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Topic: doesn't "Jesus is God" goes against God's law
krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 09:47 AM
Sorry wrong article link...good link but not the one I wanted ot share.
I only can paste it. Sorry:

The Word of God is addressed to men, and therefore it speaks the
language of men. Because we cannot rise to God's level He, in grace,
comes down to ours and converses with us in our own speech. The
Apostle Paul tells us of how he was "caught up into Paradise and heard
unspeakable words which it is not possible (margin) to utter" (2 Cor.
12:4). Those on earth could not understand the vernacular of Heaven.
The finite cannot comprehend the Infinite, hence the Almighty deigns
to couch His revelation in terms we may understand. It is for this
reason the Bible contains many anthropomorphisms-i.e, representations
of God in the form of man. God is Spirit, yet the Scriptures speak of
Him as having eyes, ears, nostrils, breath, hands, etc., which is
surely an accommodation of terms brought down to the level of human
comprehension.

Again; we read in Genesis 18:20, 21 "And the LORD said, Because the
cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very
grievous, I will go down now, and see whether they have done
altogether according to the cry of it, which is come up unto Me; and
if not, I will know." Now, manifestly, this is an anthropologism-God
speaking in human language. God knew the conditions which prevailed in
Sodom, and His eyes had witnessed its fearful sins, yet He is pleased
to use terms here that are taken from our own vocabulary.
Again; in Genesis 22:12 we read "And He (God) said, Lay not thine hand
upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him: for now I know that
thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only
son, from Me." Here again, God is speaking in the language of men for
He "knew" before He tested Abram exactly how the patriarch would act.
So too the expression of God so often in Jeremiah (7:13 etc.) of Him
"rising up early" is manifestly an accommodation of terms.
In the same way we understand the words of Genesis 6:6-"It repented
the LORD that He had made man on the earth"-as an accommodation of
terms to human comprehension. This verse does not teach that God was
confronted with an unforeseen contingency and therefore regretted that
He had made man, but it expresses the abhorrence of a holy God at the
awful wickedness and corruption into which man had fallen. Should
there be any doubt remaining in the minds of our readers as to the
legitimacy and soundness of our interpretation, a direct appeal to
Scripture should instantly and entirely remove it-"The Strength of
Israel (a Divine title) will not He nor repent: for He is not a man,
that He should repent" (1 Sam. 15:29)! "Every good and perfect gift is
from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with Whom is no
variableness, neither shadow of turning" (James 1:17)!
One Scripture which we often find cited in order to overthrow the
teaching advanced in this book is our Lord's lament over Jerusalem: "O
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them
which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children
together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye
would not!" (Matt. 23:37). The question is asked, Do not these words
show that the Saviour acknowledged the defeat of His mission, that as
a people the Jews resisted all His gracious overtures toward them? In
replying to this question, it should first be pointed out that our
Lord is here referring not so much to His own mission as He is
upbraiding the Jews for having in all ages rejected His grace-this is
clear from His reference to the "prophets." The Old Testament bears
full witness of how graciously and patiently Jehovah dealt with His
people, and with what extreme obstinancy, from first to last, they
refused to be "gathered" unto Him, and how in the end He abandoned
them to follow their own devices, yet, as the same Scriptures declare,
the counsel of God was not frustrated by their wickedness, for it had
been foretold (and therefore, decreed) by Him: see, for example, 1
Kings 8:33.

Matthew 23:37 may well be compared with Isaiah 65:2 where the Lord
says, "I have spread out My hands all the day unto a rebellious
people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own
thoughts." But, it may be asked, Did God seek to do that which was in
opposition to His own eternal purpose? In words borrowed from Calvin
we reply, "Though to our apprehension the will of God is manifold and
various, yet He does not in Himself will things at variance with each
other, but astonishes our faculties with His various and 'manifold'
wisdom, according to the expression of Paul, till we shall be enabled
to understand that He mysteriously wills what now seems contrary to
His will." As a further illustration of the same principle we would
refer the reader to Isaiah 5:1-4: "Now will I sing to my wellBeloved a
song of my Beloved touching His vineyard. My wellBeloved hath a
vineyard in a very fruitful hill: And He fenced it, and gathered out
the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine and built a
tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and He
looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild
grapes. And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge,
I pray you, betwixt Me and My vineyard. What could have been done more
to My vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked
that it should bring forth grapes, it brought forth wild grapes?" Is
it not plain from this language that God reckoned Himself to have done
enough for Israel to warrant an expectation-speaking after the manner
of men-of better returns? Yet, is it not equally evident when Jehovah
says here "He looked that it should bring forth grapes" that He is
accommodating Himself to a form of finite expression? And, so also
when He says "What could have been done more to My vineyard, that I
have not done in it?" we need to take note that in the previous
enumeration of what He had done-the "fencing" etc.-He refers only to
external privileges, means, and opportunities, which had been bestowed
upon Israel, for, of course, He could even then have taken away from
them their stony heart and given them a new heart, even a heart of
flesh, had He so pleased.

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From the series: The Pleasures of God

From the topic: The Sovereignty of God
Related Resources

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* I Am the Lord, and Besides Me There Is No Savior (Sermons)
* If the Lord Wills (Sermons)
* Introduction to Spectacular Sins (Interviews)
* Are There Two Wills in God? (Articles)

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(Audio CD Set)

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History's Most Spectacular Sin
(Outreach Booklet)

The Pleasure of God in All That He Does
Listen | Download | Podcast
Excerpts: Listen
Download: Audio | Audio Excerpt
By John Piper February 1, 1987



Psalm 135:6

Whatever the Lord pleases he does, in heaven and on earth, in the
seas and all deeps.

Two Assumptions Underlying This Series

Two assumptions lie at the foundation of this new series of messages
on the pleasures of God.

1. An Assumption About the Worth of a Soul

The first assumption is that "The worth and excellency of a soul is
measured by the object of its love" (Henry Scougal). If we apply that
to God, then one way of beholding the worth and excellency of God is
to meditate on what he loves.

Another way to put it would be to say that the measure of God's
dignity is determined by what he delights in. Or another way would be
to say that the greatness of God's excellence is registered by his
enjoyments. What he takes pleasure in signals the beauty and the
preciousness of his character.

2. An Assumption About How We Are Transformed

The second assumption is that when we fix our mind's attention on the
worth and excellency of God, that is, when we meditate on his glory,
we are changed little by little into his likeness.

And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,
are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to
another. (2 Corinthians 3:18)

So my goal in these next 12 weeks is to direct your attention to the
pleasures of God revealed in Scripture; in the hope that you will see
in them some of the infinite measure of God's worth and excellency;
and in seeing this glory that you might rise one step at a time into
his likeness; so that at home and work and school people will see your
good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

Portray his pleasures in preaching. Behold his glory in listening.
Approach his likeness in meditation. Display his worth in the world.
May God be gracious to bless the ministry of his Word in these weeks.
God Has Always Been Exuberantly Happy

Last week we focused on the pleasure that God the Father has in his
Son. The most important lesson to be learned from that truth is this:
God is and always has been an exuberantly happy God. He has never been
lonely. He has always rejoiced with overflowing satisfaction in the
glory of his Son. You might say that the Son of God has always been
the landscape of God's excellencies or the panorama of God's
perfections. And therefore from all eternity God has beheld with
overflowing satisfaction the magnificent terrain of his own radiance
reflected in the Son.
God Is Not Constrained by Anything Outside Himself

A second lesson to learn from this truth is that God is not
constrained by anything outside himself to do anything he does not
want to do. If God were unhappy, if he were in some way deficient,
then he might indeed be constrained from outside in some way to do
what he does not want to do in order to make up his deficiency and
finally to be happy.

That is the way we are. We come into the world knowing almost nothing
and have to spend years and years going to classes or learning in the
school of hard knocks. Parents and teachers tell us to do things that
we don't like to do because we need to do them to overcome some
deficiency in ourselves—to increase our knowledge or strengthen our
bodies or refine our manners.

But God is not like that. He has been complete and overflowing with
satisfaction from all eternity. He needs no education. No one can
offer anything to him that doesn't already come from him. And so no
one can bribe him or coerce him in any way. You can't bribe a mountain
spring with bucketfuls of water from the valley. Therefore God does
what he does not begrudgingly or under external constraint as though
he were boxed in or trapped by some unforeseen or unplanned situation.

On the contrary, because he is complete and exuberantly happy and
overflowing with satisfaction in the fellowship of the Trinity, all he
does is free and uncoerced. His deeds are the overflow of his joy.
This is what it means when the Scripture says that God does something
according to the "good pleasure" of his will. It means that nothing
outside God's own pleasure—the pleasure he has in what he is, nothing
but that pleasure—has constrained his choices and his deeds.
God Does Whatever He Pleases

This brings us to the focus of today's message—"The Pleasure of God in
All That He Does"—and today's text: Psalm 135.

The psalm begins by calling us to praise the Lord: "Praise the Lord.
Praise the name of the Lord." Then, starting in verse 3 the psalmist
gives us reasons for why we should feel praise rising in our hearts
toward God. It says, for example, "Praise the Lord, for the Lord is
good." The list of reasons for praise goes on until it comes to verse
6, and this is the verse I want us to focus on this morning:

Whatever the Lord pleases he does,
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all deeps.

Psalm 115:3 says the same thing:

Our God is in the heavens;
he does whatever he pleases.

This verse teaches that whenever God acts, he acts in a way that
pleases him. God is never constrained to do a thing that he despises.
He is never backed into a corner where his only recourse is to do
something he hates to do. He does whatever he pleases. And therefore,
in some sense, he has pleasure in all that he does.

Isaiah uses the same Hebrew word (as a noun) in Isaiah 46:10 where the
Lord says,

My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my pleasure.

On the basis of these texts and many others we should bow before God
and praise his sovereign freedom—that in some sense at least he always
acts in freedom, according to his own "good pleasure," following the
dictates of his own delights. He never becomes the victim of
circumstance. He is never forced into a situation where he must do
something in which he cannot rejoice.
Does God Really Take Pleasure in All He Does?

This is a glorious picture of God in his sovereign freedom—to do
whatever he pleases and to accomplish all his pleasure. But it would
be a fuzzy picture, a bit out of focus, if we stopped here. To bring
it into focus and sharpen it up we have to ask this question: "How can
God say in Ezekiel 18:23 and 32 that he does not have pleasure in the
death of any impenitent person, if in fact he accomplishes all his
pleasure and does whatever he pleases?"

The Question Raised by Ezekiel 18

In Ezekiel 18:30 God is warning the house of Israel of impending
judgment: "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one
according to his ways, says the Lord." And he is urging them to
repent: "Repent and turn from all your transgressions." At the end of
verse 31 he says, "Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no
pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord God; so turn, and
live."

This seems to be a very different picture than the one we saw in Psalm
135, where God does whatever he pleases. Here he seems to be cornered.
It seems that he is forced into judging them when he really doesn't
want to. He seems to be about to do something that he is not pleased
to do. Is he going to accomplish all his pleasure or not? Is God
really free to do all everything according to his good pleasure? Or
does his sovereign freedom have its limits? Can he do whatever he
pleases up to a point, and then after that is he cornered into doing
things he only grieves to do?

We Cannot Limit God's Freedom to Nature

We might try to solve the problem by going back to Psalm 135 and
saying that God does whatever he pleases in the natural world but not
in the personal sphere. After all it says in verse 7:

He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who
makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his
storehouses.

But this effort to limit God's freedom to the sphere of nature will
not work for two reasons.

1. One is that if God controls the wind and makes it blow whenever and
wherever he pleases—which is certainly true (remember Jesus' "Peace!
Be still!")—then God is responsible for the destruction of thousands
of lives by drowning because of the storms and hurricanes and
tornadoes and monsoons and typhoons which God has brought forth from
his storehouses over the centuries.

So when Psalm 135 says that the Lord does whatever he pleases, it has
to include the taking of personal life at sea through the wind which
he alone controls.

2. But the text doesn't leave us to draw out silent inferences like
that. The psalmist goes on in verses 8-11 to say that God's sovereign
freedom was shown most vividly in the Exodus out of Egypt:

8) He it was who smote the first-born of Egypt, both of man and of
beast . . . 10) who smote many nations and slew mighty kings . . .

That is the second reason you can't limit the freedom of God in this
psalm to the natural realm. When the psalmist says in verse 6 that
"whatever the Lord pleases he does," he doesn't just refer implicitly
to the tragedies owing to wind; he also refers explicitly to the
destruction of rebellious Egyptians, and nations, and kings. This is
the scope of what God does when he does whatever he pleases.

So in Ezekiel it says that God is not pleased with the death of
unrepentant people, and in Psalm 135 it says that God does whatever he
pleases including the slaying unrepentant people. And the very same
Hebrew verb is used in Psalm 135:6 ("he pleases") and Ezekiel 18:32
("he has pleasure").

The Problem Gets Worse

Before I suggest a solution to this problem, let me make it worse.

Many Christians today have a conception of God that isn't troubled by
his being cornered into doing things he doesn't want to do. And I can
easily imagine that one response to what we have seen so far would be
to say that we have created an artificial problem because Psalm 135
doesn't actually say that God takes delight in destroying the
Egyptians.

Perhaps someone would say that "doing whatever he pleases" in Psalm
135:6 is just a figure of speech and doesn't carry the sense of
pleasure or delight. And so they would say that God only grieves when
he must judge unrepentant sinners, and there is no sense in which he
is doing what he is pleased to do.

In answer to this I would say again that the same word used in Psalm
135:6 for God's being "pleased" is used in Ezekiel 18:32 for God's not
being "pleased." Then I would direct attention to Deuteronomy 28:63
where Moses warns of coming judgment on unrepentant Israel. But this
time it says something strikingly different from Ezekiel 18:32,

And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying
you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and
destroying you. (Cf. Proverbs 1:24-26; Revelation 18:20; Ezekiel
5:13.)

So we are brought back to the inescapable fact that in some sense God
does not delight in the death of the wicked (that is the message of
Ezekiel 18), and in some sense he does (that is the message of Psalm
135:6-11 and Deuteronomy 28:63).

A Solution to the Problem

I have commended a solution to you before and I will commend it again:
namely, that the death and misery of the unrepentant is in and of
itself no delight to God. God is not a sadist. He is not malicious or
bloodthirsty. Instead, when a rebellious, wicked, unbelieving person
is judged, what God delights in is the vindication of truth and
goodness and of his own honor and glory.
When Moses warns Israel that the Lord will take delight in bringing
ruin upon them and destroying them if they don't repent, he means that
those who have rebelled against the Lord and moved beyond repentance
will not be able to gloat that they have made the Almighty miserable.
Quite the contrary. Moses says that when they are judged, they will
unwittingly give an opportunity for God to rejoice in the
demonstration of his justice and his power and the infinite worth of
his glory



'Numbers ' tv show. Math geniuses are so far beyond our understanding
and God is infinetly beyond theirs. Let us not turn theology into
Philosophy . Rationalism
God of the Possible Discards the Unknown, Mysterious Dimensions of God

The Bible continually portrays God as One whose character
and ways are infinitely beyond any substantial human understanding and
whose future plans will not be overturned by anyone or anything. Here
is a Scriptural sampler.28

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of
God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For
WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? (Rom
11:33-34).

"And all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
but He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the
inhabitants of earth; and no one can ward off His hand or say to Him,
'What hast Thou done? . . . (Dan 4:35).

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My
ways," declares the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the
earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your
thoughts" (Isa 55:8-9).

Do you not know? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the
LORD, the creator of the ends of the earth does not become weary or
tired. His understanding is inscrutable (Isa 40:28).

How precious also are Thy thoughts to me, 0 God! How vast is the
sum of them! If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand.
When I awake, I am still with Thee (Ps 139:17-18).

How great are Thy works, 0 LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep. A
senseless man has no knowledge; nor does a stupid man understand this
(Ps 92:5-6).

How blessed is the man who has made the LORD his trust, and has
not turned to the proud, nor to those who lapse into falsehood. Many,
0 LORD my God, are the wonders which Thou has done, and Thy thoughts
toward us; there is none to compare with Thee; if I would declare and
speak of them, they would be too numerous to count (Ps 40:4-5).

The LORD nullifies the counsel of the nations; He frustrates the
plans of the peoples. The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the
plans of His heart from generation to generation (Ps 33: 10-11).

Openness advocates, so bent on philosophically and
anthropocentrically finding closure in defining and explaining God,
cannot properly handle the tensions that are presented in Scripture
when the divine side and the human side are both presented
side-by-side without any sense of contradiction or need of special
explanation.
For instance, take the inspiration of Scripture.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for
reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness (2 Tim 3:16).

For no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men
moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God (2 Pet 1:21).

Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set
apart for the gospel of God . . . . to all who are beloved of God in
Rome . . . (Rom 1: 1, 7).

I, Tertius, who write this letter, greet you in the Lord (Rom 16:22).

Who wrote Romans? God the Father? God the Spirit? Paul? Or
Tertius? The answer is "Yes!" There was a Divine side and a human
side." Do we understand fully how it works? "No!" Do we accept it by
faith? "Yes!" Do we believe that God dictated all of Scripture, even
though we know that He actually dictated some? "No!" Do we believe the
human authors could have exercised their own will and human acumen to
override what God intended to be written? "No"! Can we explain this
with full satisfaction to the human mind? "No!" Do we have to? "No!"
We must live with the tension that God determined and man participated
in recording what Scripture itself calls "the Word of God," not the
"Word of men' (1 Thess 2:13).30
The same tension exists in understanding that Christ is
fully God and fully man. Who can explain it? No one, but we believe it
by faith as taught in the Bible. Mental tension also exists in
attempting to understand what part God plays and what part man plays
in individual human salvation. The same tension is experienced in
reconciling how God's will and foreknowledge relate to the will of
humans.
When faced with these immensely important issues which
stretch the human mind to and sometimes beyond its limits, it is best
to let God be God, to rest in the fact that God has not revealed an
unabridged knowledge of Himself in Scripture, and to decide on behalf
of God being determinative rather than humans. It will never be God's
lack of knowledge concerning humans, but rather our finite, limited
understanding of God that creates the intellectual difficulties with
which we struggle.31 "Human reason, therefore, must adjust itself to
God's being and not the reverse." 32 Thus, this subject is an
exegetical issue not a philosophical one; it is decidedly revelational
in nature.
- Show quoted text -

tribo's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:01 AM




Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father.

Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son.



Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment.

The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost.

We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too.


The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh.

The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed.

Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles


right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law


oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day.


"Tribo" ...since what was in "Miles" post was also clearly written in bible then how can it be our interpetation ... we didn't write the thing


the very fact you read it and determine what you think it says makes you funches guilty as charged go to jail - donot pass go - donot collect greasy food and beer.

krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:02 AM
Or to sum up in brief. If God repented like a man would/could. That would mean He is not infinetly happy. That would mean something/s happened that upset Him. That would mean He didn'nt know something and He could learn and not be all knowing.
He reveals Himself to us in terms we can understand. We are told that we have to choose Jesus for salvation then we read. It was God who chooses us. For if we chose it would be a reward for salvation and not a gift...etc..

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:04 AM
to answer the question yes called jesus a god is going agnaist gods law

jesus was a prophet

not a god

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:04 AM

Thats the point. He didn't repent. Just like he knew where Adam was before he asked. And why He knew Abrahams heart before He told him to sacrifice his son and the bible says " Now I know you love me"
God knew before. He knows everything. " Not a bird falls out if the sky dead outside of the will ( hidden decree) of God.

God' ssoverign over all people and thier hearts:


"Kovere" ..it God knew before he made man that he would be sorry for creating them and would repent for doing so but yet created them anyway and repented again that he was sorry ...makes God sound crazy not ominscient

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:07 AM

Sorry wrong article link...good link but not the one I wanted ot share.
I only can paste it. Sorry:


oh my God ....oops I meant geez "Kovere" can't you just use your own thoughts ...

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:11 AM





Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father.

Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son.



Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment.

The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost.

We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too.


The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh.

The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed.

Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles


right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law


oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day.


"Tribo" ...since what was in "Miles" post was also clearly written in bible then how can it be our interpetation ... we didn't write the thing


the very fact you read it and determine what you think it says makes you funches guilty as charged go to jail - donot pass go - donot collect greasy food and beer.


"Tribo" please I gots to have that greasy food and beer ...where's your compassion

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:14 AM

to answer the question yes called jesus a god is going agnaist gods law

jesus was a prophet

not a god


"Chancey456"...to make up ones mind that your destiny is to be killed and then resort to doing everything to fullfilled that destiny is not being a prophet it's being suicidal

krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:24 AM
I did but you didn't get it. I posted an article that explains in detail the answer to your question. ..butI doubt you will read it. You're not looking for the truth your trying too hard to make a point that has no biblical grounds.
Read the article and make a point for point rebuttal . Just using childish remarks about posting an article and not using my personal words is just silly.

Read it and lets see how much you really care about finding the truth

krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:27 AM
Edited by krovere on Mon 10/27/08 10:28 AM

krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:28 AM

to answer the question yes called jesus a god is going agnaist gods law

jesus was a prophet

not a god


Ha..ha..It's like the old 'Jesus was just a good teacher' argument..lol A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with a man who says he is a poached egg - or he would be the devil of hell. You must take your choice. Either this was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us.

Milesoftheusa's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:28 AM





Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father.

Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son.



Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment.

The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost.

We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too.


The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh.

The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed.

Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles


right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law


oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day.


"Tribo" ...since what was in "Miles" post was also clearly written in bible then how can it be our interpetation ... we didn't write the thing


the very fact you read it and determine what you think it says makes you funches guilty as charged go to jail - donot pass go - donot collect greasy food and beer.





What is wrong Tribo? Elohim is used untill it says this is the history then all of a sudden we have Yahweh Elohim .. Why?

So tell me where I am Wrong.. Shalom...Miles

AdventureBegins's photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:37 AM
Wow...

You quote the very book that is used as a basis for falsely claiming a man... (i.e. walks,talks, excretes, takes baths) is god... and expect people to believe what is written is truth?

That book is suspect since it has been touched and retouched by the TOOLS OF MAN until it is no longer a thing of god... But rather a tool used to fool even the elect of the churches of man and control the very faith you hold within you.


no photo
Mon 10/27/08 10:55 AM

I did but you didn't get it. I posted an article that explains in detail the answer to your question. ..butI doubt you will read it. You're not looking for the truth your trying too hard to make a point that has no biblical grounds.
Read the article and make a point for point rebuttal . Just using childish remarks about posting an article and not using my personal words is just silly.

Read it and lets see how much you really care about finding the truth


no "kovere" I'm looking to discuss what may be possible truths not to forever read all the 'google cut and paste" that be going on in it place ...there are some that try to paste the entire bible into a thread

if you have read the article but yet you can't even place what you read in the article and condense it into your own thoughts to share then what does that say about the article

don't wonder I will help you get over your "google cut and paste' addiction as i have helped many

tribo's photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:01 AM
8 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> planted <05193> (8799) a garden <01588> eastward <06924> in Eden <05731>; and there <08033> he put <07760> (8799) the man <0120> whom <0834> he had formed <03335> (8804).
9 And out <04480> of the ground <0127> made <06779> <00> the LORD <03068> God <0430> to grow <06779> (8686) every tree <06086> that is pleasant <02530> (8737) to the sight <04758>, and good <02896> for food <03978>; the tree <06086> of life <02416> also in the midst <08432> of the garden <01588>, and the tree <06086> of knowledge <01847> of good <02896> and evil <07451>.
10 And a river <05104> went out <03318> (8802) of Eden <05731> to water <08248> (8687) the garden <01588>; and from thence it was parted <06504> (8735), and became into four <0702> heads <07218>.
11 The name <08034> of the first <0259> is Pison <06376>: that <01931> is it which compasseth <05437> (8802) the whole land <0776> of Havilah <02341>, where <0834> there is gold <02091>;
12 And the gold <02091> of that <01931> land <0776> is good <02896>: there is bdellium <0916> and the onyx <07718> stone <068>.
13 And the name <08034> of the second <08145> river <05104> is Gihon <01521>: the same is it that compasseth <05437> (8802) the whole land <0776> of Ethiopia <03568>. {Ethiopia: Heb. Cush}
14 And the name <08034> of the third <07992> river <05104> is Hiddekel <02313>: that is it which goeth toward <01980> (8802) the east <06926> of Assyria <0804>. And the fourth <07243> river <05104> is Euphrates <06578>. {toward…: or, eastward to Assyria}
15 And the LORD <03068> God <0430> took <03947> (8799) the man <0120>, and put him <03240> (8686) into the garden <01588> of Eden <05731> to dress <05647> (8800) it and to keep <08104> (8800) it. {the man: or, Adam}
16  And the LORD <03068> God <0430> commanded <06680> (8762) the man <0120>, saying <0559> (8800), Of every tree <06086> of the garden <01588> thou mayest freely <0398> (8800) eat <0398> (8799): {thou…: Heb. eating thou shalt eat} {*}
17 But of the tree <06086> of the knowledge <01847> of good <02896> and evil <07451>, thou shalt not eat <0398> (8799) of it: for in the day <03117> that thou eatest <0398> (8800) thereof thou shalt surely <04191> (8800) die <04191> (8799). {thou shalt surely…: Heb. dying thou shalt die} {*}
18 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> said <0559> (8799), It is not good <02896> that the man <0120> should be <01961> (8800) alone; I will make <06213> (8799) him an help meet <05828> for him. {meet…: Heb. as before him}
19 And out of the ground <0127> the LORD <03068> God <0430> formed <03335> (8799) every beast <02416> of the field <07704>, and every fowl <05775> of the air <08064>; and brought <0935> (8686) them unto Adam <0120> to see <07200> (8800) what he would call <07121> (8799) them: and whatsoever Adam <0120> called <07121> (8799) every living <02416> creature <05315>, that <01931> was the name thereof <08034>. {Adam: or, the man}
20 And Adam <0120> gave <07121> (8799) names <08034> to all cattle <0929>, and to the fowl <05775> of the air <08064>, and to every beast <02416> of the field <07704>; but for Adam <0120> there was not found <04672> (8804) an help meet <05828> for him. {gave: Heb. called}
21 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> caused <05307> <00> a deep sleep <08639> to fall <05307> (8686) upon Adam <0121>, and he slept <03462> (8799): and he took <03947> (8799) one <0259> of his ribs <06763>, and closed up <05462> (8799) the flesh <01320> instead thereof;
22 And the rib <06763>, which the LORD <03068> God <0430> had taken <03947> (8804) from man <0120>, made <01129> (8799) he a woman <0802>, and brought <0935> (8686) her unto the man <0120>. {made: Heb. builded}
23 And Adam <0120> said <0559> (8799), This <02063> is now <06471> bone <06106> of my bones <06106>, and flesh <01320> of my flesh <01320>: she <02063> shall be called <07121> (8735) Woman <0802>, because she <02063> was taken <03947> (8795) out of Man <0376>. {Woman: Heb. Isha} {Man: Heb. Ish}
24 Therefore <03651> shall a man <0376> leave <05800> (8799) his father <01> and his mother <0517>, and shall cleave <01692> (8804) unto his wife <0802>: and they shall be one <0259> flesh <01320>.
25 And they were both <08147> naked <06174>, the man <0120> and his wife <0802>, and were not ashamed <0954> (8709).
1 ¶ Now the serpent <05175> was <01961> (8804) more subtil <06175> than any beast <02416> of the field <07704> which the LORD <03068> God <0430> had made <06213> (8804). And he said <0559> (8799) unto the woman <0802>, Yea <0637>, hath God <0430> said <0559> (8804), Ye shall not eat <0398> (8799) of every tree <06086> of the garden <01588>? {Yea…: Heb. Yea, because, etc.}
2 And the woman <0802> said <0559> (8799) unto the serpent <05175>, We may eat <0398> (8799) of the fruit <06529> of the trees <06086> of the garden <01588>:
3 But of the fruit <06529> of the tree <06086> which is in the midst <08432> of the garden <01588>, God <0430> hath said <0559> (8804), Ye shall not eat <0398> (8799) of it, neither shall ye touch <05060> (8799) it, lest <06435> ye die <04191> (8799).
4 And the serpent <05175> said <0559> (8799) unto the woman <0802>, Ye shall not surely <04191> (8800) die <04191> (8799):
5 For God <0430> doth know <03045> (8802) that in the day <03117> ye eat <0398> (8800) thereof, then your eyes <05869> shall be opened <06491> (8738), and ye shall be as gods <0430>, knowing <03045> (8802) good <02896> and evil <07451>.
6 ¶ And when the woman <0802> saw <07200> (8799) that the tree <06086> was good <02896> for food <03978>, and that it <01931> was pleasant <08378> to the eyes <05869>, and a tree <06086> to be desired <02530> (8737) to make one wise <07919> (8687), she took <03947> (8799) of the fruit thereof <06529>, and did eat <0398> (8799), and gave <05414> (8799) also <01571> unto her husband <0376> with her; and he did eat <0398> (8799). {pleasant: Heb. a desire}
7 And the eyes <05869> of them both <08147> were opened <06491> (8735), and they <01992> knew <03045> (8799) that they were naked <05903>; and they sewed <08609> <00> fig <08384> leaves <05929> together <08609> (8799), and made themselves <06213> (8799) aprons <02290>. {aprons: or, things to gird about}
8 And they heard <08085> (8799) the voice <06963> of the LORD <03068> God <0430> walking <01980> (8693) in the garden <01588> in the cool <07307> of the day <03117>: and Adam <0120> and his wife <0802> hid themselves <02244> (8691) from the presence <06440> of the LORD <03068> God <0430> amongst <08432> the trees <06086> of the garden <01588>. {cool: Heb. wind}
9 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> called <07121> (8799) unto Adam <0120>, and said <0559> (8799) unto him, Where art thou <0335>?
10 And he said <0559> (8799), I heard <08085> (8804) thy voice <06963> in the garden <01588>, and I was afraid <03372> (8799), because I <0595> was naked <05903>; and I hid myself <02244> (8735).
11 ¶ And he said <0559> (8799), Who <04310> told <05046> (8689) thee that thou wast naked <05903>? Hast thou eaten <0398> (8804) of the tree <06086>, whereof I commanded thee <06680> (8765) that thou shouldest not <01115> eat <0398> (8800)?
12 And the man <0120> said <0559> (8799), The woman <0802> whom thou gavest <05414> (8804) to be with me <05978>, she <01931> gave <05414> (8804) me of the tree <06086>, and I did eat <0398> (8799).
13 And the LORD <03068> God <0430> said <0559> (8799) unto the woman <0802>, What is this that thou hast done <06213> (8804)? And the woman <0802> said <0559> (8799), The serpent <05175> beguiled me <05377> (8689), and I did eat <0398> (8799).
14 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> said <0559> (8799) unto the serpent <05175>, Because thou <0859> hast done <06213> (8804) this, thou art cursed <0779> (8803) above all cattle <0929>, and above every beast <02416> of the field <07704>; upon thy belly <01512> shalt thou go <03212> (8799), and dust <06083> shalt thou eat <0398> (8799) all the days <03117> of thy life <02416>:
15 And I will put <07896> (8799) enmity <0342> between thee and the woman <0802>, and between thy seed <02233> and her seed <02233>; it shall bruise <07779> (8799) thy head <07218>, and thou shalt bruise <07779> (8799) his heel <06119>.
16 ¶ Unto the woman <0802> he said <0559> (8804), I will greatly <07235> (8687) multiply <07235> (8686) thy sorrow <06093> and thy conception <02032>; in sorrow <06089> thou shalt bring forth <03205> (8799) children <01121>; and thy desire <08669> shall be to thy husband <0376>, and he shall rule <04910> (8799) over thee. {to thy…: or, subject to thy husband}
17 ¶ And unto Adam <0121> he said <0559> (8804), Because thou hast hearkened <08085> (8804) unto the voice <06963> of thy wife <0802>, and hast eaten <0398> (8799) of the tree <06086>, of which <0834> I commanded thee <06680> (8765), saying <0559> (8800), Thou shalt not eat <0398> (8799) of it: cursed <0779> (8803) is the ground <0127> for thy sake; in sorrow <06093> shalt thou eat <0398> (8799) of it all <03605> the days <03117> of thy life <02416>;
18 Thorns also <06975> and thistles <01863> shall it bring forth <06779> (8686) to thee; and thou shalt eat <0398> (8804) the herb <06212> of the field <07704>; {bring…: Heb. cause to bud}
19 In the sweat <02188> of thy face <0639> shalt thou eat <0398> (8799) bread <03899>, till <05704> thou return <07725> (8800) unto the ground <0127>; for out of it wast thou taken <03947> (8795): for dust <06083> thou <0859> art, and unto dust <06083> shalt thou return <07725> (8799).
20 ¶ And Adam <0120> called <07121> (8799) his wife’s <0802> name <08034> Eve <02332>; because she was the mother <0517> of all living <02416>. {Eve: Heb. Chavah: that is Living}
21 ¶ Unto Adam <0120> also and to his wife <0802> did the LORD <03068> God <0430> make <06213> (8799) coats <03801> of skins <05785>, and clothed them <03847> (8686).
22 ¶ And the LORD <03068> God <0430> said <0559> (8799), Behold <02005>, the man <0120> is become as one <0259> of us, to know <03045> (8800) good <02896> and evil <07451>: and now, lest he put forth <07971> (8799) his hand <03027>, and take <03947> (8804) also of the tree <06086> of life <02416>, and eat <0398> (8804), and live <02425> (8804) for ever <05769>:
23 Therefore the LORD <03068> God <0430> sent him forth <07971> (8762) from the garden <01588> of Eden <05731>, to till <05647> (8800) the ground <0127> from whence he was taken <03947> (8795).
24 So he drove out <01644> (8762) the man <0120>; and he placed <07931> (8686) at the east <06924> of the garden <01588> of Eden <05731> Cherubims <03742>, and a flaming <03858> sword <02719> which turned every way <02015> (8693), to keep <08104> (8800) the way <01870> of the tree <06086> of life <02416>.
1 ¶ And Adam <0120> knew <03045> (8804) <0853> Eve <02332> his wife <0802>; and she conceived <02029> (8799), and bare <03205> (8799) <0853> Cain <07014>, and said <0559> (8799), I have gotten <07069> (8804) a man <0376> from <0854> the LORD <03068>. {Cain: that is, Gotten, or, Acquired}
2 And she again <03254> (8686) bare <03205> (8800) his brother <0251> Abel <01893>. And Abel <01893> was a keeper <07462> (8802) of sheep <06629>, but Cain <07014> was a tiller <05647> (8802) of the ground <0127>. {Abel: Heb. Hebel} {a keeper: Heb. a feeder}
3 ¶ And in process <07093> of time <03117> it came to pass, that Cain <07014> brought <0935> (8686) of the fruit <06529> of the ground <0127> an offering <04503> unto the LORD <03068>. {in process…: Heb. at the end of days}
4 And Abel <01893>, he <01931> also brought <0935> (8689) of the firstlings <01062> of his flock <06629> and of the fat <02459> thereof. And the LORD <03068> had respect <08159> (8799) unto Abel <01893> and to his offering <04503>: {flock: Heb. sheep, or, goats}
5 But unto Cain <07014> and to his offering <04503> he had not respect <08159> (8804). And Cain <07014> was very <03966> wroth <02734> (8799), and his countenance <06440> fell <05307> (8799).
6 ¶ And the LORD <03068> said <0559> (8799) unto Cain <07014>, Why art thou wroth <02734> (8804)? and why is thy countenance <06440> fallen <05307> (8804)?
7 If <0518> thou doest well <03190> (8686), shalt thou not be accepted <07613>? and if thou doest not well <03190> (8686), sin <02403> lieth <07257> (8802) at the door <06607>. And unto thee shall be his desire <08669>, and thou shalt rule <04910> (8799) over him. {be accepted: or, have the excellency} {unto…: or, subject unto thee}






bigsmile you have helped no one!!!!!

tribo's photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:04 AM






Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father.

Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son.



Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment.

The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost.

We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too.


The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh.

The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed.

Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles


right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law


oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day.


"Tribo" ...since what was in "Miles" post was also clearly written in bible then how can it be our interpetation ... we didn't write the thing


the very fact you read it and determine what you think it says makes you funches guilty as charged go to jail - donot pass go - donot collect greasy food and beer.





What is wrong Tribo? Elohim is used untill it says this is the history then all of a sudden we have Yahweh Elohim .. Why?

So tell me where I am Wrong.. Shalom...Miles



oh c'mon miles, your always wrong - just accept it as your lot in life - laugh

krovere's photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:05 AM


I did but you didn't get it. I posted an article that explains in detail the answer to your question. ..butI doubt you will read it. You're not looking for the truth your trying too hard to make a point that has no biblical grounds.
Read the article and make a point for point rebuttal . Just using childish remarks about posting an article and not using my personal words is just silly.

Read it and lets see how much you really care about finding the truth


no "kovere" I'm looking to discuss what may be possible truths not to forever read all the 'google cut and paste" that be going on in it place ...there are some that try to paste the entire bible into a thread

if you have read the article but yet you can't even place what you read in the article and condense it into your own thoughts to share then what does that say about the article

don't wonder I will help you get over your "google cut and paste' addiction as i have helped many


You prove my point once more. you don't want to know the truth. If you did you would have read one of the best articles on the topic refuting a heresy called open theism. Which I'm sure you know about in your vast quest for truth...
Since you are not serious about actually learning something opposed to your own personal opinions I have to leave what I previously wrote as final
Good luck in your 'search'

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:06 AM


bigsmile you have helped no one!!!!!


"Tribo" I will make you "phisher" of men if you follow me

no photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:12 AM



I did but you didn't get it. I posted an article that explains in detail the answer to your question. ..butI doubt you will read it. You're not looking for the truth your trying too hard to make a point that has no biblical grounds.
Read the article and make a point for point rebuttal . Just using childish remarks about posting an article and not using my personal words is just silly.

Read it and lets see how much you really care about finding the truth


no "kovere" I'm looking to discuss what may be possible truths not to forever read all the 'google cut and paste" that be going on in it place ...there are some that try to paste the entire bible into a thread

if you have read the article but yet you can't even place what you read in the article and condense it into your own thoughts to share then what does that say about the article

don't wonder I will help you get over your "google cut and paste' addiction as i have helped many


You prove my point once more. you don't want to know the truth. If you did you would have read one of the best articles on the topic refuting a heresy called open theism. Which I'm sure you know about in your vast quest for truth...
Since you are not serious about actually learning something opposed to your own personal opinions I have to leave what I previously wrote as final
Good luck in your 'search'


"kovere" the person that wrote the article is not here to ask any questions about whats in the article..which means just like the bible I just suppose to assume the person that wrote it is right ...that is why I suggested that you use your own thoughts ...why is that so hard to do ...come on break the addiction and try thinking for yourself then you won't have "google cut and paste" the thoughts of others

tribo's photo
Mon 10/27/08 11:13 AM



bigsmile you have helped no one!!!!!


"Tribo" I will make you "phisher" of men if you follow me


that'd be like god saying he'd save me - aint gonna happen - laugh

nor can you make me greaser of food!!!

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