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Topic: has the "big bang theory" become a religious belief?
Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 12:53 PM
Umm Thomas Jefferson? happy

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 12:55 PM

just like you to look up a bit of info on something and not read his life story, he became a diest holding to lockes and others take on deism later on.


sorry "Tribo" but starting out as one of the founding fathers he was a protestant ...it wouldn't matter if he became a Satanist afterwards

tribo's photo
Sat 10/25/08 12:57 PM
In the book Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller, Jr., we read on page 92, "Washington was no infidel, if by infidel is meant unbeliever. Washington had an unquestioning faith in Providence and, as we have seen, he voiced this faith publicly on numerous occasions. That this was no mere rhetorical flourish on his part, designed for public consumption, is apparent from his constant allusions to Providence in his personal letters. There is every reason to believe, from a careful analysis of religious references in his private correspondence, that Washington’s reliance upon a Grand Designer along Deist lines was as deep-seated and meaningful for his life as, say, Ralph Waldo Emerson’s serene confidence in a Universal Spirit permeating the ever shifting appearances of the everyday world."

On page 82 of the same book, Boller includes a quote from a Presbyterian minister, Arthur B. Bradford, who was an associate of Ashbel Green another Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. Bradford wrote that Green, "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."

Like truly intelligent people in all times and places, Washington realized how very little we know about life and the workings of the universe. He wrote that the ways of Providence were "inscrutable." Yet he DID the very best he could in all aspects of his life. When things were dark and it looked like the Revolution would be lost, he never gave up. Even when people in his own ranks were turning on him and trying to sink him he persevered because of his deep heartfelt Deistic belief in Providence.

George Washington coupled his genuine belief in Providence with action. After the American defeat at Germantown in 1777 he said, "We must endeavor to deserve better of Providence, and, I am persuaded, she will smile on us." He also wrote that we should take care to do our very best in everything we do so that our, "reason and our own conscience approve."

Washington's toleration for differing religions was made evident by his order to the Continental Army to halt the observance of Pope's Day. Pope's Day was the American equivalent of Guy Fawkes' Day in England. A key part of Pope's Day was the burning of the effigy of the Pope. In his order, Washington described the tradition as, "ridiculous and childish" and that there was no room for this type of behavior in the Continental Army.

The altruism and integrity that Washington possessed is made evident by his restraint in his personal gains. At the successful conclusion of the American Revolution he could have made himself dictator for life. Or he could have allowed others to make him king. Yet, like the Roman General Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus before him, Washington refused to do either.

Preacher Weems has written that on Washington's death bed, "Washington folded his arms decently on his breast, then breathing out 'Father of mercies, take me to thyself,' - he fell asleep." Like almost all of what the Christian fundamentalists have written about Washington, this is not true.

Tobias Lear, Washington's secretary, was with him when he died. The following is his account of Washington's death.

"About ten o'clk he made several attempts to speak to me before he could effect it, at length he said, -'I am just going. Have me decently buried; and do not let my body be put into the vault in less than three days after I am dead.' I bowed assent, for I could not speak. He then looked at me again and said, 'Do you understand me?' I replied, 'Yes.' 'Tis well,' said he.

"About ten minutes before he expired (which was between ten and eleven o'clk) his breathing became easier; he lay quietly; - he withdrew his hand from mine, and felt his own pulse. I saw his countenance change. I spoke to Dr. Craik who sat by the fire; - he came to the bed side. The General's hand fell from his wrist - I took it in mine and put it into my bosom. Dr. Craik put his hands over his eyes and he expired without a struggle or a sigh!"

Like other Deists such as Paine, Jefferson, Voltaire, Franklin, and Allen, Washington did not fear death but looked at it as just another part of nature. Though he didn't speculate much on an after-life, he was comfortable to look at his own death as part of God's design.

George Washington offers us a tremendous example of altruism and positive action. His actions tell us stronger than any words could possibly do to persevere in the face of all obstacles. To never give up and to always combine our sincerely held beliefs with action.

Find out how you can learn much more about George Washington and American History via an online college. The more Deists secure educations in fields like history, the more they can influence professions such as education to enlighten society to the reality of Deism!



Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 12:58 PM


just like you to look up a bit of info on something and not read his life story, he became a diest holding to lockes and others take on deism later on.


sorry "Tribo" but starting out as one of the founding fathers he was a protestant ...it wouldn't matter if he became a Satanist afterwards


laugh laugh I dont really care what he did later on either but AT THE TIME of the writing of the Declaration of Independence he was clearly a Deist funches.

tribo's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:01 PM


just like you to look up a bit of info on something and not read his life story, he became a diest holding to lockes and others take on deism later on.


sorry "Tribo" but starting out as one of the founding fathers he was a protestant ...it wouldn't matter if he became a Satanist afterwards


it specificaly matters what he was at the time he penned the words he wrote and at that time he was a diest.

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:02 PM

Umm Thomas Jefferson? happy


sorry "Krisma" Jefferson was a Protestant ...so ..er.. can you name any other of the founding fathers that you believe to be "Deist"?

Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:03 PM
Funches you need to keep in mind that these were men of the ENLIGHTENMENT

tribo's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:03 PM
Like other Deists such as Paine, Jefferson, Voltaire, Franklin, and Allen, Washington did not fear death but looked at it as just another part of nature. Though he didn't speculate much on an after-life, he was comfortable to look at his own death as part of God's design.


want more?

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:08 PM

In the book Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller, Jr., we read on page 92, "Washington was no infidel, if by infidel is meant unbeliever. Washington had an unquestioning faith in Providence and, as we have seen, he voiced this faith publicly on numerous occasions. That this was no mere rhetorical flourish on his part, designed for public consumption, is apparent from his constant allusions to Providence in his personal letters. There is every reason to believe, from a careful analysis of religious references in his private correspondence, that Washington’s reliance upon a Grand Designer along Deist lines was as deep-seated and meaningful for his life as, say, Ralph Waldo Emerson’s serene confidence in a Universal Spirit permeating the ever shifting appearances of the everyday world."

On page 82 of the same book, Boller includes a quote from a Presbyterian minister, Arthur B. Bradford, who was an associate of Ashbel Green another Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. Bradford wrote that Green, "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."

Like truly intelligent people in all times and places, Washington realized how very little we know about life and the workings of the universe. He wrote that the ways of Providence were "inscrutable." Yet he DID the very best he could in all aspects of his life. When things were dark and it looked like the Revolution would be lost, he never gave up. Even when people in his own ranks were turning on him and trying to sink him he persevered because of his deep heartfelt Deistic belief in Providence.

George Washington coupled his genuine belief in Providence with action. After the American defeat at Germantown in 1777 he said, "We must endeavor to deserve better of Providence, and, I am persuaded, she will smile on us." He also wrote that we should take care to do our very best in everything we do so that our, "reason and our own conscience approve."

Washington's toleration for differing religions was made evident by his order to the Continental Army to halt the observance of Pope's Day. Pope's Day was the American equivalent of Guy Fawkes' Day in England. A key part of Pope's Day was the burning of the effigy of the Pope. In his order, Washington described the tradition as, "ridiculous and childish" and that there was no room for this type of behavior in the Continental Army.

The altruism and integrity that Washington possessed is made evident by his restraint in his personal gains. At the successful conclusion of the American Revolution he could have made himself dictator for life. Or he could have allowed others to make him king. Yet, like the Roman General Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus before him, Washington refused to do either.

Preacher Weems has written that on Washington's death bed, "Washington folded his arms decently on his breast, then breathing out 'Father of mercies, take me to thyself,' - he fell asleep." Like almost all of what the Christian fundamentalists have written about Washington, this is not true.

Tobias Lear, Washington's secretary, was with him when he died. The following is his account of Washington's death.

"About ten o'clk he made several attempts to speak to me before he could effect it, at length he said, -'I am just going. Have me decently buried; and do not let my body be put into the vault in less than three days after I am dead.' I bowed assent, for I could not speak. He then looked at me again and said, 'Do you understand me?' I replied, 'Yes.' 'Tis well,' said he.

"About ten minutes before he expired (which was between ten and eleven o'clk) his breathing became easier; he lay quietly; - he withdrew his hand from mine, and felt his own pulse. I saw his countenance change. I spoke to Dr. Craik who sat by the fire; - he came to the bed side. The General's hand fell from his wrist - I took it in mine and put it into my bosom. Dr. Craik put his hands over his eyes and he expired without a struggle or a sigh!"

Like other Deists such as Paine, Jefferson, Voltaire, Franklin, and Allen, Washington did not fear death but looked at it as just another part of nature. Though he didn't speculate much on an after-life, he was comfortable to look at his own death as part of God's design.

George Washington offers us a tremendous example of altruism and positive action. His actions tell us stronger than any words could possibly do to persevere in the face of all obstacles. To never give up and to always combine our sincerely held beliefs with action.

Find out how you can learn much more about George Washington and American History via an online college. The more Deists secure educations in fields like history, the more they can influence professions such as education to enlighten society to the reality of Deism!


wow "Tribo" nice "google cut and paste" ...but it still doesn't make Washington a deist ..

even so Washington believe in a God ...but you and "Krisma" keep failing to present exactly where did their concept of God come from if not from Christianity ...

Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:12 PM
Funches, Deists tend to hold faith in "The God of Nature" Its IS NOT the same conceptualization as the biblical god. No sir. Look it up! happy

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:13 PM

Funches you need to keep in mind that these were men of the ENLIGHTENMENT


"Krisma" ..during the spanish inqusition wasn't the inqusitor supposely of enlightenment ...

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:15 PM

Like other Deists such as Paine, Jefferson, Voltaire, Franklin, and Allen, Washington did not fear death but looked at it as just another part of nature. Though he didn't speculate much on an after-life, he was comfortable to look at his own death as part of God's design.


want more?


"Tribo"...what God design are you referring to ...the christian God perhaps?

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:17 PM

Funches, Deists tend to hold faith in "The God of Nature" Its IS NOT the same conceptualization as the biblical god. No sir. Look it up! happy


"Krisma" why are you trying to tell me about Deistism" but fail to present me the names of the founding fathers that supposely were "deists"

Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:17 PM
Funches there is no real consensus on when the "age of enlightenment" began so if you are going to now try to say that crazy over-zealous Christians also existed during that period, then I guess you have no argument out of me. They have been around for the past 2000 years or so. :tongue:

Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:19 PM


Funches, Deists tend to hold faith in "The God of Nature" Its IS NOT the same conceptualization as the biblical god. No sir. Look it up! happy


"Krisma" why are you trying to tell me about Deistism" but fail to present me the names of the founding fathers that supposely were "deists"


Thomas Jefferson and Tribo posted that excellent article which lists several others. If you are simply going to ignore our data but present nothing of your own, what are we supposed to do here? :tongue:

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:20 PM

Funches there is no real consensus on when the "age of enlightenment" began so if you are going to now try to say that crazy over-zealous Christians also existed during that period, then I guess you have no argument out of me. They have been around for the past 2000 years or so. :tongue:


"Krisma" I just want you to explain where the "deist" concept of a God came from if not from Christianity

Krimsa's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:28 PM


Funches there is no real consensus on when the "age of enlightenment" began so if you are going to now try to say that crazy over-zealous Christians also existed during that period, then I guess you have no argument out of me. They have been around for the past 2000 years or so. :tongue:


"Krisma" I just want you to explain where the "deist" concept of a God came from if not from Christianity


I already did. I posted what the fundamentalist belief of a deist is exactly. You agreed with that definition and if not, I will find another. A deist believes in a creator but it generally is described as the "god of nature" and this tends to mean that they will not argue with the idea that a creator exists and the universe is a result of this creation, however they do not define it in terms of being Christian in origin. Its apples and oranges.

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:28 PM



Funches, Deists tend to hold faith in "The God of Nature" Its IS NOT the same conceptualization as the biblical god. No sir. Look it up! happy


"Krisma" why are you trying to tell me about Deistism" but fail to present me the names of the founding fathers that supposely were "deists"


Thomas Jefferson and Tribo posted that excellent article which lists several others. If you are simply going to ignore our data but present nothing of your own, what are we supposed to do here? :tongue:


well "Krisma" if you had bother to read "Tribo" post you would have notice that he included the name "Voltaire" ...I didn't know that "Voltaire" was one of the founding fathers ...

this means that "Tribo" is just resorting to the "google cut and paste" of stuff without reading it first and presenting inaccurate information to gushy up his argument

tribo's photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:29 PM
It was formed and came about as a part of natural [nature] concepts ans was well held during the beginnings of the enlightenment. it originally had nothing to do with a christian god but of natural hapenstance.

no photo
Sat 10/25/08 01:31 PM



Funches there is no real consensus on when the "age of enlightenment" began so if you are going to now try to say that crazy over-zealous Christians also existed during that period, then I guess you have no argument out of me. They have been around for the past 2000 years or so. :tongue:


"Krisma" I just want you to explain where the "deist" concept of a God came from if not from Christianity


I already did. I posted what the fundamentalist belief of a deist is exactly. You agreed with that definition and if not, I will find another. A deist believes in a creator but it generally is described as the "god of nature" and this tends to mean that they will not argue with the idea that a creator exists and the universe is a result of this creation, however they do not define it in terms of being Christian in origin. Its apples and oranges.


but "Krisma" since Thomas Jefferson was a know protestant...wouldn't he was derive his concept of God from that faith and later may have change his views and splinter off into another sect

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