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| Topic: Gay Marriage should be legal! | |
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I was raised to believe that marriage was an act of commitment to someone that you loved and wished to spend your life with. I was raised to believe that marriage is a union of souls, yet more and more I find that marriage is a union of genitalia. I am saddened to see that it has come to this. I wish to find that special someone to share my life with and I can tell you now that it won't be with a woman. Sorry ladies but youre woman parts do nothing for me. Now if you want to talk movies or shopping i'm all yours lol I hope that you find that special person someday. 
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The twin studies were about twins adopted at birth by different families. They found twins that were both gay and raised in different environments. Nature vs. Nurture. I think what your brother did was pretty common back in the 50's, 60's and 70's. My Uncle (by marriage) married my Aunt in the 60's and later came out of the closet. Wow, I watched a documentary on the gay channel, it was about a family of 5 kids, all gay, and the mother, a devout christian refused to accept it. Most mothers tend to wonder what they did to create such a situation. And it's hard to get them to understand it had nothing to do with upbringing. I think if it had been accepted long ago, families would not have been torn apart in marraiges where gay men and women thought they had to marry to do the right thing, and it only causes problems down the road. Sad... |
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In today’s society gays have all the rights of any other group of people. There it is, that familiar arrogance of some straight folks. When you have gotten a real education let us know, we do not have the same rights or we would not be having this discussion but then I would not expect you to understand that with the lack of knowledge you show here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand, the tax laws and property laws and many other laws work different for those who are labeled as "single" I know this, because I am a "single". Or at least many state laws are also label gays as "single", since they aren't married, because of the laws about what counts as marriage. Not sure if I made any sense here..  You made sense. |
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Edited by
Atlantis75
on
Fri 12/05/08 08:34 PM
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In today’s society gays have all the rights of any other group of people. There it is, that familiar arrogance of some straight folks. When you have gotten a real education let us know, we do not have the same rights or we would not be having this discussion but then I would not expect you to understand that with the lack of knowledge you show here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I understand, the tax laws and property laws and many other laws work different for those who are labeled as "single" I know this, because I am a "single". Or at least many state laws are also label gays as "single", since they aren't married, because of the laws about what counts as marriage. Not sure if I made any sense here.. You made sense. LOL, thanks..I live in CT, plenty of gay people here, I used to work as a sub-contractor and I talked to many of them. |
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Yes there are many things we can not enjoy that a straight couple can. I own my home, and I deliberatly had to make my partner part of that deed so that if I die it automatically goes back to her, so both our names are on that deed. My family or hers could not take our home out from under us. But there are so many things that straights enjoy as married couples that gays can not have by law. Only someone caring enough to learn that would know.
We do not want special laws made just for us as we are accused of by those who want to stir trouble for our community, but it's hard to fight that kind of strong opposition and down right lies about what we really want. |
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Women what these types traditional values back because it is the way things are supposed to be.
The christian conservatives may want those values back but I can assure you that the modern woman does not. I have no problem with you being head of household in your own family, your wife will have to be willing to handle that. But I don't know many women willing to go back in time, I won't that is for sure. My partner and I don't play those roles, we see what needs to be done and we do it, that's it. No fighting or role playing nessessary. I can tear my home down and rebuild it myself, I can break down my computer and rebuild it myself. If my family taught me anything they taught me how to be self reliant. I think any grown man who is secure in who he is would value a woman that can cross the gender barriers. I know women in my own neighborhood that wish their men could cook or fix things. They come to me to fix things around their homes. There is value in evolution my friend, but if you prefer tradition, it doesn't bother me as long as you don't try to bring us all back into it. |
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Edited by
Atlantis75
on
Fri 12/05/08 08:47 PM
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Yes there are many things we can not enjoy that a straight couple can. I own my home, and I deliberatly had to make my partner part of that deed so that if I die it automatically goes back to her, so both our names are on that deed. My family or hers could not take our home out from under us. But there are so many things that straights enjoy as married couples that gays can not have by law. Only someone caring enough to learn that would know. We do not want special laws made just for us as we are accused of by those who want to stir trouble for our community, but it's hard to fight that kind of strong opposition and down right lies about what we really want. I think, when the law made about the marriage vs single and "head of household" had to do with the fact, that hetero couples would most likely have kids and there are always extra bills and payments when it comes to having a family. Things are changed now (are they?), some places since gay couple can adapt kids and still live as a family with the difference of both parents are the same sex. Well of course, this would cause many to object this, regarding how this kid will grow up with not having a real mom or dad..that I think needs to be examined and see if this really change anything about the kid's psychological world and view..whatever..not to mention the religious camps going after this, due to marriage being something like a holy commitment or whatever is the definition of this.. anyway, just throwing my two cents into this. I personally don't object gay marriage, I also got a gay relative so I might be biased somewhat, not to mention I am more worried about the kids in hetero-marriage, which don't last and the kid ends up growing up with either of the 2 or even worse, being put into some sort of a juvenile institution. |
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I can only speak from gay woman families and how their children came out. They came out with a great deal of empathy for others, they came out stable and happy, that is my experience.
I started my life out in an orphanage for the first 4 years of my life until my mother married my step father. I wished they had left me there, so I might have found a family that really wanted me, things migh have been different, yet I dont regret it all that much because I am able to see things from different perspectives than I might had I been in another situation. It's sad that that kids who really need homes will no longer be able to get them in the states that have banned gay adoption. I don't know why people assume that gays come from gay families, but unfortunately some do think that. If I adopted I would absolutely find men to interact with my kids despite that fact that I think children who grow up with love and caring turn out fine even if men are not living in the same house. I think men have something to bring to the table just as women do, so I would go out of my way for them to have that influence. |
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You know, I was thinking. I don't know why men are so afraid of women being androgenous but many are. I think that women have male traits just as men have female traits and we seem to feel the need to go out of our way proving otherwise.
I love to see a man be a man but I also love to see him not be afraid to take on a traditionally female role. Now that is a man to me, someone not afraid to be a whole person. It's almost like we are ashamed of our male and female characteristics if they dare show up on the opposite sex, yet I find a woman who is androgenous very attractive, more so than a woman trying so hard to be female. Or a man trying to hard to be the man society expects of him. Men make jokes about women trying to be men, so? Whats wrong with a woman having those atributes, and what's wrong with a man having some atributes of the female? Macho men personally bore me, but a man that is secure in himself can be who he is with out fear of ridicule is very attractive. I don't know that I am being very clear here because I am begining to tire, but just a thought. We seem to be heading backwards sometimes and I hate to see that. Maybe if men and women had more respect for one another and what they are truly capable of, they wouldn't be so threatened by gays. |
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You know, I was thinking. I don't know why men are so afraid of women being androgenous but many are. I think that women have male traits just as men have female traits and we seem to feel the need to go out of our way proving otherwise. I love to see a man be a man but I also love to see him not be afraid to take on a traditionally female role. Now that is a man to me, someone not afraid to be a whole person. It's almost like we are ashamed of our male and female characteristics if they dare show up on the opposite sex, yet I find a woman who is androgenous very attractive, more so than a woman trying so hard to be female. Or a man trying to hard to be the man society expects of him. Men make jokes about women trying to be men, so? Whats wrong with a woman having those atributes, and what's wrong with a man having some atributes of the female? Macho men personally bore me, but a man that is secure in himself can be who he is with out fear of ridicule is very attractive. I get what you're trying to say. I too understand. Speaking from the middle stand point in most of these situations is very hard for me sometimes because it'll come out too strongly. As a BISEXUAL (though typically I am attracted to males over females) person I am often attracted to people who don't try to be either manly or womanly. It's attractive when a person is just themselves regardless of gender roles. |
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I do not believe gay marriage should be legal... I just believe in the traditional values where marriage is between a man and a woman. Marriage should be between a man and a woman that is the way I was raised and that is the way things should be. Life was better when family’s were more tightly fit and gay marriages only make things worse. Let’s face it, who was responsible for starting the tradition of marriage?... It wasn’t the gay community. are you saying your wants are more important than the rights of another per the constitution democracy ie the WANTS of the majority TRAMPLING the RIGHTS of the minority and the u s is not a democracy for that very reason I believe in family and you can go on and on about the constitution and rights all day. Any way... if gays can't marry does that really mean they have so badly? It’s not like gay's have to live double lives any more or face the same types of discrimination or abuse they did 50 years ago. In today’s society gays have all the rights of any other group of people. Gays are open about their sexuality and relationships hold jobs in our community and are accepted by many people. Marriage was not started by the Gay community and that fact should end this argument! It’s not about rights it’s about getting their way and seeing how far they can go. In a way its about gaining Power. yeah gaining power...you know kinda like the women's rights movement... Exactly... I believe the faminst movement hurt the family structure completely... Not saying that man is all powerful and the women are lower then men. I love and respect the women in my life as did my father and my grandfathers. In my family the Father was the head of the household but it was never grandpas house its was GRANDMAS. The man was the provider but is the woman was who kept things together. Women what these types traditional values back because it is the way things are supposed to be. Two things here... Are you a woman? Do you have a vagina? Because if you don't, you shouldn't be talking for us like you know what we want in a family or how we believe things (like our values) are. Simple as that. And secondly, The womans movement was something that's very important to many females. It GAVE us the right to choose! For instance to choose to marry a individual who, like you, pressumes to speak for my wants, as a woman, when he doesn't have the parts that would classify him as one. Thereby making any of his assumptions incorrect as he has NOT experienced life from a female perspective. So, the next time you choose to do battle on an established forum topic, perhaps you'd like to read every page all the way through and then think awhile, very carefully on what your statement should be. |
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Lindyy believe it or not, some gays don't like the parades either. I don't because I think it sets us back. If you want to get people to understand being gay I hardly think one can do that by flaunting sexuality and scaring people to death with it. At the same time I have a certain admiration for their courage to do what they do. Just as Fredie did in his own way. He didn't let society ruin his dream, but I think he would have been so much happier in his life had he been able to find true love, that was after all what he wanted. I don't think he went about it in the right way, but then who am I. And I think at that time everyone was struggling with sexuality, both gay and straight. By the way I didn't mean flame in the way you thought I mean. It's an expression, not a insult. I think if we humans never learned to be so uptight about sexuality and our bodies in the first place we wouldn't be so absolutely obsessed with it now. But what I see as human societal evolution and growing pains today, other's see as a threat to world order. That's unfortunate... How well did you follow/study Freddie? |
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Yes there are many things we can not enjoy that a straight couple can. I own my home, and I deliberatly had to make my partner part of that deed so that if I die it automatically goes back to her, so both our names are on that deed. My family or hers could not take our home out from under us. But there are so many things that straights enjoy as married couples that gays can not have by law. Only someone caring enough to learn that would know. We do not want special laws made just for us as we are accused of by those who want to stir trouble for our community, but it's hard to fight that kind of strong opposition and down right lies about what we really want. There are many things a gay/lesbian can do concerning their 'partner.' I know, I am a legal secretary......sex plays no role in MANY legal matters.....i.e. you can leave your estate to anyone you chose....have whomever you want for your executor, executrix, beneficiaries.....now I must add that different states can have different laws....I am referring to Pennsylvania....you can make anyone you chose your 'beneficiary' to anything.....you both can buy a house together with both names on deed so both legally own it....and on and on...... gays and lesbians when it comes to taxes are treated the same as I, a single person, gets treated.... so....from what I see...... about the only MAJOR disadvantage is not being entitled to health insurance coverage as male and female married couples are entitled to...not sure about HIPPA and people being hospitalized and entitled to medical records/information....they have gotten very strict on that.....when my father was dying it was like pulling teeth to find out what was wrong....and I had Power of Attorney......both property and health...... WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY....IF YOU TRULY WANT TO GET MATTERS TAKEN CARE OF LEGALLY.... Lindyy 
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Should Freddie been allowed to be married?
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Edited by
Lindyy
on
Fri 12/05/08 11:18 PM
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Should Freddie been allowed to be married? TO ANOTHER GAY MAN - NO! AND, he had NO desire to be MARRIED TO A GAY MAN.....: In the early 1970s Mercury had a long-term relationship with a girlfriend named Mary Austin (whom he had met through guitarist Brian May). He lived with Austin for many years. However, by the mid-1970s, the singer began an affair with a male record executive at Elektra Records; this ultimately resulted in the end of his relationship with Austin.[40] Mercury and Austin nevertheless remained close friends through the years, with Mercury often referring to her as his only true friend. In a 1985 interview, Mercury said of Austin, "All my lovers asked me why they couldn't replace Mary [Austin], but it's simply impossible. The only friend I've got is Mary, and I don't want anybody else. To me, she was my common-law wife. To me, it was a marriage. We believe in each other, that's enough for me."[41] He also wrote several songs about Austin, the most notable of which is "Love of My Life". Mercury was also the godfather of Mary's eldest son, Richard.[33] By 1980, Mercury began to frequently visit gay bathhouses and clubs where he met many short-term partners.[42] By 1985 he began another long-term relationship with a hairdresser named Jim Hutton. Hutton, who himself tested HIV-positive in 1990,[43] lived with Mercury for the last six years of his life, nursed him during his illness and was present at his bedside when he died. Freddie also left the vast amount of his Estate to Mary..... Lindyy
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Now, to address the actual topic- Because I did read every page AND every entry in this thread.
Marriage historically is not about love and was about possession "to have and to hold" coming first in those traditional vows. It was only recently that it became about love. Though in many parts of the world love is still ignored completely when it comes to marriage. Before anyone starts their Bible thumping at me I'll let you know my beliefs on that. Marriage was around before the Bible- and therefore it does not stand to count FACTUALLY that it was created by God (though it very well could have been). As many of us who have cared to learn about it- the stories in the Bible were passed from generation to generation as many of them are supposed to have occured before the written word. So, it stands to reason LOGICALLY that many messages that these stories contained were lost along the way (a lot like that game called telephone). I don't believe that anywhere in the Bible does it say that homosexuality is wrong. (By the way "Bible thumper" is not a compliment. It's an insult insinuating that a person is quoting parts of the Bible to suit their arguement. Which is why I won't quote it. I don't feel the need to insult the topic at hand by doing so.) Gay marriage should be legal. If you are not gay or have no empathy for people who are based solely on a religious standpoint you're just being a butthead- yeah I went there! You are not looking at it properly. You're not thinking about how you would feel in the other persons shoes. If you were a homosexual and couldn't get married I bet you'd feel pretty upset about the whole thing, especially if you had a partner who you really loved. Ignore the sexual orientation and the religion for a minute and THINK how you might FEEL if you couldn't get married to the person you love! That's all it comes down to. Not religion, not politics, or the degradation of the family moral. It comes down to the choice to marry for love- the person you love (providing this person is of course a consenting adult of the human variety). And doesn't everyone deserve that right? |
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The lyrics to "Don't stop me now" by Queen
Intro: Tonight I'm gonna have myself a real good time I feel ali la la la live and the world turnin' inside out, yeah, and floating around in ectasy. So don't stop me now. Don't stop me'cause I'm havin' a good time, having a good time. Vers 1: I'm a shooting star leaping trough the sky, like a tiger, defying the laws of gravity. I'm a racing car, passing by like lady Godiva. I'm gonna go, go, go. There's no stoppin' me. I'm burning through the sky, yeah. Two hundred degrees, thats why they call me mister Fahrenheit. I'm trav'ling at the speed of light. I wanna make a supersonic man out of you. Chorus: Don't stop me now,I'm havin' such a good time, I'm havin a ball. Don't stop me now, if you wanna have a good time, just give me a call. Don't stop me now. Don't stop me now. I don't wanna stop at all. Vers 2: I'm a rocket ship on my way to mars, on a colision course. I'm a satellite, I'm out of control, I'm a sex machine ready to reload, like an atom bomb, about to oh, oh, oh oh, oh, explode. I'm burning through the sky, yeah. Two hundred degrees, thats why they call me mister Fahrenheit.I'm trav'ling at the speed of light. I wanna make a supersonic woman of you. Interlude: Don't stop me, Don't stop me, Don't stop me , Don't stop me, Don't stop me, ooh, ooh, ooh, Don't stop me, have good time, good time. Don't stop me, Don't stop me, Ah! Vers 3: (instrumental) Chorus: Don't stop me now,I'm havin' such a good time, I'm havin a ball. Don't stop me now, if you wanna have a good time, just give me a call. Don't stop me now. Don't stop me now. I don't wanna stop at all. Coda: La la la la la (etc.) I believe that our beloved Freddy was rather sneaky don't you? And did in his own many ways promote freedom of choice in sexuality in his music. If you don't believe me go read some more of Queen's lyrics on www.elyrics.net |
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To me, marrige is simply a tradition of the Christian churches for couples who are in love and vow to stay together. So in that light; gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because it goes against the bible and is considered a sin by most high ranking Bishops.
But i do also believe that gays should get the same benefits as marriage, like tax breaks, and other things that come with it (never been married so i don't know what all happens). I think people are more scared that their tradition will mean nothing and feel let down if the churches allowed gay marriage in a church. Maybe instead of calling it gay marriage they should call it "gay binding" or "gay coupling" and people won't get so heated about it. Also, Freddie Mercury was the greatest singer in Rock and Roll history 
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Edited by
adj4u
on
Sat 12/06/08 12:08 AM
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Now, to address the actual topic- Because I did read every page AND every entry in this thread. Marriage historically is not about love and was about possession "to have and to hold" coming first in those traditional vows. It was only recently that it became about love. Though in many parts of the world love is still ignored completely when it comes to marriage. Before anyone starts their Bible thumping at me I'll let you know my beliefs on that. Marriage was around before the Bible- and therefore it does not stand to count FACTUALLY that it was created by God (though it very well could have been). As many of us who have cared to learn about it- the stories in the Bible were passed from generation to generation as many of them are supposed to have occured before the written word. So, it stands to reason LOGICALLY that many messages that these stories contained were lost along the way (a lot like that game called telephone). I don't believe that anywhere in the Bible does it say that homosexuality is wrong. (By the way "Bible thumper" is not a compliment. It's an insult insinuating that a person is quoting parts of the Bible to suit their arguement. Which is why I won't quote it. I don't feel the need to insult the topic at hand by doing so.) Gay marriage should be legal. If you are not gay or have no empathy for people who are based solely on a religious standpoint you're just being a butthead- yeah I went there! You are not looking at it properly. You're not thinking about how you would feel in the other persons shoes. If you were a homosexual and couldn't get married I bet you'd feel pretty upset about the whole thing, especially if you had a partner who you really loved. Ignore the sexual orientation and the religion for a minute and THINK how you might FEEL if you couldn't get married to the person you love! That's all it comes down to. Not religion, not politics, or the degradation of the family moral. It comes down to the choice to marry for love- the person you love (providing this person is of course a consenting adult of the human variety). And doesn't everyone deserve that right? very good i could not have said it better myself the point that an adult should control another adult is wrong |
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To me, marrige is simply a tradition of the Christian churches for couples who are in love and vow to stay together. So in that light; gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because it goes against the bible and is considered a sin by most high ranking Bishops. But i do also believe that gays should get the same benefits as marriage, like tax breaks, and other things that come with it (never been married so i don't know what all happens). I think people are more scared that their tradition will mean nothing and feel let down if the churches allowed gay marriage in a church. Maybe instead of calling it gay marriage they should call it "gay binding" or "gay coupling" and people won't get so heated about it. Also, Freddie Mercury was the greatest singer in Rock and Roll history See that isn't so hard! I can agree with it. |
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