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| Topic: There is no sin, there are no commandments | |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 01/02/09 11:46 PM
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L.W. I don't care what you think about some people here. I don't appreciate you hi-jacking this thread with your rants and labeling. You are certainly entitled to your opinions and you are free to express them, but start your own thread. You are off topic and out of line with your bigoted remarks.  since when threads are owned? i'm just expressing an honest opinion after several observations of the behaviors, and I'm just posting my opinions wherever i feel like it. That is the reason why this is known as a public forum. Unless it has changed while i have not being here. The layout and the rules have changed a bit. If you are posting, you are supposed to try to stay on the topic of the thread or conversation, not just jump in and start ranting and causing disruption. It's only being polite. Do you know how to be polite? You used to be polite. What happened? Are you having a bad day? Dear unpolite would be saying x-person is rightist christian fundie and y-person is a neofascist nonbeliever. making a general comment upon my observations and reflection with regard how some people handle these threads is not being unpolite. It's a mere observation of a fact or set of fact, and not of a person or a set of persons. Your opinion of what is polite and not polite is different than mine then. But I am now very interested in your labeling system. So far, you have: 1. neofacist nonbeliever 2. fundie 3. Rightist Christian fundie Please amuse me with some more of your labels and tell me how would you label yourself? I am truly very interested. |
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 Mirror blowing off steam?  
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/03/09 03:35 AM
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Since the topic of reincarnation had come up, I have a question to pose to the Christians specifically about that. On another thread a Christian man is trying to tell me that animals dont posses souls, only humans are born with spirit. Is that a universal belief held amongst Christians? Does that mean that you dont feel it is possible that any other animal besides man has a soul to reach heaven once it ceases to live>? If the answer is yes, how do you justify that?
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sat 01/03/09 04:22 AM
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People talk of "free will" but they don't practice it. If free will has any meaning or truth at all there can only be suggestions. No such thing as commandments. These are guidelines which were later called "commandments" by men who wanted more control over the flock. There is no "sin" as the term is only owned by religious doctrine to describe disobedience of God. Outside of a religious organization or belief, the word "sin" is meaningless. There is no sin. There are no commandments. There is only freedom. Freedom is paramount. Ah freedom. Is everyone free to do what they want? Free from consequence? There is no sin but there are consequences. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Yes, everyone is free to do what ever they want. But certainly not free from consequences. Accept the responsibility for the consequences before you decide to act. You are free, but you will pay the consequences of your actions. Then you're not truly free, are you? Freedom is attained in relation to your ability to accept full responsibility for your actions. You are free to kill someone as long as you have the means to do so, even in prison you are free to kill someone as long as you have the means to do so. Freedom is paramount. I did not say that everyone has it. I said it is of paramount importance. What this means is that it is a goal of spirit. It is of paramount importance for spiritual advancement and power. Your first obligation to yourself is to be free and true. Only you have the power to free yourself from your self imposed prison. If you want to trade your freedom for the privilege to kill someone, you may land in prison. If you want to trade your freedom for the feeling of being safe, you may also do that. Lock yourself in a padded cell where you will be safe. People will trade their freedom and their liberty in order to feel safe. They do it all the time. Suppose there were no rules and laws. And everyone was free to do what they wished. One persons freedom will inevitably "block" another persons freedom (e.g. two people wanting to do the same thing at the same time in the same place) so really there is no freedom, just the perception of it. CHAOS! That is exactly what Morning said it would turn into. This is what happens when right living is turned on its head. That's what happens when the lines get blurred. People forget that along with freedom comes responsiblity...without which causes doom. So when God says "the wages of sin is death," I guess we can take that to mean we will meet with our own demise. Some people want to keep their hand in the fire no matter how many times they get burned. No matter they just don't want to hear it. Very sad... ...but YOU have a nice day!  
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Alright, well I might just start another thread then about the reincarnation stuff and animals.
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AllenAqua said:
Cool Pic Krimsa... You guys are going to really hate me when I figure out how to post pics.tongue Okay well the cheating way to post photos is you merely take the location url and then on the front you put [ img ] url [/img ] but leave out the spaces. But you need to be careful doing that because its called "hot linking" and I think it makes it so the server that the site was on that you stole the photo from now has to utilize that much more bandwidth to sustain the photo on another site. Dont do that. Get one of those photo swapping free accounts and then place the photo there and then use that location URL. |
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sat 01/03/09 04:35 AM
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God is a touchy subject, you're going to get a rise out of people when you start spouting derogatory remarks. The kicker is if you're living in western society you operate within the realm of JudeoChristendom. Our whole culture is shaped around Abrahamic laws and morals. Deny whatever you want, but we are all products of it. You aren't as much of an individual as you would like to think. You are exactly correct. It's ingrained in all of us no matter how people try to say no...or fight it. Most people who are born here & live here do appreciate their quality of life because of how we were raised. That would be our reasonable service in this life. Trying to change that now is what really brings on the misery. With all the little things people want to leave out about the Judaen/Christian teachings...even the devil worshippers, pagans & not so new agers all want something to believe in...that higher power. We are all born with an instinct of God. ALL of us... that's why I think atheists are the most decieved people on the planet. They lie mostly to themselves. |
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That is however not true. Just as when the Christian right attempts to espouse that "this nation was built on Christian principle." Also fallacy.
Our laws were adapted and handed down from ancient Babylon in the form of the Code of Hammurabi. |
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That is however not true. Just as when the Christian right attempts to espouse that "this nation was built on Christian principle." Also fallacy. Our laws were adapted and handed down from ancient Babylon in the form of the Code of Hammurabi.  And who handed those down to Hammurabi?
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/03/09 04:55 AM
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Probably one of their Pagan deities. Who do you think? Like usual, everything started off non-Christian and was hijacked much like Christmas.
 Hammurabi (ruled ca. 1796 BC – 1750 BC) believed that he was chosen by the gods to deliver the law to his people. Im guessing Marduk might have been a big influence on him but I would need to look and I cant find my glasses |
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Probably one of their Pagan deities. Who do you think? Like usual, everything started off non-Christian and was hijacked much like Christmas. Hammurabi (ruled ca. 1796 BC – 1750 BC) believed that he was chosen by the gods to deliver the law to his people. Im guessing Marduk might have been a big influence on him but I would need to look and I cant find my glasses  So his inspiration was religious in nature. Very interesting.
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Yes of course. Pagan influenced. Yet not Christian. Interesting. That would not seem to be the story that most Christians will tell you.
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Yes of course. Pagan influenced. Yet not Christian. Interesting. That would not seem to be the story that most Christians will tell you. So the laws of men were divinely inspired? Very interesting
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sat 01/03/09 05:50 AM
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If you choose to accept the notion of "divine inspiration" then yes. King Hammurabi did as all of these early civilizations. They were quite mystical and superstitious. The Babylonians were also Polytheistic. Hammurabi gave the Law to his people based on what he thought the Pagan god Marduk was telling him.
Our modern day law was in no way shape or form fashioned after the ten commandments. Based on the OT, some might say that was a good thing, myself included. |
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If you choose to accept the notion of "divine inspiration" then yes. King Hammurabi did as all of these early civilizations. They were quite mystical and superstitious. The Babylonians were also Polytheistic. Hammurabi gave the Law to his people based on what he thought the Pagan god Marduk was telling him. Our modern day law was in no way shape or form fashioned after the ten commandments. Based on the OT, some might say that was a good thing, myself included. Indeed  I wonder how many of the Ten Commandments are actual modern day laws? Not very many
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Sat 01/03/09 06:01 AM
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If you choose to accept the notion of "divine inspiration" then yes. King Hammurabi did as all of these early civilizations. They were quite mystical and superstitious. The Babylonians were also Polytheistic. Hammurabi gave the Law to his people based on what he thought the Pagan god Marduk was telling him. Our modern day law was in no way shape or form fashioned after the ten commandments. Based on the OT, some might say that was a good thing, myself included. Indeed I wonder how many of the Ten Commandments are actual modern day laws? Not very many They are since they are all summed up in love ...thou shalt not covet... As is God's love toward humanity as expressed in man to his fellow men. |
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Well you would need to ask Moses I guess because he wrote up the Commandments MUCH later. There might be a case for copyright infringement there. You could represent the Babylonians.
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If you choose to accept the notion of "divine inspiration" then yes. King Hammurabi did as all of these early civilizations. They were quite mystical and superstitious. The Babylonians were also Polytheistic. Hammurabi gave the Law to his people based on what he thought the Pagan god Marduk was telling him. Our modern day law was in no way shape or form fashioned after the ten commandments. Based on the OT, some might say that was a good thing, myself included. Indeed I wonder how many of the Ten Commandments are actual modern day laws? Not very many They are since they are all summed up in love ...thou shalt not covet... As is God's love toward humanity as expressed in man to his fellow men. Interesting
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The commandments are 10 laws. This is a small sample of what the Code of Hammurabi detailed.
it mentions nearly anything we call a crime today: - murder (=killing without a war-situation, without defending the own life, and without a judge ordering a death-penalty) of men by men (or wife) - and the killing of a man or wife by some animal like the oxen of men - theft of property, land, boat, things, of cattle and of men or slaves of another - there is a difference between, from whom it was stolen - robbery (= stealing with beating, killing or urging openly that person) - with the same difference, whether it was stolen from a private's property or from the King's property or from the sanctuary's property (this had always the most high degree of penalty) - adultery with a woman of a citizen - sex with another's husband or wife - sex of a man with a man - sex of a person with an animal - sex with a daughter (virgin) living in her father's household - to bungle a house to build for another (if it crashes and hurts lifes) - here is a difference, wo is killed by that building: if it kills the wife of the houseowner, the wife of the architect is to be killed - if a child, then a child, if the owner, then the architect himself - treachery against the own governement - especially interesting: if - by chance - a pub owner(ess) hears people sitting there and planning a treachery and fails to tell it to the authorities and it becomes wellknown, that the hearer did not tell, this one is to kill for treachery him/herself (the most of them seem to have been wifes) - swearing false if to give a testimony in a court of judges - blaspheming or pillorying the own religion (even a stranger was not allowed to curse, blame or blaspheme his own foreign religion, judges or state while visiting this other land) - and not the religion, judges or state-communities of Babel while being here as a visitor - hurting or wounding another person - the makers of remedies and the doctor's treatments had some laws, not to wrong the clients and not to hurt or poison somebody severely - using false measures on the market, different weights for different buyers etc. - disobeying the own house-father, disrespecting the own parents or worse: to beat or curse openly a respect-person - disobeying the decisions of a court of judges (even abroad) - to accuse another person falsely (if in a court, the penality is the same as for that accused crime) - to use witchcraft was forbidden - the death penalities ordered by these judges were water, fire, sword or rope - other legal possibilties were slashing and letting pay a fee - they had not a prison for a penality in ancient times, but a form of prison in the house of the lender, if another did lend some money (or money-worth property) but did not pay back - the lender had to feed his "guest", with "bead and water"-soup, or similar - but had to bring him with on 3 market-times, going behind him, with a rope tied on his hands, another one could free him by paying the debt - if a year had passed, maybe, and nobody freed that debitor, the lender could kill him or send him over the borders as "dead" |
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Well you would need to ask Moses I guess because he wrote up the Commandments MUCH later. There might be a case for copyright infringement there. You could represent the Babylonians. The laws of all societies have always been shaped by the social values of that society. What defines the social values of a society?It has always been religion.
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