Freedom is attained in relation to your ability to accept full responsibility for your actions.

You are free to kill someone as long as you have the means to do so, even in prison you are free to kill someone as long as you have the means to do so.

Freedom is paramount. I did not say that everyone has it. I said it is of paramount importance.

What this means is that it is a goal of spirit. It is of paramount importance for spiritual advancement and power.

Your first obligation to yourself is to be free and true. Only you have the power to free yourself from your self imposed prison.

If you want to trade your freedom for the privilege to kill someone, you may land in prison.

If you want to trade your freedom for the feeling of being safe, you may also do that.

Lock yourself in a padded cell where you will be safe.

People will trade their freedom and their liberty in order to feel safe. They do it all the time.

Talldub is being argumentative and silly today. He must be on the rag.

I'll leave that speciality to you

Suppose there were no rules and laws. And everyone was free to do what they wished. One persons freedom will inevitably "block" another persons freedom (e.g. two people wanting to do the same thing at the same time in the same place) so really there is no freedom, just the perception of it.

Boy !! Are you gullible!!!

freedom? US citizens are the most sedated, conforming, locked down, locked up, uptight society EVER in history... with some of the most obscenely ridiculous laws...one country ....90 000 different rules per state... nothing is unified witihin your country...

So instead of trying to discuss the specific points raised by Abra, you tell him to go pray . . . .

I think its so interesting the modalities of belief and how when confronted with logic one will resort to numerable deviations from the given points.

Everyone is free to do what they wish. (regardless of rules or laws.)

One persons freedom might "block" another persons freedom.

So who has the most freedom?

The person with the most power has the most freedom. That is the law of the jungle.

The person with more money may have more freedom.

The person who is stronger may have more freedom.

The person who obeys the law and stays out of jail may have more freedom that the one who does not and gets caught.

To say that there is "no freedom" is ridiculous.

You have to earn and maintain your freedom.

That is why wars are fought. People want to be free of dictators.

Freedom = power, independence, responsibility.

Slavery= Powerlessness, dependency, irresponsibility.

You decide what you want, you learn how to get it.

Freedom is what people want.

Freedom is what animals want.

Freedom is what the spirit wants.

Even from the point of view of an atheist it is if not insulting at least silly.

We ALL have beliefs, some of us just make sure they are founded in things we can analyze. Some just don't place faith in the unknowable.

How can we be free when we are trapped on a insignificant lump of dirt in the midst of billions upon billions of galaxies?

To be free:

If you think your are trapped, then you are trapped by your thoughts.

Realize freedom of spirit.

Soul is free.

Agree to take full responsibility for your reality.

Learn out of body projection if you want to get off of this earth.

Do as thou wilt without harming others.

Treat others as you would have them treat you.

Love them, because they may be you in your next life.

I am not here to debate. I read his comments and niether denied his reasononings or confirmed them. To do either would just be an exercise in futility as we all choose our own paths, wherever they may lead.
Logic did not bring us to this point in human existence. Logic is only an attempt to guess a final conclusion from the results of an unknown equation, in reference to the ultimate and final outcome.
It's not for me to point out errors of the mind regarding the nature of my Heavenly Father, the blessed Messiah, or the Holy Spirit. The writing is on the wall and my only obligation is to read it and accept it's divinity for myself. If others wish to ignore it, they are free to do so... Far be it from me to deny anyone's free will to reject or accept what will be their path that leads to their final fate.


Matthew 12

"30, He that is not with me is against me; and he that is not gathered with me scattereth abroad.
31, Wherefore I say unto you , All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgivin unto men: but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men.
32, And whoever speaketh a word against the the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, niether in this world, niether in the world to come.
33,Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34, Oh generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35, A good man out of the treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36, But I say unto you , That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account therof in the day of judgment.
37, For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shall be condemned."

You should at least attempt response.

Allen,

If you are not here to "debate" or discuss ideas, then you are simply here to express your opinion or to preach your gospel.

We like to discuss. If we wanted a one way communication or to be preached to we could join the appropriate thread or go to the appropriate web site.

Thank you for your contribution.

You expressed your opinion, I expressed mine. I see your opinion as no more productive than mine.
I can not debate your opinion in terms that will relate to you. I can only express my own in terms that relate to me.
You say there is no "sin, no commandments, outside of a religious organization or belief".
My opposing view is that that declaration is only true among those not yet blessed with, or those blind to the highest Laws of God.
This forum is the "general religion forum" not the athiestic/agnostic forum.
I believe I'm welcome to post my opposing views without being drawn into debate as necessarily the required response.
If you do not like my views and opinings, welcome to the club. I'm speaking and expressing myself every bit as sincerely as anyone.


If you say prove the validity of the term "sin", outside a religious context, I say that would be like defining colors to a blind man, yet the color is visable to those who see.

If you say the Ten Commandments do not apply as a meaningful concept to those who will accept no commandments but their own, I say that I accept that logic as just as meaningful and true as saying those outside the law are lawless.

If you say that "freedom is paramount", as in "the most important and vital truth", I say freedom is secondary to the final detirmination of the choices we make.

My remarks are on topic, at least as well as anyone's...


I will not be drawn into debate as to whether or not Buddha was Christ's teacher, or that what I really am is a Buddhist.
The premise is in error, so the conclusion has no merit. imo <--- which is afforded to me as a member in good standing on this particular website/forum.

Lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little?

Is that supposed to be a description of Jesus?

You must have a very low opinion of Jesus to dig up such filthy stuff on him.

If I were going to praise Jesus I would find the Best things I could about it about him and not go around flaunting the nasty demagogurey about him.

According to John, Jesus said the following:

John 12:47 "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."

See, according to John, Jesus was a nice person and would have never behaved the way Psalms suggests.

Jesus also said, "Ye are Gods".

So clearly Jesus was a pantheist according to the Bible itself.

I may not believe that Jesus as the sacrificial lamb of a hateful blood-thirsty angry God, but even I apparently have more repect for him than you do.

At least I try to put in him a good light.

"Spreading hate for Jesus' sake is such an oxymoron" - Abra

You are certainly welcome to state your apposing view and your opinion.

But if you are not willing to engage in any dialogue or discussion about it then you are stating that your position is not flexible and you don't want to talk about it.

You paint yourself as a person who has closed himself off and locked himself up inside of his own prison of belief and is not willing to consider anything else. You are one who has made up his mind and is not moving from that spot come hell or high water.

So given that, I say to you, thank you for your contribution.

Hence constructive Conversation and any chance for a mutual understanding ends.



In my "religion" freedom is paramount.

I wish to inform people that they can free themselves and they they can save themselves.

If you would rather have a savior, that is your choice.

But this is my "religion" and I have a right to be in this forum.

I simply wish to present my opposing views. Not for those who disagree with me, but rather for those who might read these postings only to hear one side's opinion...

I would never ask you to prove the validity of the term "sin" outside of religious context. I don't need any proof. It is clearly very obvious. Why would I require proof of the obvious?

It would be like asking you to prove that the sky is blue.

Those who accept the percepts of religious doctrine naturally use the term "sin." But it is when they attempt to force other people to accept this term outside of their religious notions that they are force feeding their beliefs upon others.

And I truly appreciate your contribution.
Although still desire to know your reasoning and why you believe the way you do.

That is why I like to discuss, and yes even debate.

I see no sensible reason for you to have posted the verses you've posted. They in no way support that Jesus was the son of the God of Abraham, nor that the the Bible is the word of God.

Everything that is said in these verses fits in perfectly with the idea that Jesus was a Buddhist trying to help the Jewish people see the light.

There is no blaspheme of the Holy Spirit to not believe that Jesus was the Son of the God of Abraham.

There is no blaspheme of the Holy Spirit to denounce the entire Bible as being ungodly.

The only reason that Christians think in terms of blaspheme is because they woship the Bible, instead of Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit would never have done the dastardly deeds that the Bible claims.

Clearly the Bible itself is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

Christians blaspheme against the Holy Spirit everytime they suggest that Bible speaks for it.