OK 'mysteriousMAN',

First off, GIVE ME THE FULL ID OF THAT IDIOTIC RADIO STATION YOU
LISTEN TO, AND THE EXACT COMMENT THEY MADE ABOUT CANADA'S BORDERS.

I'LL SEE TO IT THAT THEIR 'SEATING GEAR' GETS SUED FOR DIFFAMATION.
That Mexicans sift through our borders to the US can only be imagine by
Crack Addicts!!!

And you should know better than to listen to crap like that. Do you
believe everything you hear? Everything that serves your opinions that
is? C'mon, you're starting to come across much less of a 'myteriousMAN'
with every statement here.

Our border security is tight, and not at all the subject of this post.
Get YOUR 'post-digestion-food' in order.

Highjacking a post with simplistic and confused rethoric does not honor
you 'mysteriousMAN'. You can do better than that.

Again if you had read my earlier post, I trust you would have understood
the point. But just in case, here it is again:

Your borders are porous because YOUR GOVERNMENT TOLERATES IT THAT WAY,
AND WILL KEEP THAT WAY, becoause it serves your economy, and your
ECONOMY rules! ... not the 'minutemen'!

YOUR President BUSH as been referring to the MMP civilians of the
Minuteman project as 'vigilantes'. Vigilantes are 'illegals' by any
standards, including US standards.

When I said AIM your metaphorical guns at the right target, I'LL repeat
it, AIM your 'met. guns' AT YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, NOT MEXICO, AND MUCH
LESS CANADA.

With respect to the situation, and while I don't condone
Barbiesbigsister's irresponsible comment:
''...My honest to god feelings on tending to the borders is to shoot to
kill. No questions, no warnings, just shoot them.''

I agree with her comments that the situation is out of control and
causing havoc for many.

But again, aim at the right target: WASHINGTON!!!

If WA doesn't get it, it sure isn't going to be a bunch of 'cowboy
hats', taking the law in their own hands, that's going to impact the
situation. Especially since they irritate the heck out of WA!


If you're serious about turning things around on that issue, check out a
post where Fanta46 suggests the right kind of action for a civilized
democracy:

For President (Republican - Colorado)
Congressman Thomas G. "Tom" Tancredo
(Republican - Colorado)
http://tancredo4prez.blogspot.com/

This candidate tackles the issue of 'immigration' seriously and
honorably, using the right democratic channels, and challenging
Washington: the right target.

By the way Mysteriousman. Do you know why the White House is white?

yes karma, I do know that the coyoties are americans. I would love to
have one of them in the sights of my AR-15. they charge $5,000 for the
wets, and $50,000 for the terroriest. They need to be put away for life
if not the death sentence for bringing in a terrorist.

u dont like to think do u?





If there is a "true" war on terror, then why are our borders open?

After all, if you buy this governments story about 911, 19 guys with
box-cutters completly kicked our asses.

they kicked

1 Norad
2 Airforce
3 Dept. of Defense
4 The president's circle
5 The stock market (shorts were done on the airlines)
6 The CIA
7 The FBI
8 Americans, those that were killed
9 The media, they have no clue
10 The American people as a whole

then they surly can row a boat, cross the open borders and do more
damage, no?


open your brain and think.

JUST WHY ARE THE BORDERS LEFT OPEN?


http://youtube.com/watch?v=N5I7NFracPU


http://youtube.com/watch?v=EMWn-bQYfSc

Just to let you know "NO I DO NOT TRUST OUR GOVERMENT" I joined the Army
National Guard for my reasons. However I would rather have Bush in then
any Demorcrate. They truly are the ones that want to take away our
rights. Voil. I do want you to know just because you're long winded
dosen't mean your right. Just because you get your info from someone you
think is right dosen't mean it is. You don't impress me at all. As I
have been saying this topic is about the MMP NOT about the work force in
this country, CAN YOU GET IT NOW???????????????????Voil. You're post had
nothing to do with the MMP!!!!!!!!DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW???????? As for
you BW you should get in touch with voil maybe he can help you relocate
in Canada. Now Karma, It's true there are thinks about Canada I don't
like. Maybe sometime I post why.

'mysteriousMAN',

I'm afraid that on this post, your insults, your impertinent comments,
and your state of confusion makes it difficult to have a constructive
exchange here.

It seems only your off-track opinions are right, only your
'radio-station' has the right information, and only your totally off
topic questions should be answered!

If you have all the answers, and have no interest in EXCHANGING VIEWS
with others, I suggest you start your own post, and invite yourself!
I'm sure you'll get along great, and agree with yourself all the way.

Respectfully.

So what is it with you. EVERYONE has to agree with you. ARE YOU RIGHT
ALL THE TIME. NO I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU SO EXCEPT IT. LIVE WITH IT. I
don't respect you comments. GOT IT.

It's you that can't exchange views. Because if my views aren't the same
as yours then I'm wrong. You've been showing it all night. So live with
the FACT that not everyone thinks you are
right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bush and Kerry and clinton are traitors


its that simple and the border situation is a fraud.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MFb48iqMOXs

My initial post is waaaayyyyyy back in the beginning now, but Fanta, I
just wanted to say I do see your point and agree very much w/ it. I
think non-citizens should have the right to come to America, of course,
but I also believe they need to attain citizenship, pay taxes, respect
our flag, learn the language, etc. I don't like seeing the flag of
Mexico paraded on the American streets when the immigrants are
protesting our "treatment" of them. We are America; we have our own flag
and IT belongs HERE. No, I don't believe non-compliance to the American
culture is acceptable at all. I don't think migrant workers should be
allowed free dental and medical, and find it especially appalling when
that free assistance arrives at their front door view traveling clinic.
I am a taxpayer, but no one drives to my door to offer free medical and
dental care. There are many things that anger me about this issue. The
people I spoke of in my earlier thread are those who I have seen become
Americans, learn English, salute our flag, pay taxes, etc. I have
respect for their accomplishments. However, I am firm in my belief that
if one wants to reap the benefits of America he or she needs to work for
them the same as the rest of us who have been working, voting, legally
driving, donating organs, etc.

Voil, you are too far from the contrversy to realize the burdens. This
time my friend it is you who are going by the press reports which are
totaly one-sided, while I live amongst the problem everyday. Have you
ever read the dillingham report? I have, and I think here in NC, of
every 17 hispanics, only 1 is here legally. We have went way beyond 25%
of our pop total being illegal immigrants. we used to have, 10 years
ago, only migrant agricultural workers, seasonally. Now the construction
industry is full of them, and they have lowered page scales in these
trades quite a bit.You either work for less, or not at all. You need, to
not read the press on this issue, because you and they, are way off
base.I reckon Canada doesnt have this problem. I can tell just by
listening to your views on the subject.The US has a quest worker
program, has for years, migrant worker populations are based upon the
agriculture industries forcasted needs, and there is no need for
anymore. Espeacially for shake-n-bake US citizenship.

Fanta,

Just went to check out the Dillingham Commission Report! 41 volumes!
Will work on it in coming days. Great source.

I agree with you entirely when you say I am far removed from the
'burden', and the havoc this is causing all of you in day-to-day life.

I do not dismiss your well thought out arguments on the issue Fanta, and
you know it.

And I don't disagree at all with the idea that this mess has reached a
point of serious crisis.

Apart from the 'shoot and kill' comment, I get the point
Barbiesbigsister is making about the out-of-control havoc, the crimes
and the disorder level.

I'm strictly pointing to the means, not the end!

First, while I think Gilchrist is approaching this Minuteman Project
from a 'non-violent' angle (no racists, no supremacists, no guns, etc.),
are we naive enough to think that he and his small civilian movement
will be able to control the 'shoot & kill' sentiment that is brewing in
the native population.
A good part of the population involved in the crisis, supports the MMP
initiative. They want them to 'win', where the State and WA have failed
them. But can this 'team' win? And if not, then what?

If MMP take the law in their own hands, what's stopping other less
principled 'trigger happy' natives to start their own 'backyard'
militia? Does this not escalade the already explosive crisis?

Second, isn't legitimate to wonder how come WA isn't stepping in!!! And
to question their motives not to step in??? It seems from all reports,
that far from stepping in to control the issue, WA, both Dems. and
Reps., have been hypocritacally fuelling it (amnesty of illegals, and
closing their eyes on border crossers).
Isn't legitimate also, to wonder that the numbers (economy and votes)
are the only aspects which guide against WA stepping in???
This is by the way where I find a solid Rep. Conv. candidate (Tancredo)
carrying this issue as a priority, has much better chances then MMP, of
galvanizing the vote, and weighing in on the balance.

MMP can only hurt in this perspective. I would seriously doubt Tancredo,
as a serious and legitimate candidate, could ever bless or otherwise
accept the support of MMP, or be associated to radical elements beyond
MMP. He needs solid mainstream citizen support, clean of affiliations
with any sort of radical groups.

Third, solid and clean popular support behind a 'Tancredo' like
candidate, is the only effective way to raise the volume on this issue,
and turn it around.
And you know how it goes, the greater the popular support: the larger
the potential block of votes, and the heavier you weigh against the
'Economic Gods'.
When the 'Economic Gods' notice a 'storm' on the horizon (block of votes
that could end up in the hands of the wrong candidate), they give WA
loads of money to 'buy' them 'nice weather'!

So what do you say Fanta, is it just a difference of POV on the
'means', or is it a more fundametal different read of the whole
situation?

I look forward to your thoughts on this.





why hasn't WA solved this thing? Are we to sit here and believe and that
this is too big for WA, and that they need the help of 'vigilantes'!

The borders are open for 1 reason.


to dilute this country. that is to dilute the US Constitution, Bill of
Rights and any kind of soverignty and ideals that we used to enjoy, any
other reason is to "muddy" up the topic.

right now we have 2 former border patrol agents in prison for 12 years
for shooting and aprehending an illegal with 600 pounds of mary jane in
his van, he crashed the van and ran, when the agents told him to stop he
started to grab a weapon and was shot in the butt.

Bush's DAs charged the agents with violating the illegas rights and now
the agents rot in prison in solitary because they get beat up by other
illegals.


This topic is not difficult or complex, it is very easy that a 12 year
old can understand it, and that is why 83%+ Americans want the borders
shut down and illegals to be deported. Only those that hate this country
and what it stands for is the reason NOTHING is done about it, and this
government/both parties surly hates this country...its that simple.


Im so shocked that this topic goes on and on and on and on.

ILLEGAL means illegal....

my 12 year old laughs at some of you.

"my 12 year old laughs at some of you."
What kind of a comment is this to make?

Please do not bash the members for their opinions or statements.
ALL OF YOU.



I have a feeling that all the MMP citizens are doing what they see fit
as GOOD SOLID AMERICANS defending their families and homes.

How about YOU?

I think there great, and my son even helped them out. Its sad that this
government dumps on them, and even deomonizes them.

verbatimeb,

To yours:

"... I have a feeling that all the MMP citizens are doing what they see
fit as GOOD SOLID AMERICANS defending their families and homes. How
about YOU?"

For my part, nothing to add or take away from that statement of yours
verbatimeb. I share the same feeling. It's a bit like, regardless of
what your position is on the war in Iraq, all support the brave women
and men volunteers.

But it begs the questions:

1. 'why does it have to come to that?' (citizens having to do the job of
your Gov's: enforce the laws of your land!).

2. 'however well intended the small circle of Gilchrist and the OFFICIAL
MEMBERS of the MMP may be and are, how is the message received, and
interpreted by less virtuous unofficial 'members' an sympathizers of the
'cause'?!?!?'

3. 'how can Gilchrist and members, in spite of their best intentions,
assure in any way, that it is not going to get WAY OUT OF HAND?'

4. 'given Gilchrist's legitimate 'end': are the means he's proposing
with MMP effective? or potentially explosive? Again he may be very
'honest' and pure in his intent, but not all concerned with this issue
have Gilchrist's morals and resolve.

5. 'are there not political venues that would avoid the potential of
seeing this situation turn very nasty indeed,
... and be much more effective in dealing with the heart of the issue
(Washington), such as proposed by a Rep. nomination candidate TANCREDO,
a staunch and very vocal supporter of cleaning up this 'immigration'
situation?'


I understand this is a very sensitive issue.

I also understand that simply talking about the different aspects of the
questions, becomes a veritable minefield for those who walk into it.

The interesting part, IMO, is: I don't think there is much disagreement
on the END state, the nature of the crisis and the need to resolve it.
We are just having a hard time 'discussing' the MEANS, and their
potential effectiveness or ineffectiveness.

Still a great topic you've raised here verbatimed!

Voil, So what is it you want to hear? Do want us to say "You right,YOU D
MAN Voil. All the MMP are is a group of vigilantes" Thank GOD for
KANUCS, What would we do without them??????????

OK Voil, Now take a breath. Breathe in, Breathe out!!!!!!!!!!!!

Voil, the dillingham report is my answer to people who think we were
always open to immigration. The conclusion brings an end evidentualy to
Ellis Island, which by the way was set-up to register, and document the
thousands of Europeans back when we had legal, open immigration. Which
was during the industrial revolution, a time when we needed skilled
industrial labor, at a time when we could stand the increase in pop..
The dillingham report is a report put together by a congressional
commitee, assigned to study the effects in several different arenas.
Evrything from lowered pay rates, to law enforcement, to welfare. What I
found interesting is the similarities in their conclussions and our
predicaments and complaints today. I cant precisely remember the
date,?(1921), or something, but read on. Its a little history many
americans dont know.

41 pages, LMAO,, Yep, Government hasn't changed much has it?,,,,Except
they (Uncle Sam) seemed to care more about the American people then..