Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: doesn't "Jesus is God" goes against God's law
funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 06:53 AM
Sorry but that is just plain not true. I never used “to” in my analogy. You came up with your own analogy that used “to”. "Skyhook" now you are just plainly decending into nickpicking Again, not true. (That or you misunderstood me.) You are the one who introduced an analogy that included "state change". (You said "ice 'to' water 'to' steam") My analogy made no reference to, mention of or implication regarding that state change (I said "ice, water 'and' steam"). So if you are arguing that an analogy which includes state change is invalid, then we agree. "Skyhook" you use the word "Manifestation" when you were referring to the analogy of how God and Jesus was like ice water and steam ..doesn't Manifest means to change No, the definition of maniest that I've been using, does not mean to change. However, you are free to choose a definition that does mean change. In which case, the analogy would not be logical to you. I, on the other hande, choose to use a definition that does not mean change, so it is perfectly logical to me. oh oh..here's a lesson in debate 101.. once people start harping on definitions that meaning is clear means they have no argument ... it's impossible to describe the Trinity unless you envoke "to change" and the fact you have to describe Jesus's name to distingush him from god confirms that theory "to change" so in this case your use of the word "manifestation" can mean nothing else but to change if not then explain the concept of the The Trinity without using any words or definition that refers "to change" I bet you can't

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Mon 10/27/08 06:56 AM
can to! can not! can to! can not!

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 07:01 AM
Sky, don't forget funches law Paragraph 1: funches is always right Paragraph 2: Should funches for some reason or other not be right, paragraph 1 applies automatically. "invisible" now now ..now of this sour grapes stuff ... remember i'm just here to place you on the path to true rightousness my child

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 07:04 AM
can to! can not! can to! can not! well "Tribo" on this you can be assure that "Skyhook" can not!

krovere Joined Sun 10/26/08 Posts: 14	Mon 10/27/08 07:11 AM
Jesus on multiple occasions claimed He was God. Let alone the numerous scriptures that claim it too .For example Jesus' own words in Revelation 1 verse 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” THe Almighty is ONLY given to GOD. John 14 verse 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Thomas said the the ressurected Jesus: John 20 verse 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Just a few out of hundreds in the scriptures.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 07:19 AM
Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father. Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son. Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment. The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost. We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too. The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed. Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Mon 10/27/08 07:25 AM
Sorry but that is just plain not true. I never used “to” in my analogy. You came up with your own analogy that used “to”. "Skyhook" now you are just plainly decending into nickpicking Again, not true. (That or you misunderstood me.) You are the one who introduced an analogy that included "state change". (You said "ice 'to' water 'to' steam") My analogy made no reference to, mention of or implication regarding that state change (I said "ice, water 'and' steam"). So if you are arguing that an analogy which includes state change is invalid, then we agree. "Skyhook" you use the word "Manifestation" when you were referring to the analogy of how God and Jesus was like ice water and steam ..doesn't Manifest means to change No, the definition of maniest that I've been using, does not mean to change. However, you are free to choose a definition that does mean change. In which case, the analogy would not be logical to you. I, on the other hande, choose to use a definition that does not mean change, so it is perfectly logical to me. oh oh..here's a lesson in debate 101.. once people start harping on definitions that meaning is clear means they have no argument ... it's impossible to describe the Trinity unless you envoke "to change" and the fact you have to describe Jesus's name to distingush him from god confirms that theory "to change" so in this case your use of the word "manifestation" can mean nothing else but to change if not then explain the concept of the The Trinity without using any words or definition that refers "to change" I bet you can't I already did, but you made up your own definition and told me that yours was right and mine was wrong. So you are right - it is completely impossible for me to explain the Trinity to you in any way at all. You win.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 08:01 AM
Jesus on multiple occasions claimed He was God. Let alone the numerous scriptures that claim it too .For example Jesus' own words in Revelation 1 verse 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” THe Almighty is ONLY given to GOD. John 14 verse 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Thomas said the the ressurected Jesus: John 20 verse 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” Just a few out of hundreds in the scriptures. "Kovere" I was referring to that which shows that jesus wasn't God ....something like "God why have you forsaken me"

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 08:04 AM
Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father. Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son. Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment. The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost. We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too. The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed. Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 08:05 AM
Sorry but that is just plain not true. I never used “to” in my analogy. You came up with your own analogy that used “to”. "Skyhook" now you are just plainly decending into nickpicking Again, not true. (That or you misunderstood me.) You are the one who introduced an analogy that included "state change". (You said "ice 'to' water 'to' steam") My analogy made no reference to, mention of or implication regarding that state change (I said "ice, water 'and' steam"). So if you are arguing that an analogy which includes state change is invalid, then we agree. "Skyhook" you use the word "Manifestation" when you were referring to the analogy of how God and Jesus was like ice water and steam ..doesn't Manifest means to change No, the definition of maniest that I've been using, does not mean to change. However, you are free to choose a definition that does mean change. In which case, the analogy would not be logical to you. I, on the other hande, choose to use a definition that does not mean change, so it is perfectly logical to me. oh oh..here's a lesson in debate 101.. once people start harping on definitions that meaning is clear means they have no argument ... it's impossible to describe the Trinity unless you envoke "to change" and the fact you have to describe Jesus's name to distingush him from god confirms that theory "to change" so in this case your use of the word "manifestation" can mean nothing else but to change if not then explain the concept of the The Trinity without using any words or definition that refers "to change" I bet you can't I already did, but you made up your own definition and told me that yours was right and mine was wrong. So you are right - it is completely impossible for me to explain the Trinity to you in any way at all. You win. come on "Skyhook" humour me and explain it again ...come on be a buddy be a pal be a buddy

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Mon 10/27/08 08:19 AM
Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father. Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son. Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment. The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost. We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too. The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed. Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 08:31 AM


krovere Joined Sun 10/26/08 Posts: 14	Mon 10/27/08 08:35 AM
I got ya. In Jesus' case it was like Philippians says that He laid down His Deity as He took human form. Just like He said in the NT about His 2nd coming " no one knows the day or the hour..not even the son" Not in his fully human form. He was just like us and relied on the Holy Spirit to tell Him what was and what was not. you also have somehting called Anthropomorphism in which God uses terms about Himself with human attributes. "reached out His hand" Also we have his secret will and revealed will. "Where are you Adam" He knew where he was. Duet 29:29 speaks of his hidden will. Paul was taken up to Heaven and saw things words could not explain. So God uses language we can identify with. Like God saying He repented for something. God cannot repent if He is SOverign. Here is a link to the greatest articles of Christian faith on theology: http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Reformed-Theology/

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 08:47 AM
Untill gen 2:4 we see Elohim creating. This is plural. Which woulld match what Yahshua said he was the word and created all things through the father. Yahshua was created a spirit being from his Father Yahweh. Which of the Angels have I called my son. Elswhere Yahweh says he is 1. As in the 3rd commandment. The Holy spirit came on the prophets in the OT the same one that came at Pentacost. We do not have any trinity. It is solely the Father who gets things done. Through his people. Yahshua obeyed his father and even said he does nothing unless the father tells him too. The Holy Spirit is not a Diety as Yahweh is Yahshua is divine but he is not Yahweh. The Holy Spirit is the Breath or spirit of Yahweh. As what happened at Pentacost you saw Yahshua as a tongue ( the word of Yahweh) and Yahweh as a fire that can not be consumed. Just like Moses in the desert. Claiming Yahweh as anything but one very well may be Blaspemy which will not be forgiven in this life or the one to come..Blessings..Miles right "Miles" that is what I mean ..this clearly shows that Yahshua was clearly not Yahweh ...and that the trinity is actually a violation of God's law oh c'mon guys, just because you want to interprate the book to suit your needs doesn't mean your correct. look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. you can beleive it if you want - but thats just comfort food like your greasy stuff and beer - it only last til you excreciate it the next day. "Tribo" ...since what was in "Miles" post was also clearly written in bible then how can it be our interpetation ... we didn't write the thing

krovere Joined Sun 10/26/08 Posts: 14	Mon 10/27/08 08:52 AM
"look at all the evangelicals thinking theres a rapture coming or that the rebirth of israel is a sign of the end. " Thats actually a false teaching . The bible clearly says The church IS the Isreal of God. God's promise to Abraham of a 'SEED' was fullfilled in Christ and all who are in Christ are the seed of Abraham. No seperate plan. Jesus also taught many times like the parable of the wheat and the weeds. 'THEY MUST BOTH GROW TOGETHER UNTIL JUDGEMENT DAY" No room for a rapture..just bad theology!!...lol

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 08:57 AM
I got ya. In Jesus' case it was like Philippians says that He laid down His Deity as He took human form. Just like He said in the NT about His 2nd coming " no one knows the day or the hour..not even the son" Not in his fully human form. He was just like us and relied on the Holy Spirit to tell Him what was and what was not. you also have somehting called Anthropomorphism in which God uses terms about Himself with human attributes. "reached out His hand" Also we have his secret will and revealed will. "Where are you Adam" He knew where he was. Duet 29:29 speaks of his hidden will. Paul was taken up to Heaven and saw things words could not explain. So God uses language we can identify with. Like God saying He repented for something. God cannot repent if He is SOverign. Here is a link to the greatest articles of Christian faith on theology: http://www.monergism.com/directory/link_category/Reformed-Theology/ "Kovere"...if you say that God cannot repent for something because he is soverign...so then why did God have to repent for creating Man ...if God is omniscient why would he have to also the excuse that God have to use words that humans can understand and that is why things get mis-interpeted can be only a reflection of the limitations of Gods powers of creating imperfect creatures and his lack of language skills to communicate with them

krovere Joined Sun 10/26/08 Posts: 14	Mon 10/27/08 08:57 AM
Reminds me of the Monty Python skit. "this isn't an argument..yes it is...no it's not..yes it is...(DING) times up thatnk you...That was never 5 minutes.....yes it was"...lol

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Mon 10/27/08 09:00 AM
What Yahshua said if you have seen me you have seen the father onlly means he came in his authority as he was given commandment. He said he was Elohim. The Ps speaks of us being Elohim. A judge usually. Remember Yahshua said he had the right to judge but thier is one who judges you already.. You are like saying using the same words in the English language that Satan is the g-d of this world yet you use that same title for our Messiah Yahshua.. Why? Shalom...Miles

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 10/27/08 09:08 AM
Reminds me of the Monty Python skit. "this isn't an argument..yes it is...no it's not..yes it is...(DING) times up thatnk you...That was never 5 minutes.....yes it was"...lol well "kovere" ..if you're not looking for disagreement and only for total agreement ..isn't that what church is for

krovere Joined Sun 10/26/08 Posts: 14	Mon 10/27/08 09:46 AM
Thats the point. He didn't repent. Just like he knew where Adam was before he asked. And why He knew Abrahams heart before He told him to sacrifice his son and the bible says " Now I know you love me" God knew before. He knows everything. " Not a bird falls out if the sky dead outside of the will ( hidden decree) of God. God' ssoverign over all people and thier hearts: Gen. 20:6; Prov. 21:1; 16:9; Exodus 3:21-22; 12:35-36; 34:23-24; Deut. 2:30; Joshua 11:20; Judges 7:2-3,22; 1 Sam. 14:6,15,20; 2 Sam. 17:14; 1 Kings 12:15; 20:28-29; 2 Chron. 13:14-16; Ezra 1:1,5; 6:22; 7:27; Isa. 45:4-5; Acts 4:27-28; 2 Cor. 8:16-17; Rev. 17:17. As for repenting this is the article I refer to when I teach this subject. ALso we are talking about knowing the hidden will of God. Not even Christians who have the Spirit inside them revealing God' s word to them can understand what God chooses not to reveal: Duet 29:29 " THe hidden things belong to the Lord and the things revealed are for us and our children" Read this article on God Repenting and tell me what you think I have not found one better : http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/1998/1116_God_Does_Not_Repent_Like_a_Man/