100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: There is no sin, there are no commandments | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
The commandments are 10 laws. This is a small sample of what the Code of Hammurabi detailed. it mentions nearly anything we call a crime today: - murder (=killing without a war-situation, without defending the own life, and without a judge ordering a death-penalty) of men by men (or wife) - and the killing of a man or wife by some animal like the oxen of men - theft of property, land, boat, things, of cattle and of men or slaves of another - there is a difference between, from whom it was stolen - robbery (= stealing with beating, killing or urging openly that person) - with the same difference, whether it was stolen from a private's property or from the King's property or from the sanctuary's property (this had always the most high degree of penalty) - adultery with a woman of a citizen - sex with another's husband or wife - sex of a man with a man - sex of a person with an animal - sex with a daughter (virgin) living in her father's household - to bungle a house to build for another (if it crashes and hurts lifes) - here is a difference, wo is killed by that building: if it kills the wife of the houseowner, the wife of the architect is to be killed - if a child, then a child, if the owner, then the architect himself - treachery against the own governement - especially interesting: if - by chance - a pub owner(ess) hears people sitting there and planning a treachery and fails to tell it to the authorities and it becomes wellknown, that the hearer did not tell, this one is to kill for treachery him/herself (the most of them seem to have been wifes) - swearing false if to give a testimony in a court of judges - blaspheming or pillorying the own religion (even a stranger was not allowed to curse, blame or blaspheme his own foreign religion, judges or state while visiting this other land) - and not the religion, judges or state-communities of Babel while being here as a visitor - hurting or wounding another person - the makers of remedies and the doctor's treatments had some laws, not to wrong the clients and not to hurt or poison somebody severely - using false measures on the market, different weights for different buyers etc. - disobeying the own house-father, disrespecting the own parents or worse: to beat or curse openly a respect-person - disobeying the decisions of a court of judges (even abroad) - to accuse another person falsely (if in a court, the penality is the same as for that accused crime) - to use witchcraft was forbidden - the death penalities ordered by these judges were water, fire, sword or rope - other legal possibilties were slashing and letting pay a fee - they had not a prison for a penality in ancient times, but a form of prison in the house of the lender, if another did lend some money (or money-worth property) but did not pay back - the lender had to feed his "guest", with "bead and water"-soup, or similar - but had to bring him with on 3 market-times, going behind him, with a rope tied on his hands, another one could free him by paying the debt - if a year had passed, maybe, and nobody freed that debitor, the lender could kill him or send him over the borders as "dead"  Most of this stuff is what any society would need to function.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right. Point?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well you would need to ask Moses I guess because he wrote up the Commandments MUCH later. There might be a case for copyright infringement there. You could represent the Babylonians.    The laws of all societies have always been shaped by the social values of that society. What defines the social values of a society?It has always been religion. Yes, I never denied that. Clearly a Pagan spirituality in this case. However the Christians routinely attempt to take credit. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sat 01/03/09 06:21 AM
|
|
Well you would need to ask Moses I guess because he wrote up the Commandments MUCH later. There might be a case for copyright infringement there. You could represent the Babylonians. The laws of all societies have always been shaped by the social values of that society. What defines the social values of a society?It has always been religion. Maybe some of those laws were there to keep the govt. from being too arrogant & intrusive. Funny how it's always the ones who complain about Christians being in their lives that fight tooth & nail in the courts to get special rights that intrude on the rest of us. Like those atheists & gays for example. They can already live but they don't want the "letting others live" alone. Let's not mention all the societal woes they bring upon the rest of us. How about all the govt. funding they ask for as well? I says it's them who have the control freak mentality. Not to mention the bigoted hateful attitudes toward anything that doesn't agree with them. Small minded indeed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/03/09 06:40 AM
|
|
Homosexuals are not "evil" or bad. You should not say such things about your fellow humans. Doesnt that bother you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well you would need to ask Moses I guess because he wrote up the Commandments MUCH later. There might be a case for copyright infringement there. You could represent the Babylonians. The laws of all societies have always been shaped by the social values of that society. What defines the social values of a society?It has always been religion. Maybe some of those laws were there to keep the govt. from being too arrogant & intrusive. Funny how it's always the ones who complain about Christians being in their lives that fight tooth & nail in the courts to get special rights that intrude on the rest of us. Like those atheists & gays for example. They can already live but they don't want the "letting others live" alone. Let's not mention all the societal woes they bring upon the rest of us. How about all the govt. funding they ask for as well? I says it's them who have the control freak mentality. Not to mention the bigoted hateful attitudes toward anything that doesn't agree with them. Small minded indeed. I don't know of any court cases initiated by atheists or gays for "special rights" that "intrude" on others or the rights of others. Please site the cases you are referring to. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right. Point? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/03/09 06:37 PM
|
|
Buddy Christ!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so your telling me the men that molested me and raped me havent sinned against me and that they havent violated me...without laws in place we would not know what is right and wrong..i think u need to start searching for the right answers which can only be found in God...without Gods wisdom and his knowledge u will always lack understanding..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 01/03/09 09:08 PM
|
|
so your telling me the men that molested me and raped me havent sinned against me and that they havent violated me...without laws in place we would not know what is right and wrong..i think u need to start searching for the right answers which can only be found in God...without Gods wisdom and his knowledge u will always lack understanding.. Clearly it is you who don't understand the point of this thread. Have you even read this thread? I have nothing against laws. If someone committed a crime against you they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.... without forgiveness or pardon in my opinion. The point of my post is all about semantics and the meaning of the term "sin" being attached and owned by a religious doctrine, and people who think that the ten commandments are God's law. I think they are guidelines, not laws. People make laws. God grants free will and his law is the law of cause and effect. For people who do not subscribe to that religious doctrine, the word "sin" simply has no meaning because it is about disobedience of God, not about breaking the law of society. Society enforces the law. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I will add, that if you are a Christian, then yes, the word "sin" has meaning for you. A apologize if I did not make that clear. I write from my own perspective. I personally do not recognize the term "sin" as having meaning because it means to disobey God, and most people's idea of God's law is the Bible and the ten commandments which I do not recognize. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so your telling me the men that molested me and raped me havent sinned against me and that they havent violated me...without laws in place we would not know what is right and wrong..i think u need to start searching for the right answers which can only be found in God...without Gods wisdom and his knowledge u will always lack understanding.. AMEN to that!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 01/05/09 03:55 AM
|
|
Malachi 2
2:3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So if a man has never read the law Doesn't know it exists and decides to murder someone that man is not a criminal? I mean the law is in place even if he has yet to read it. You know he's a criminal because you know the law However he has never read the law so he doesn't understand what the term is all he knows is it holds a negative context So the term criminal now only applies to you, because he has yet to see the law He may argue he's not a criminal because he never seen the law. You can replace the word 'criminal' with 'sin' Same difference. JMHO The point I am making, is that "SIN" AND "CRIME" are not the same thing. Crimes are laws made by a society. In a society, ignorance of the laws are no excuse they tell us. But that does not apply to "sin" because ignorance of what is a sin is rampant. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on what a sin is. "Sin" means to disobey someone's concept of what they believe is God's law or God's will. It has to do with religion, and opinions ~ not law. It is religion based and it depends on the belief in a God. Society's laws do not depend on the belief in a God. There is the difference between a "sinner" and a "criminal." I am being very general in using the ten commandments as an example. Assuming that most peoples idea of God's law is the "ten commandments" (Which I say are really just "suggestions" due to "free will." HERE I WILL REPLACE THE WORD "THE LAW" WITH "COMMANDMENTS." And the word "criminal" with "sinner." See how that comes out in the wash. So if a man has never read the commandments Doesn't know they exist and decides to murder someone that man is not a sinner? I mean the commandments are in place even if he has yet to read them. You know he's a sinner because you know the commandments However he has never read the commandments so he doesn't understand what the term is all he knows is it holds a negative context So the term sinner now only applies to you, because he has yet to see the commandments He may argue he's not a sinner because he never seen the commandments. I am sure the above makes perfect sense to Christians and to people who do accept the ten commandments as "God's law." But "sin" is more than just "breaking a commandment." It actually means to "disobey God," not just to break one or more of the ten commandments. But you cannot "disobey God" if you accept the premise of free will, and you cannot "disobey god" if there is no god and you cannot accept the premise that God has laws if you don't believe in God. (The only law in place that assures justice is the law of cause and effect. ) sorry it took me so long to reply, but been busy. I'm fully aware that criminal and sinner are two different things. And you do understand that I was talking about God's law not actual law just using that as an example. So back to the example you say if you don't beleive there is a God then you can't disobey him right? well same thing with the criminal Say he doesn't beleive there is a president or a congress that has set these laws in place. He's never seen a president, has no clue what a congress is...therefore he can't be guilty because it would be impossible for those people to exist...after all he doesn't know them, he may have hundreds of people telling him he exists...but he doesn't think he does. but you KNOW that these laws exists...you've seen them..you try to convince the criminal that these things are set in place and you are warning him not to do certian things because there is consequences for it...he still doesn't beleive you...he does stuff against the law all the time and you keep telling him he will eventually pay one day when caught...but you did your part warned him, let him know they are in place, now it is up to his FREE WILL on whether or not he chooses to listen to you. So when he gets caught and says i didn't know? you know he knew...you told him. But he had a choice(free will) on whether to listen or not. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Mon 01/05/09 03:53 PM
|
|
The OP actually deactivated unfortunately. She will be missed.
Anyway, I would still need to insist that the word "sin" carries absolutely zero weight OUTSIDE of the context of religious doctrine and those that wish to allow it some sort of meaning in their day to day lives. You can tell me that sex out of wedlock is a "sin" supposedly and that I am going to hell until you are blue in the face. That will not change the fact that the word "sin" is meaningless to a person who does not adhere to this particular religious doctrine. It simply has no contextual relevance in my life. However, that does not mean to imply that there is no overlap. What I (as a non-Christian) accept as a "Law" that governs society may also be considered a sin to you as a Christian. Take murder as the most obvious example of this. I wont kill another human being because based on my OWN moral compass I know it is wrong to take the life of another. I wont do it unless forced or in self defense. So in that case "Law" and "Sin" do cross. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
the commandments make sense to me even if you're not a christian
just because you're not a christian doesn't mean you can't be a good person with morals
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So are you saying that people only have free will when it comes to sin? How did you come to that conclusion? About "free will" I said that if "free will" is a fact, then there can be NO COMMANDMENTS. There can only be suggestions or guidelines. You make it sound like free will means to do wrong, but it is also the right to do what is right. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
the commandments make sense to me even if you're not a christian just because you're not a christian doesn't mean you can't be a good person with morals Many would make the argument that in spite of being a Christian, one could still be a good person.
|
|
|
|
|
