Oh Yea,, The minutemen are a fine example of their patriotic brothers of
yesterday. They are as fine American specimen's, as exist anywhere,
including the boys in Afganistan, and Iraq. They are only doing what the
Federal Government wont, and that is an American. (By God)!! They have
my support, thats a fact!!!

I would never in a million years say let's "go back" but I do remember
when national news & global news was a radio broadcast that caught the
attention of people (the masses in general) for 10 to 30 minutes a day
or a WEEK. It was news, no more. People were left to form their own
opinions, do what they could to help the cause (victory gardens and such
during WWII) and go on with their lives. People of different sects
(religions/races) came together to make a better community - the one in
which they lived.

Communites took care of their own problems with town meetings,
organizations and they cleaned things us up with husbands of garden club
ladies who complained about trash in the gutters downtown and the
citizens DID something about those things. They cleaned it up or they
found the funds in the town's budget to hire someone to do it. OR they
donated their time to do it. Shop keepers took responsiblility for the
sidewalks outside their stores to keep things nice and run off the
deliquents or called the cops when even a scuffle began. The old days.
The people (public) took responsibility for any problems that arose.
They had a voice and they used it, putting aside petty (mostly)
differences to make a real difference in their own towns.

NOW - we have national/global news blasted out of the TV and on the
internet 24/7 in multiple streams that are ALL ABOUT opinion and not
facts. "Here is my take on it" is not news, just entertainment (if you
can even call it that).

Our children have grown up not knowing or realizing what "community"
means. It does not mean jump on some bandwagon to get a top US official
canned or impeached. Will that truly make a difference in anyone's day
to day life?

The communities that stretch along the US/Mexico border are the first
communities hit hard by immigration. But of course that problem has
spread to the entire US and into Canada too.

IF more communities would have NOT looked the other way stating that it
is "someone else's responsibility" (the fed's) we would not have this
problem today. Leaving things the way they are by passing the buck up
the ladder has led to a situation that is already way out of hand and
has been growing for generations.

Take a few steps BACK (not in time) as of TODAY and see what one man,
who organized a few citizens in a few towns is doing about COMMUNITIES
coming together to protect and defend their ways of life. Of course
there will be incidents. There are always incidents. Do those incidents
need to be broadcast to the entire world? When that happens, outsiders
get waaaayy too much say in what happens to those people. It should be
a local matter, not a national one.

It is not up to you or me to say "this guy did wrong" in a particular
incident. It is up to folks in those communities to take these issues in
hand and make the decisions that are right for them.

The fact that it becomes national/global news muddies the waters and
brings in opinions that actually, at the end of the day, do not count
for squat. If we lived in one of those towns we would feel differently.
It leaves our young people wringing their hands, turning their heads
fifty different ways wondering who is right and what stance to take on a
subject (not this one in particular) that does not even begin to touch
their lives.

Community is where action should be taken. Unfortunately no one seems to
know what "community" means anymore. (Did I say that already?)

In my most humble OHpinion, I think those folks are doing the right
thing for their communities and ultimately for the country. Perhaps the
"powers that be" will take the hint. And yes, I know all about the
corporations, groups and all that, but putting that into perspective, I
would rather see my country be a safer place to live and that includes
my own community.

Very well said Verb

Compelling message on COMMUNITY!

Food for thought verbatimeb.

Here is what is happening to community Action!




Laws Against Illegal Immigrants

Published: 1/20/07, 2:25 PM EDT
By The Associated Press


(AP) - A glance at how some local laws targeting illegal immigrants
have fared in places where they are being fought in court:

_Hazleton, Pa.: Federal judge blocked enforcement pending March trial.

_Valley Park, Mo.: State judge blocked enforcement pending March trial.

_Farmers Branch, Texas: State judge blocked enforcement. City Council to
vote on repeal; might place revised measure before voters.

_Escondido, Calif.: Federal judge blocked enforcement. City Council
killed ordinance but might craft replacement.

_Riverside, N.J.: Lawsuits filed in state court. Township has yet to
enforce ordinance.

_Cherokee County, Ga.: Federal lawsuit filed. County agreed to delay
enforcement.




Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may

God Bless The Minutemen!!!!

actually there are two daniel. this one and very relevant.

MONEY (the economics) DRIVES EVERYTHING!!!

The money equation could start explaining the whys of illegal
immigration into the US, helping to direct our actions to the cause
(WA), vs the symptom ('Illegals') of the problem. It might be as simple
as this:

Add: Widespread abject poverty and starvation in Mexico after US
corporations relocated their cheap-labor plants from the US-Mexico
border to Asia, plunging millions of low-wage earning Mexicans into
poverty (living near teh border because the pants were there).

Add: An extremely porous, under-enforced US-Mexico border. Which WA has
no intention of enforcing!

Add: LOW-wage pressures on the 'commodity' segment of your US GNP, and
US employers anxious to keep their commodity farms or manufacturing
business 'open', for more profits, and willing to exploit the poverty
and fears of illegal immigrants to do so, with the full collaboration of
your government.

Add: The federal government anxious to curry favor with , and garner
votes from, business owners and the Hispanic community...thus, willing
to under-enforce borders and immigrations laws, and ignore illegal
hiring by employers.

Add: In the late '80's, your SSA had tagged at 189billion$, the
correllation between 'illegals' (contribute but never collect), and
employers SSA contributions. Today, SSA has become dependent on taking
in $7 billion annually of contributions from illegal immigrant workers
who will never receive benefits from the system.


EQUALS: Millions of illegal immigrants working for low wages and in poor
working conditions, grateful for "scraps to fall from the US table of
prosperity," per Dr. Groody.

EQUALS: Wealthier US businesses, and a much-richer Social Security
Administration, neither which reimburse local and state authorities and
taxpayers for the costs (education, health care, law enforcement and
more) associated with illegal immigrants.

EQUALS: And a very angry US citizenry, who vilify immigrants for being
here, rather than blaming the business owners who hire and exploit them,
the US government which lets them enter the US and profits greatly from
them, and the Mexican government which is happy to see them immigrate
out of their country.

"Our nation virtually posts two sign on its southern border: 'Help
Wanted: Inquire Within' and 'Do Not Trespass," says Pastor Robin Hoover
of Humane Borders.

"Without the help of immigrant labor, the US economy would virtually
collapse. We want and need cheap immigrant labor; in order for it to be
that cheap it must be 'illegal', but we do not want the immigrants."

Voile. I have to agree with Mysteriousman here. Your last post deals
with the economics of the illegals not with the topic of the post which
is the MMP.

'karmafury',

MMP, has the popular support, but like the popular support it garners,
it's dealing IMO with the symptom (illegals) and not the cause (WA & the
Economy)!

I have plentifully questionned MMP's effectiveness and
counter-effectiveness earlier in this post, and suggested to AIM the
energy in a different direction, and have been arguing for that
different direction! (we're on page 6 'karma')

P.S.: Who is that Mysteriousman you referring to?
Never heard of him!!!

He's the guy who's been responding to you earlier. He had a pic up from
the movie 'Apocalypse Now'

Also well aware of page number. I spent some time discussing subject as
well.

Here were the questions asked by the post owner:

"...What are your views (Opinions) on this group of folks?"

Commented volumes on that


"... Do you think they are helping?"

Commented on that! NOT HELPING! Aimed at wrong target!
and went on to argue for the right target IMO!


"...Or are they a bunch of rednecks getting kicks out of this?"

Commented on that!


If you still believe I'm 'off' topic, explain please!

Otherwise, I would appreciate to hear what your opinion, or thoughts are
on the thread!

Voil, Do you renounce the mysteriousMAN?

Dont quit review these two bills up for adoption. Call your Senators and
represenetives. Tell them which one you favor.







White House plan
• Allows illegal immigrants who pass background checks to get three-year
"Z-visas" and continue working after paying $3,500 in fines and $3,500
for each renewal.
• Allows illegal immigrants who obtain Z-visas a chance to become legal
permanent residents and eligible for citizenship after paying up to
$10,000 in additional penalties.
• Bars holders of Z-visas and temporary workers from bringing families
to the United States.
• Allows a new temporary guest worker program and a path to citizenship
for illegal immigrants only after certain "triggers" are met, including
570 miles of fences and vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border.





Senate 2006 bill
• Allowed illegal immigrants who have been in the country five years or
more to remain, continue working and eventually become legal permanent
residents and citizens after paying at least $3,250 in fines and fees,
plus back taxes. They also must learn English.
• Required illegal immigrants in the U.S. between two and five years to
go to a point of entry at the border and file an application to return.
• Required those in the country less than two years to leave.
• Created a new temporary guest worker program.
• Authorized 870 miles of new fences and vehicle barriers along the
U.S.-Mexico border.



Source: Associated Press • Print this



But the clock is ticking on attempts to compromise

Lets make them compromise.......
Dont allow another year or ten go by, Call now...
We can win...

I like the white house plan. Please dont throw stones...LOL

Heres a link to the article, A pep talk for my friends who aggree
something needs to be done. BRB, I have to call Heath Shuler...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18090679/

Read them both, four times to be sure, and I prefer the White House
Plan.

Here is what is happening to community Action!




Laws Against Illegal Immigrants

Published: 1/20/07, 2:25 PM EDT
By The Associated Press


(AP) - A glance at how some local laws targeting illegal immigrants
have fared in places where they are being fought in court:

_Hazleton, Pa.: Federal judge blocked enforcement pending March trial.

_Valley Park, Mo.: State judge blocked enforcement pending March trial.

_Farmers Branch, Texas: State judge blocked enforcement. City Council to
vote on repeal; might place revised measure before voters.

_Escondido, Calif.: Federal judge blocked enforcement. City Council
killed ordinance but might craft replacement.

_Riverside, N.J.: Lawsuits filed in state court. Township has yet to
enforce ordinance.

_Cherokee County, Ga.: Federal lawsuit filed. County agreed to delay
enforcement.




Copyright 2007 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
This material may