So, my friend and I have had this ongoing argument that I hope you fine males can finally conclude for us. Ladies, please chime in with your opinions and experiences as well.

When a woman is smart -- aka can carry a conversation about things beyond TV and shoes -- has a career, is educated, etc, are you more or less apt to be attracted to her?

My opinion is you should be more attracted to her. Obviously she can support herself and isn't looking for a free ride or a sugar daddy. Also, she's interesting and unique, and guys, you can get a dumb mannequin anywhere. And a woman who is smart thinks of some VERY interesting things to do in bed. Plus, you can bring her home to your family and be proud of calling her yours.

My friend's opinion is that it's intimidating to men -- that we women should dumb ourselves down in order not to scare them away. IMHO, if we have to do that we're dating men who aren't worthy of us in the first place.

So... what's your opinion?

I think its defo down to male preferrence. Each guy is different, some may be drawn to intelligent women, some may be intimidated....dont think there is a straight answer to this...its all about preferrences of the individual.

After years and years of dating girls who kept losing maze tests to rats, mice, tapeworms, amoebas, etc., I finally realized that I needed to find someone with an actual functioning brain.

This proved to be somewhat difficult, as Illinois is not known for producing much other than corn, dead Presidents, and unusual voting results.

I did meet one person who is, without doubt, the most intelligent person I have ever known, and she is actually from Illinois. And I didn't have to talk down to her, I never had to explain or oversimplify -- I could just be myself. She IS interesting, unique, creative beyond compare, and an absolute joy to spend time with.

Which is nice.

And quite the turn-on, as well. I'm thinking I need someone who has a mandatory 160 IQ, at least.

Intimidating? Hardly. I suppose, if I felt I couldn't hold my own in an intellectual discussion, I might be intimidated. But that is simply not the case. If anything, I revel in the opportunity to be with someone who can actually make me think, instead of boring me to death....

I'm not the smartest guy in the world, nor will I ever be the richest. But I don't think that this defines me. Basically, what defines me is that I am someone who might not always do the "smart" thing, but I live my life and learn from it.

That said, I want a woman who is smart enough to know how to take care of herself and can talk to me about anything she wants. I don't care if she has an education, meaning college degree. I think people put WAYYYY to much emphasis on if a person has went to college. I don't have a degree, but I did alot of things (in my last career) that most engineer's (with degrees) did. Basically, I learned by doing...nuff said. Just because I don't have the paper that says I am smart, doesn't mean I am a dumbass.

Women should not dumb themselves down. I want a fun woman, a live life the best I can woman, a woman who will work with me when money gets tight and we have to figure things out...cause in those moments you really do find out alot about each other. Smart women don't intimidate me, but some can piss me off cause they try to hard to use their smarts to put guys down. I don't like these women, and they can take a mile jog and run off the tip of my d*ck for all I care.

Anyways...I like smart, logical, common sense women.

I feel that it all comes down to maturity, experience and confidence. If a man cannot handle a woman who has the attributes that you describe,
then he needs to improve on one or all of the above.

ED

I've known people--male and female--who were quite low in intelligence but high in such qualities as kindness, humor, and loyalty.

Intelligence is a good thing to have, but it is by no means a trump card. And I'm sure everyone knows at least one or two examples of the type of person whose intelligence is a distinct liability. (Stop looking at me! *stamps foot angrily*)

One of my favorite young men (not Helmut; he's much too smart for his own good) is, and will always be, quite simple. He IS good at applying the intelligence he does have to his problems, but if you met him in a bar and talked to him for a few minutes you would probably either A) not be able to understand a single word he says (his powers of verbal self-expression are quite limited) or B) think he was a retard (he's not, but it takes him a LOOONNNG time to get going, mentally speaking). Nevertheless, I consider him fascinating for a number of reasons, and actually created a character based on him for a series of short stories that I've been working on for the last couple of years. Spending time with him is great fun.

With regard to men who are intimidated by intelligent females: That's ok with me! I've noticed, however, that a guy who will deliberately choose a woman of low intelligence for marriage will usually cheat on her with someone he considers "smart". yours in Chaos, Scarlett

It is so more attractive to be with a Woman that is smart,independent, and Beautiful But when Her whole attitude is me against the World including the person Shes with Thats when Guys ethier go into attack Mode, or Hit it and Quit it Mode Just take a look at what you wrote, just about everything say i have something too prove, i have too be defensive, i am better than that so call Air Head that doesnt have what i have I am Woman Hear Me Roar Thats very attractive A Man isnt going too put His Heart into A Woman that he knows he is going to have too challenge all the time Someone thats alwayys going to have too teach Him a Lesson I guess as long as they continue too make Toys with Batteries, and Mans roll in a Womans life will become, less, and less

I had a friend tell me that I needed to act different than I do. I refuse to be anyone different from who I am. If I meet a man who isn't as intelligent, but can hold a conversation and make me laugh..I am keeping him!

It's all just a personal preference. I know a guy who is extremely intelligent, but never, ever acts like he's better than anyone else. It's definitely a turn on.

You should bang him!

shhhhh heres a secret i graduated 4 years of college,got my bachelor degree in project management,kept a 4.0 gpa and partied,worked a parttime job and played baseball at FIU,florida internatiol university, also took summer courses in construction engineering,structual,m.e.p.,civil so im not as stupid as people on here think i am.but im still a die hard hurricanes fan,go canes and i guess golden panthersthis is why i put this on this thread cause people ignore me

If only he was close enough... .

OK... a few replies here... bear with me:

First, to clarify, I am NOT being snooty about this. Actually, one of the reasons we began our little argument was because I was feeling very much the opposite -- that my intellect was a BAD thing, and not something to be proud of. (AKA "geek".) So I apologize if my post came off that way -- anyone who knows me knows I'm far from egotistical. It's one of the very few things that will make me dislike anyone right off the bat. Just... ick.

Backwards because the replies below this box are backwards...



I never said that was my particular attitude brian, but I'm assuming you have had similar experiences with women like that. For that I am sorry, but know that not all smart women are that way, and it's certainly not relegated to intellect alone, either.



Not my point. My point was that I don't agree with my friend when she says I have to pretend to be someone I am not to be attractive. I am not better than anyone, but I am different in some ways. Different doesn't mean better, but according to my friend and my own experiences, to men, different tends to mean worse. So my point is, why do men want cookie cutter women? Or at least, why do they pretend to if they don't?

I think maybe you have had a few too many experiences with women who think they are better than you. I am sorry for that and am sure you deserve better. And no, that's not sarcasm.



I don't want to teach a man anything if he doesn't also want to teach me. I want a man who can challenge me and who enjoys a challenge in me as well. I want a man who knows how to keep up a conversation and enjoys it.



But that is the antithesis of what I have said here... a toy with batteries is FAR from a good conversationalist.



ENTIRELY agreed. It is one aspect of many a well-rounded person can have. And many intelligent people can be quite assholish -- a trait that "NO"s it for me EVERY TIME, no matter how smart he is.

Your friend does sound like an interesting person, scarlet. I have many friends like that. To each their own. I just would like to know why so many men want stupid women... or, to be more accurate, women who PRETEND to be stupid.

Ed, I'll just say I'm in agreement with ya.



Oh Goof, you're brilliant and you know it!



I don't like them either. They're bad. Bad people. I would like a smart man to be with (which is why I now have Darren -- yay!), but I certainly don't use intellect as a gauge of weather a person is a good person. We all have things about our other half that we want, though, right? As for putting guys -- or anyone for that matter -- down, I do not EVER do that. I think I'd seriously rather skin myself alive than hurt another person's feelings deliberately. Hell, even accidentally sucks ass.



I'm thinking this may be the crux of it for me. I simply want to be with someone who makes me feel good, and one of the things that makes me feel good is a good conversation about something fascinating.

...it seems to me the topic is a little misconstrued. To clarify, again, I'm not asking why people ARE stupid, I am asking why guys want girls to BE stupid. Not putting anyone down. Thanks.



Yes, of course. My point is where are all the guys who have a preference for smarter girls then? Seriously, though -- 9.99 out of 10 aren't the smart-girl type... and I don't know why. That's my question. Why SO MANY?

Of course, I'm taken now, so this is more a study in dating and male psychology for me atm, but it interests me and may help others. And who knows where I, myself, will be in the future?

agreed. And here's a wrench thrown in. Some men SAY they are attracted to the intelligence and confidence, & that it doesn't intimidate them, but then when into the relationship they feel totally 1-uped by same said qualities.

I know. It's happened more than once to me. I graduated Summa Cum Laude from college w/a double major, am ordained, a prolific speaker, and now a producer/director in a pretty high-profile business position.

A guy will tell me what an incredible catch I am with the smarts, wit and confidence. Then knee deep in alligators, he is outsmarted, outwitted and definitely under the table with the confidence. Now suddenly he is overwhelmed. *sigh*

Yep. It's happened more than once.

No way in h*ll do I want a woman to pretend she is dumb if she is smart.

Some guys want that because stupid, in a lot of cases, means controllable.

Myself, I want someone who, when asked if she thinks there might be intelligent life in the Universe besides mankind, can actually come up with a coherent answer AND be able to say why she feels that way.

Fade intimidates me!

And Snarky, I knew you weren't being egotistical with your post. I know that some guys are intimidated by smart women who hold careers (among other things).

See, I started working when I was 19 at this Chemical plant. I was enrolled in a co-op program, which meant going to school and working. I started making money, and it was good (this was back in 1993) and so I basically blew off college cause I was in. I worked their for over 14 years, making more money than guys with two or four year degrees. I was respected cause I knew what I was doing and people knew they could talk to me. I used to have to talk to engineers on behalf of customers cause the Engineers are just fickle people...they only understand that "third plane" talk. Back in April, I had had enough of this career...so I left, knowing that I would basically start over in something new. That new career happens to be in the medical field, and I am not going for a degree either.

My point was that I don't care if one has gone to college. I think it is great if people do and succeed. But I was a success in my last career basically by learning OJT and using common sense. Books can't teach you common sense. If a woman is a success by moving up the ladder at Wal Mart, and she is attractive to me in all phases...I will date her. Just because she is at Wal Mart doesn't mean she sucks, or is dumb.

Fade has all those credentials, but you know something? You talk to her, and she never tries to play that she is smarter than you. She is a successful woman, and she should be damn proud of it. But for guys to be intimidated by her cause she has achieved all this success is just mindboggling. Fade, the person, is what they should be focusing on here. Not Fade, the successful career woman.

Okay. I'm done.

I LIKE ..

BIIIIIG freekin surprise that I agree with ya, Goof. Thank-you for summing it up so nicely.

Though I think you're doing it a bit backwards here. You're saying why you would date a woman who doesn't SEEM as intellectual as she is, even though you like intellectual women, because of who she really is as opposed to how she may come off -- no shallow impressions which I very much respect -- correct? But I'm asking why a guy WON'T date a woman BECAUSE she's intellectual. Quite the opposite, but also a very interesting viewpoint on the subject.

So... it seems to come down to two reasons: Dumb guys who don't want to be one-upped by their SOs and smart guys who want all the control.

...thank God I met Darren, or I'd be pretty sadly disapointed in the male gender.

I have seen, that intellectual guys usually either marry women who are "dumbed down" or they are p*ssy whooped by their intellectual significant other. "Dumb guys" just don't want to feel inferior. I mean, in human history, man has always viewed himself as the "better" sex...the "smarter" sex. That's why some guys, no matter how smart they are, will treat women like they should not be on their level. Times have changed, and some guys (like me) can see that while a woman is successful, it in no way means that you should fear them. And you are dead on Snarky....no shallow impressions.

I also find it funny that some men/women who have college degrees act like they should never have even graduated. I mean, when I know more than an engineer (a person who spent four years at college), then....it is bad.

I find it to be a turn on. I don't feel challenged with my intellect because I am always learning (even if slowly at times) and welcome the chance for someone to teach me a different point of view or logic behind something. Would be nice if I could find that here in Illinois but as Lex has already explained it is a rare commodity here.