Yeah thats exactly how it went down...... Anyway, I give up. As Abra mentioned, you can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink. It just wont happen. Besides, that would be just as brutal and misguided as the Christians attempting to force their biblical teachings down the collective throats of the skeptics. If people are interested in evolution, they will put out the effort on their own to comprehend it.

Well show me one...and I will re-think

Show you what? A transitional fossil? Feral we have been over this and you have been presented with countless websites for your perusal. You refuse to comprehend it so why should anyone bother with you anymore in regards to it? Here is a website that will show you something that will surely cause your skin to crawl. Human transitional fossils.

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/transitional.html

nope not a fossil....show me an animal that has changed from one animal to another....that is now here....just one.....not so tough....we only have 30 million species on this planet...so come up with one...and you will have my attention.
will look at website.

I looked at this is the thing krimsa......it's still the same species...so show me where I was a gorilla and then turned into a human....show me those fossils.....And if this is the case then gorillas would no longer be here....because I am.....So sorry no proof as of yet.

Feral, pretty much that website will show you a set of transitional fossils that has occurred over the millennial and we are the end result. You and I. There is 29 evidences for Macroevolution. 2.6 million years to current day.

Evolution is impossible.......


1. Complex organisms arose spontaneously from a primordial soup of chemicals that randomly came together in the beginning of what we now define as “life.”

2. These basic life forms supposedly replicated (duplicated) themselves and mutated into more complex forms over great stretches of time.

3. No one saw these processes take place, and no scientist or group of scientists has ever replicated the primordial beginning of life from pure chemistry to biology.3

4. Given these assumptions, we can be nothing more than a bag of meat and bones with electrical energy coursing through it.

5. Evolutionists claim that the stuff of the universe was originally a super-heated, super-concentrated mass of inert material.4 (Of course, this is speculation since no one was present at the beginning to record the beginning.)

6. The extraordinary heat alone of this original primordial “stuff” would have made the potential for life to spontaneously generate impossible to evolve.

7. There is no way to get life from non-life. Something from nothing is mathematically, scientifically, and logically impossible.

8. The impossibility of spontaneous generation is one of the first fundamental tenets of science that a child learns, and yet it is a basic tenet of the evolutionary scientist whether he cares to admit it or not.

9. Evolutionists believe that life came into being in a sterile environment. The intense heat of the primordial world would have killed any potential life form. (This is a testable hypothesis today.)

10. In addition to being unable to account for life from non-life, there are the intangibles that are equally impossible to account for given evolutionary and materialist assumptions—the non-physical mind, the non-physical “laws” of logic, non-physical reason, the immateriality of morality, and the impossibility of the evolution of INFORMATION to make everything work.

11. We need to keep reminding evolutionists that they have not explained or demonstrated through empirical evidence how even the most simple organism got its start in a hostile chemical soup billions of years ago let alone evolve into what we are today.

12. Information theorist Hubert Yockey argued that chemical evolutionary research faces the following problem: “Research on the origin of life seems to be unique in that the conclusion has already been authoritatively accepted. . . . What remains to be done is to find the scenarios which describe the detailed mechanisms and processes by which this happened. One must conclude that, contrary to the established and current wisdom a scenario describing the genesis of life on earth by chance and natural causes which can be accepted on the basis of fact and not faith has not yet been written.

13. In a book he wrote in 1992, Yockey argued that the idea of abiogenesis from a primordial soup is a failed paradigm: “Although at the beginning the paradigm was worth consideration, now the entire effort in the primeval soup paradigm is self-deception on the ideology of its champions.


14. Of course, the evolutionist must explain the source of the information that makes up what we know as DNA.

* Was information part of the original primordial world?
* Did information arise spontaneously?
* How did information organize itself to bring about our designed world?

15. The computer analogy.

* The components of a computer did not arise randomly.
* Computers didn’t just put themselves together.
* The non-material information needed to run a computer was designed.
* Without the program, a computer is worthless.
* There is no program without a programmer.
* What’s true in the lesser case (a machine) is true in the greater case (a human being and all living things).

16. To begin with chemicals and end with humans (let alone everything in between) requires changes that increase the genetic information up the evolutionary ladder. This would be like claiming 2 plus 2 equals 5000.

17. “ONE of the mysteries of the universe is why it should speak the language of mathematics. Numbers and the relationships between them are, after all, just abstract reasoning. Yet mathematics has shown itself to be particularly adept at describing both the contents of the universe and the forces that act on them. Now comes a paper which argues that one branch of the subject—geometry—could form the basis of all the laws of physics.”7 So where did the math come from?

4 Here’s how an evolutionist explains the “Big Bang theory.” Notice how he appeals to other theories to explain a theory: “Big Bang theory uses Einstein’s general theory of relativity to trace the history of the universe back to a moment in time when the entire universe was concentrated in a point of infinite density, called a singularity. This account of the history of the universe is simplified, because it ignores quantum mechanics: at a point in time called the Planck time (now thought to have been 13.7 billion years ago), the universe was small enough to be subject to quantum mechanical effects. To know exactly what impact these effects would have had on the universe before Planck-time would require a theory of quantum gravity, which combines general relativity with quantum mechanics. We can thus consider from two standpoints the question of whether Big Bang theory says the universe came from nothing: from the simplified standpoint that uses general relativity alone, and from the more complete, but murkier, standpoint that uses quantum gravity” (Mark I. Vuletic).

5 Yockey, “A calculation of the probability of spontaneous biogenesis by information theory,” Journal of Theoretical Biology (1977), 67:377–398, quotes from pages 379, 396.

6 Hubert P. Yockey, Information Theory and Molecular Biology (Cambridge University Press, 1992), 336.

7 “Geometry is All,” The Economist (November 22, 2007).

Wrong and wrong and wrong...

Feral, so you are saying you dont see the changes in the skulls? Are you asserting that they are ALL homo sapien in genus? You do realize that there is a difference between gorillas and chimpanzees?

If these skulls are just all human as you seem to believe (based on your extensive training in the field of paleontology). Then how do you explain the initial DNA sequencing that is being performed on a 38,000 year old Neanderthal bone found in a cave in Croatia. The initial stage mitochondrial results (traced through the mother) showed that Neanderthal man was DIVERGENT of homo sapien. That was only a little under 40,000 years ago.

Krimsa they are still the same species........I have always said that a species can change within itself...and just because it does, does not make it 4 billion years old..

Listen you can believe that you came from a monkey I have no problem with that....just as I can believe I did not....And I don't need to explain dna sequencing to you because it is not necessary.....Like I said.....if this happen then we would see it today....we would have seen in the last 400 years....but we haven't and why is that...well you will claim because it takes longer then 400 years, and I say bahoogie to it all.


Just like I can prove through archeology that what was said in the Bible is backed up by history....don't believe it your choice......but I do....mine...

The bible says that a thousand years is like a day to God.

Is it then unrealistic to ascribe a big bang, or billions of years of evolution as the vehicle of creation of a divine and timeless entity? Because time is a relative concept, existing in a state of timelessness would negate the temporal constraints placed on creation.

No one was alive when it was going down, and there has never been a literal time frame given for creation. Thus, the 7 days of creation described by moses (mosha) could have taken place over the billions of years attributed to the age of the universe and the earth itself.

As far as evolution, no one, christian or atheist, can argue AGAINST evolution and natrual selection. It is a proven FACT that creatures adapt over time, through mutation and natural selection, to survive in the continuously changing enviornment that is earth. Those creatures best suited to survive in a given environment will, while those poorly suited will die off.

The fossil record shows multiple creatures that have existed and died off throughout the life of the earth. Similarly, the bible chronicles different ages of the earth, from a time when angels mated with humans and produced being known as the Nephilim (found in the book of Genesis), to the complete destruction of the face of the earth during the fall of lucifer, to the cataclysmic loss of species during the great flood of Noah.

All that being said, it is plausible to assert that there could have been a big bang as science describes it. It could have been the vehicle of creation. Ultimately however, whatever set in motion the necessary energy and sequence of events to get from point A to point B was a direct result of the will of the creator.

One of the fundamental theorems of biology states that "no cell can come from anything other than a pre-existing cell" Meaning, if I throw a bunch of chemicals on the ground, call it primordial soup or what have you, there is no way animal or plant cells will result. Thus, congruent with the biblical story of creation AND scientific thought, the first plant and animal cells must have been created wholly intact at some point. Over time, through many contributory factors, these cells have evolved again and again to create the biodiversity that currently exists in the world, but humans and animals were shaped by the creator as he saw fit, and humans were created in the image of God himself.

I dont care what you believe feral. Thats what I just said. No they arent the same species. A child could deduce this. No you dont have to try to refute Deoxyribonucleic acid evidence because that is something that would be quite impossible for you to do. I have explained to you over and over again countless times that the theory of evolution is not proclaiming that we "evolved from apes" It is making the assertion that we DIVERGED from chimpanzee (not gorillas or Bonobos or Gibbons) a little under 6 million years ago. That is what you are looking at in those photos and that is why the sequencing is not of homo sapien descent.

That statement right there shows that you have absolutely no clue how evolution even works. By that analogy only one species could ever exist at a time!

This is so silly Feral. You demand proof in ways that aren't realistic.

Yet, you believe in a bible on pure faith that says that you've been so bad that God had to have his son nailed to a pole to pay for your rebellous attitude.

Why do you believe on pure faith that you've been so nasty toward your very own creator.

I have never felt at odds with my creator Feral. If anyone wants to claim that I'm at odds with my creator they're going to have to prove that to me, because it's been my experience that I'm not at odds with my creator.

You religious people truly have no right to demand 'proof' of anything because you have none to offer for what you are trying to sell.

You're religious believes are entirely faith-based. There is absolutely no proof of the Bible's divinity whatsoever.

On the contrary there is tons of proof why it can't be the words of a divine supreme being. Not the least of which is that it is completely inconsistent with the traits that the divine being is supposed to possess.

It's basically proven itself to be a lie via its very own contradictions and inconsistencies.

Again I will post what I have said on the subject in previous discussions on this.......just because my answers have not changed and easier to do so.

First off I want to say that every message that I share with you, I support my ideas with scripture. The Bible to me is the infallible, inspired, inherent Word of the Living God. I believe each and every word from Genesis to Revelation, cover to cover. It is the owners manual for human being-a must read. And one of my jobs as a Christian is to "Be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks me a reason of the hope that is in us with meakness and fear." (1 PH 3:15) In the last 100 years, it is fair to say that Christians have not done a good job, to answer the evolution theory; and we have allowed this philosophy of evolution; actually, it is a religion; we have allowed this religion to take over our school system, or legal system, our whole thinking process as a society is based on a philosophy which has zero scientific evidence. NONE

Creationlists have offered for more than 15 years a 1/4 million dollars to anyone who has real scientific evidence for evolution. There has been no claim of the money because there is no evidence. I understand that people believe in it, but that does not make it science. I am hoping to strengthen you faith in the Word of God and build your confidence in the Creator God, to help you stand up to the evolution bullies who try to intimidate you and deny your trust in God. You cannot buy into the lie that evolution had anything to do with your existence, or the lie that claims that God kick stated evolution and then took a huge vacation only to come around to find human beings polluting His planet. You know, there are Christian Scientist claiming to be evolutionist as well. This angers me,, but not as much as the canvoluted-belief angers the atheists. Pultzer Prize winning sociobiologist Edward Wilson barks "humankind evolved by Darwinian, natural selection, genetic chance and environmental necessity, not God, made the species." Another leading evolutionist, and one time ordained priest, Francisco Ayala, said in a recent interview, Darwin’s "greatest accomplishment was to show that: living beings can be explained as the result of a natural process, natural selection, without any need to resort to a Creator or other external agent. In essence, he attempted to nullify the scriptures and the writings of Moses, King David, the Apostles John, & Paul. Paul told Colossians that Jesus Christ created all things in heaven and earth visible and invisible, all things were created by Him and for Him.

There are two ways to look at this world. That is called your world-view. If you follow Darwinian thinking, I wold like to change your world view. How do you view this world? Some people look at the world from this direction (up) Some look at it the other way (down) The way you view the world is how you answer the Four Great Questions of life. There are 4 fundamental question regarding life that every single religion on earth tries to answer. The way you answer those questions is totally determined by your world-view. Some people look at the world and say “It’s amazing – a big bang made this world from nothing! “That is a humanist world-view based on the theory of evolution. Other people look at the world and say, “It’s is incredibly designed. There must be an intelligent
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designer! That is the creationist world- view based on creation by God. And those two world-views are at war with each other. I tell you straight out- “Somebody is wrong!” I don’t have a problem showing the evolutionist that he is wrong even though he might not accept it.

If the evolution theory were true, how would you answer the Great Questions of Life? Who am I? What am I worth? Well if evolution is true you are nothing important. You are just a piece of protoplasm that washed up on the beach. You are not worth a thing. Actually, you are part of the problem because you are one of the polutters of the environment. Just breathing you and contributing to the global warming crisis. You are creating green house gases and taking us back before the ice age. Environmentist want you gone. The more humans gone the happier the environment. And that is normal thinking if the evolution theory is true. Where did I come from? Well if evolution is true, you cam from a cosmic burb about 20 billion years ago. Why am I here? What is the purpose of life? Well if evolution is true, there is not purpose to life; you might as well have loads of fun, if it feels good, go ahead and do it. There would be no divine authority to watch over you and keep you accountable. Where am I going when I die? Well, if evolution is true, you are going to the grave to be recycled into a worm or into a plant. You see, the Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth (Gen 1:1) So if that is true, that puts a

whole different set of answers to those questions. That means we better try to figure out who God is, and find out what He wants and do what He says. Because he created this place, which means He owns it, which means He makes the rules. We better find out what He wants while we are alive. And if you are not obeying His rules, you may be in trouble on of these days. Satan doesn’t like this idea that God created this earth. So he came to Eve in the Garden of Eden. The first thing he said to the woman was, “has God really said.” He is trying to raise doubts about God’s world. Satan always tries to raise doubts and that is one of the reasons we have confusion over Bible versions. Which version can we trust; which versions are inaccurate?

I will ascend about the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the most high. You see, satan wants to be God. But the job is not available and he is all upset that he can not be God, so he lied to Eve and told her she could be like God. Satan loathes us almost as much as he hates God because we are made in God’s image. That is why he went after Even and she fell for it because it sounded to good. “Wow I get to be God! Hitler was used by satan. Let me share a quote from him. “If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough the people will believe it.”

The second thing he said to Even “You will not really die if you eat the fruit.” Basically, he is calling God a liar. And the third thing he said to the woman is the thing I am most interested in for this message. He said, “Eve if you eat from that tree you will be like God.” Right there is where the whole idea of evolution got started. If didn’t start with Darwin, it started with satan and the Garden of Eden.
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Several religions teach that you will become like God when you die. Even key religious leaders believe we are more than God’s created beings. Kenneth Copeland made this statement in one of his messages. “Gods reason for creating Adam was the desire to reproduce himself. (Adam) was not a little like God. He as not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even Adam was as much like God as you can get, the same as Jesus. Adam in the Garden of Eden was God manifest in the flesh. You don’t have a God in you, you are one.” I don’t know that he was retracted that statement which is on tape. Kenneth Hagin said, “The believer is as much an incarnation as as Jesus of Nazareth. The believer is called Christ. That who we are; were Christ! No Kenneth, Jesus is the one and only true God, we are nothing like God and we couldn’t do His job. The job is taken. If you think you are Christ, try walking on water, someday. Lucifer is the one who wants to be God.


In this section I will talk about science. If you go to a large library, you will find many books about science. If you go to a large library, you will find Good science books. You will also find many, which have a little poison mixed in with the truths about nature and the universe. It is not the 98% good food I am against, it is the poison mixed in. I like to read about nature but I can’t always trust the books because to often facts are ignored to endorse an agenda.

I am not against science books just the ones that contain the poison. Let me read to you what is published in a 1st grade text book. “The earth has changed much since its formation 4.5 billion years ago. Some life on earth has adapted to these changes.” Come on, is the earth 4.5 billion years old? Absolutely not! But if you tell that to a 1st grader, he/she is going to believe you. 1st graders believe everything you tell them. Dr. Stephen Meyer the outspoken creationist say buy the time a young adult figures out evolution is a lie, supported by nothing, they are humanists much of the time and could care less about faith in something else that could let them down. Atheists know, you keep poisoning the young mind until it believes whatever you say. 2nd grade science book read, “since it formation 4.5 billion years ago, there is organic evolution, Original life .

Life has to get started from non-living material, even today, nobody has said how that could happen. Then we are told about macro-evolution that is where an animal changes to a different kind of animal. Has anyone here ever witnessed the birth of an animal? Even human? Did the animal resemble its mother’s kind? No one has ever seen a dog produce anything but dogs. Dogs are probably the animal more people pay attention too then any other animal, even if the dog, wolf, coyote had a common ancestor every 1st grader knows they are the same kind of animal. The bible says the animals are going to bring forth after their KIND. The dog the wold are the same kind of animal but there are different species.

Darwin tried to fool everybody in his book Origin of Species by changing the work KIND to Species. Then lastly, we are encouraged to believe in micro-evolution. This is changes with the KINDS. Animals can produce a whole variety of offspring, long hair, short hair, long legged, short legged, that happens. But the first five are purely religious. Cosmic evolution, chemical evolution, stellar and planetary evolution, organic evolution, macro evolution, are all religion not science. We never have observed any of those in action. So to be a good witness for the Creator and stand firm in a debate, define first what you are debating as far as these evolution theories go? You will find that evolutionist give examples of # 6 only, micro evolution. Changes with the dog family. Problem is the debater usually implies micro-evolution is evidence for the other 5. It is not evidence.

The teachers are taught to stress the earth is billions of years old, make sure the kids believe this since the intention is that if you have enough time anything can happen. But if these haven’t happened in all the years man has been observing creation why should anyone believe it is going to happen tomorrow.

Don’t you think in science class, we should be teaching science. The results, of clear observations. Things we can observe and test and study and demonstrate. Things like the 1st law of thermodynamics.

The scientific law, not theory, tells us “Matter cannot be created or destroyed.” If matter cannot be created or destroyed then how did the world get here? “Were here, you know” So that leaves on 2 choices. 1) Somebody made the world or 2) The world made itself. You can believe the Bible, which says God made the world with his hands, or can believe the humanists who say the world created itself.

Humanists regard the universe as “self-existing and not created.” This quote is from the Humanist Manifesto Tenet#1. Well, if the world made itself how could this happen? The devil thought for along time and finally he came up with the big bang theory. It is rather obsurd what is published today and being taught to our kids.

“Earth has changed.” In addition to (the planets) physical changes, life too, has evolved on earth.” The word evolved is a very tricky word. There are 6 meanings to the word and only one meaning is scientific. When someone speaks to you regarding evolution ask them what they mean? For some speak of cosmic evolution: The origin of time, space and matter. Also referred to as the Big Bang. Some believe it, I don’t. Then there is chemical evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen the big band was to produce hydrogen and some helium, but how did we get the other 105 elements? Did they evolve? Are we to believe uranium evolved from hydrogen?

The 3rd theory is stellar and planetary evolution: The origin of stars and planets. How did the star form? No one has even seen a star form. Scientists don’t even have a clue how a star could form. There are not even good theories on how a star could form. What happens all the time is vona and supernova, and that is when a star explodes. Man is constantly looking into the heavens and we see the stars exploding, not forming. Did you know that there are enough stars that every person on earth could claim 1 trillion stars for their own. Those are the ones we know about, thanks to the Hubble Telescope and fast computers. (psalm 147) tells us the “Lord determines the number of the stars and calls each by name. Great is our Lord and mighty in power; His understanding has no limit.” Wow he named them all, has anyone named 11 trillion?

Fourthly there is organic evolution: the origin of life. Life had to get started from non-living material. Even today, nobody has a clue how that could happen. Then are are told

about macro-evolution. That is where an animal changes to different kinds of animals. Nobody has ever seen a dog poduce anyting but dogs.

The Pretae Hall General Science book say “about 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into one very dense, very hot region that may have been smaller then a period on this page. For some unknown reason the region exploded. This explosion called the Big Bang goes on to say this is how the galaxies formed in the universe. By the way universe is form from 2 latin words uni-means single verse- means spoken sentence. Did you know we live in a single spoken sentence? “God said let there be.” But that is so different from the public school science book which says 18 to 20 billion years ago all the matter in the universe was concentrated into a dot on this page. What? That is one crowded dot. Do you see this planet squished into the tip of your pen? That isn’t the end of it. EarthScience text book say after many billions of years, all the matter and energy will once again be packed into a small area. This area may be no longer then the period at the end of this sentence. Then another big bang will occur. Can you believe they cut down a tree to print that? Where’s Al Gore when you need him.

Honestly if you believe that then what is the use of living anyway if were just going to explode. Those words are not from the God that loves you, but your enemy who hates you, who says if your are told lies over and over you will believe them.

This text book author was brilliant, he says, “Nothing really means nothing.” He said not only would mass and energy disappear, but also space and time. However, physicists theorize that from the state of nothingness the universe began. The universe began in a gigantic explosion. What? He is telling us that one day nothing exploded and here we are. Discover Magazine a few years ago wrote, “The universe burst into something from absolutely nothing, zero, nada. And as it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that came from absolutely nothing /nowhere. How is that possible? Ask Alan Guth. His theory of inflation helps explain everything! He went on to say in Scientific American, “We all came from a dot and a dot came from nothing, they call that science.

You want proof that you have no clue what you are talking about?

Well here it is,...

You say that if we had evolved from apes gorillas would no longer be here.

Well, if that was true then if Dogs evolved from Wolves then Wolves should no longer be here.

Clearly evolution doesn't work that way. Just because one line breaks off in other direction doesn't mean that the original line has to cease to be.

Besides, we didn't evolve from gorillas anyway.

We evolved from a primate ancester that was a common ancester to chimpanzees, Bonobos, and us.

Ok abra......now were getting somewhere......and yes this is ding ding ding correct. ok so then this explains us being here along with the gorillas and the lines going off......so again abra if it is a case of us coming from nothing how can that be....How can anything come from nothing.

This is actually an underhanded unscruplous ploy by Creationists.

The proof of evolution is in. It's been well accepted by the Scientific community as FACT.

Who is refusing to accept the proof?

Creationists!

They simple reject any and all evidence and claim that "no proof" has been offered.

What a crock of bull!

Where's their proof that the Bible is the word of God?

Clearly they can't even agree with each other on what the stupid book says!

Much less claim that it's a coherent owner's manual for human beings.

Creationists are serious manipulators who will do anything to gain a following no matter how unscrupulous they need to become.

They have virtually no morals at all.

Homo erectus (Latin: "upright man") is an extinct species of the genus Homo, believed to have been the first hominin to leave Africa.

Homo erectus has fairly derived morphological features and a larger cranial capacity than that of Homo habilis, although new finds from Dmanisi in the Republic of Georgia show distinctively small crania. The forehead (frontal bone) is less sloping and the teeth are smaller (quantification of these differences is difficult). Homo erectus had a brain size that expanded with time (850 in the earliest to 1100 cm³ in the latest Javan examples)[6] the latter which overlaps with modern humans. These early hominines stood about 1.79 m (5 ft 10+1⁄2 in), and were much stronger than modern humans.[7] The sexual dimorphism between males and females was slightly greater than seen in modern Homo sapiens with males being about 20-30% larger than females. The discovery of the skeleton KNM-WT 15000 (Turkana boy) made near Lake Turkana, Kenya by Richard Leakey and Kamoya Kimeu in 1984 was a breakthrough in interpreting the physiological status of H. erectus.



Kingdom: | Animalia
Phylum: | Chordata
Class: | Mammalia
Order: | Primates
Family: | Hominidae
Genus: | Homo
Species: | H. erectus

Feral we (nor any other species on the planet today) come from nothing. We broke off from chimp. If you are asking where the very first forms of life appeared. There are many theories but the most likely in my opinion is the seas.