We were created to be slave labour and a food source for the Draco.

The Bible absolutely was the fabricated work of men. There can be no doubt about that whatsoever.

It has not only been wrong about nature, but it even flies in the face of it's own postulates and claims.

There is nothing all-wise about a God who ends up having to have himself nailed to a pole to save his pathetically inferior creation.

That's far from a perfect deity.

If a deity did indeed exist that has the personality traits of the biblical God it would be an extremely inept god to be sure.

The Bible is clearly a fabrication of men. No all-wise, all-perfect God could be as lame as the Bible portrays God to be.

The other lie is that the science of evolution is 'just a theory' or that it has no substantial credibility. That's even a bigger lie.

Evolution has been confirmed about as well as anything we know. There is no way that it can be wrong in the face of the actually tangeble evidence for it. It's far more than just a 'theory'. It's indeed a proven fact based on a myriad of evidence.

We know now that we are relatives of the Chimpanzees and Bonobo monkeys (or apes if you prefer).

There's no question about it.

To even consider the idea of 'creationism vesus evolution' is to demonstrate a great ignorance of the work that scientists have done.

And all for what?

So so people can believe that they are guilty for having to have God get himself nailed to a pole?

Where's there anything positive in that?

Why would anyone even want to believe in such a dismal picture of creation?

The Biblical picture of man is that we are pathetic rebellious failures. Who have CHOSEN to rebell.

But that's not even possible for a non-believer! How can a non-believer CHOOSE to rebell against something they don't even believe in?

That very notion suggests that the Biblical God is utterly stupid!

The Biblical God (by its own definition) would need to be condemning and rejecting thousands if not millions of decent people just because they don't believe in it.

The non-believers can't reject a God they don't even believe in. Only the God can reject them!

The Biblical God is a pictuer of a God who is so full of itself it truly doesn't care about anyone.

There is no love in that picture at all. It's a picture of a very cold-blooded God who IMHO would be better described as a demon.

You don't created people, then run off and play hide & seek and make them play guessing games, all the while claiming to be a 'Fatherly Figure'.

What kind of a father would behave so FOOLISHLY?

There is nothing 'Fatherly' about the biblical picture of God. That's just yet another one of it's myriad of lies.

God created evolution. It was right after the seventh day adventure. Well rested and all...

Maybe evolution made god possible?

BibleScience.org
God created. The Bible says so. Science confirms it.
Top Evidences for Creation
(and Against Evolution)

Information
Formation of Life
Design of Living Things
Irreducible Complexity
Second Law of Thermodynamics
Existence of the Universe
Fine-tuning of Earth for Life
Fine-tuning of Physics
Abrupt Appearance in the Fossil Record
Human Consciousness
Human Language
Sexual Reproduction
The Bible's Witness

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
Genesis 1:1

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
Genesis 1:27

“The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself in a material medium, and the information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus precluded.”
Gitt, Werner

"I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science."
Lovtrup, Soren



1. Information The instructions for how to build, operate, and repair living cells represent a vast amount of information (estimated at 12 billion bits). Information is a mental, non-material concept. It can never arise from a natural process and is always the result of an intelligence. Just as a newspaper story transcends the ink on the paper, life’s DNA itself (like the ink) is not the information, it is simply a physical representation or housing of the information (the story). Modifying the DNA via mutation can never produce new genetic information to drive upward evolution, just as spilling coffee on the newspaper, thereby modifying the distribution of the ink, will never improve the story.
Key references: Genetic Entropy (Sanford), In the Beginning was Information (Gitt).

2. Formation of Life Dead chemicals cannot become alive on their own. The cell is a miniature factory with many active processes, not a simple blob of “protoplasm” as believed in Darwin’s day. Lightening striking a mud puddle or some “warm little pond” will never produce life. This is another view of the core issue of information as the simplest living cell requires a vast amount of information to be present. The “Law of Biogenesis” states that life comes only from prior life. Spontaneous generation has long been shown to be impossible (by Louis Pasteur in 1859). Numerous efforts to bring life from non-life (including the famous Miller-Urey experiment) have not succeeded. The probability of life forming from non-life has been likened to the probability of a tornado going through a junkyard and spontaneously assembling a working 747 airplane. The idea that life on earth may have been seeded from outer space just moves the problem elsewhere.
Key reference: Why Abiogenesis is Impossible, Jerry Bergman, CRS Quarterly, Volume 36, March 2000

3. Design of Living Things Design is apparent in the living world. Even Richard Dawkins in his anti-creation book The Blind Watchmaker admits “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose.” The amazing defense mechanism of the Bombardier Beetle is a classic example of design in nature, seemingly impossible to explain as the result of accumulating small beneficial changes over time, because if the mechanism doesn’t work perfectly, “boom” – no more beetle! This is also another view of the core issue of information, as the design of living things is the result of processing the information in the DNA (following the blueprint) to produce a working organism.
Key reference: The three-part video series Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution describes many more examples like that of the Bombardier Beetle

4. Irreducible Complexity The idea that “nothing works until everything works.” The classic example is a mousetrap, which is irreducibly complex in that if one of its several pieces is missing or not in the right place, it will not function as a mousetrap and no mice will be caught. The systems, features, and processes of life are irreducibly complex. What good is a circulatory system without a heart? An eye without a brain to interpret the signals? What good is a half-formed wing? Doesn’t matching male and female reproductive machinery need to exist at the same time, fully-functioning if any reproduction is to take place? Remember, natural selection has no foresight, and works to eliminate anything not providing an immediate benefit.
Key reference: Darwin’s Black Box (Behe)

5. Second Law of Thermodynamics The Second Law of Thermodynamics refers to the universal tendency for things, on their own, to “mix” with their surrounding environment over time, becoming less ordered and eventually reaching a steady-state. A glass of hot water becomes room temperature, buildings decay into rubble, and the stars will eventually burn out leading to the “heat death” of the universe. However, the evolutionary scenario proposes that over time things, on their own, became more ordered and structured. Somehow the energy of a “Big Bang” structured itself into stars, galaxies, planets, and living things, contrary to the Second Law. It is sometimes said that the energy of the Sun was enough to overcome this tendency and allow for the formation of life on earth. However, application of energy alone is not enough to overcome this tendency; the energy must be channeled by a machine. A human must repair a building to keep it from decaying. Likewise, it is the machinery of photosynthesis which harnesses the energy of the Sun, allowing life to exist, and photosynthesis is itself a complex chemical process. The maturing of an acorn into a tree, or a zygote (the first cell resulting from fertilization) into a mature human being does not violate the Second Law as these processes are guided by the information already present in the acorn or zygote.
Key reference: The Second Law of Thermodynamics (answersingenesis.org)

6. Existence of the Universe By definition, something must be eternal (as we have “something” today and something cannot come from “nothing”, so there was never a time when there was “nothing”). Either the universe itself is eternal, or something/someone outside of and greater than the universe is eternal. We know that the universe is not eternal, it had a beginning (as evidenced by its expansion). Therefore, God (the something/someone outside of the universe) must exist and must have created the universe. Einstein showed that space and time are related. If there is no space there is no time. Before the universe was created there was no space and therefore no concept of time. This is hard for us to understand as we are space-time creatures, but it allows for God to be an eternal being, completely consistent with scientific laws. The question “who created God” is therefore an improper/invalid question, as it is a time-based question (concerning the point in time at which God came into existence) but God exists outside of time as the un-caused first cause.

7. Fine-tuning of Earth for Life Dozens of parameters are “just right” for life to exist on this planet. For example, if the Earth were just a little closer to the Sun it would be too hot and the ocean’s water would boil away, much further and it would be covered continually in ice. Earth’s circular orbit (to maintain a roughly constant temperature year-round), its rotation speed (to provide days and nights not too long or short), its tilt (to provide seasons), and the presence of the moon (to provide tides to cleanse the oceans) are just some of many other examples.

The presence of large amounts of water, with its amazing special properties, is also required. Water is a rare compound in that it is lighter in a solid state than in a liquid state. This allows ponds to freeze with the ice on the surface allowing the life beneath to survive. Otherwise bodies of water would freeze from the bottom up and become solid ice. Water is also the most universal “solvent” known, allowing for dissolving/mixing with the many different chemicals of life. In fact, our bodies are 75-85% comprised of water.
Key reference: The Privileged Planet (Gonzalez/Richards)

8. Fine-tuning of Physics The fine-tuning of the physical constants that control the physics of the universe - the settings of the basic forces (strong nuclear force constant, weak nuclear force constant, gravitational force constant, and electromagnetic force constant) are on a knife’s edge. A minor change in these or any of dozens of other universal parameters would make life impossible.
The “multiverse” idea that there may be many universes and ours “just happened” to have these proper values is outside of science and could never be proven. Even then we would have to ask “what was the cause of all these universes?”

Key reference: Hugh Ross lists about 100 parameters on the Reasons To Believe web site. See also Design and the Anthropic Principle

9. Abrupt Appearance in the Fossil Record The oldest fossils for any creature are already fully-formed and don’t change much over time (“stasis”). The “Cambrian Explosion” in the “primordial strata” documents the geologically rapid appearance of most major groups of complex animals. There is no evidence of evolution from simpler forms. Birds are said to have evolved from reptiles but no fossil has ever been found having a “half-scale/half-wing”. A reptile breathes using an “in and out” lung (like humans have), but a bird has a “flow-through” lung suitable for moving through the air. Can you even imagine how such a transition of the lung could have taken place? Abrupt appearance and stasis are consistent with the biblical concept of creation “according to its kind”, and a world-wide flood that scoured the earth down to its basement rocks, depositing the “geologic column” and giving the appearance of a “Cambrian Explosion”. Smarter, more mobile creatures would escape the flood waters longer, becoming buried in higher-level strata, leading to a burial order progressing from “simpler” forms to more complex/higher-level forms, which people now wrongly interpret as an evolutionary progression.
Key reference: Fossils Q&A (answersingenesis.org)

10. Human Consciousness A person is a unity of body + mind/soul, the mind/soul being the immaterial part of you that is the real inner you. Chemicals alone cannot explain self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, emotions of love and hate, sensations of pleasure and pain, possessing and remembering experiences, and free will. Reason itself cannot be relied upon if it is based only on blind neurological events.
Key reference: The Origin of the Brain and Mind, Brad Harrub and Bert Thompson, CRS Quarterly, Volume 41, June 2004

11. Human Language Language is one of the main things that separates man from the animals. No animal is capable of achieving anything like human speech, and all attempts to teach chimpanzees to talk have failed. Evolutionists have no explanation for the origin of human language. However, the Bible does. It says that the first man, Adam, was created able to speak. The Bible also explains why we have different human languages, as God had to "confuse" the common language being used in Babel after the flood, in order to force people to spread out around the world as He wanted. This was only a "surface" confusion though, as all languages express the same underlying basic ideas and concepts, enabling other languages to be learned and understood.
Key reference: The Mystery of Human Language (Morris, icr.org)

12. Sexual Reproduction Many creatures reproduce asexually. Why would animals abandon simpler asexual reproduction in favor of more costly and inefficient sexual reproduction? Sexual reproduction is a very complex process that is only useful if fully in place. For sexual reproduction to have evolved complimentary male and female sex organs, sperm and eggs, and all the associated machinery in tandem defies the imagination.

13. The Bible's Witness The Bible is true. The history of the Bible is true. The words of the Bible concerning our origins were given to men to write down, by God, who was the only living being present. We were not there! God said He created the universe. God said He created all living things. We know that life is much more than chemicals. God put His life into Adam and that life has been transferred from generation to generation all the way down to us!
Key reference: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict (McDowell)

When the hell was this written? I just randomly picked out a point that was erronious.

11. Human Language Language is one of the main things that separates man from the animals. No animal is capable of achieving anything like human speech, and all attempts to teach chimpanzees to talk have failed. Evolutionists have no explanation for the origin of human language. However, the Bible does. It says that the first man, Adam, was created able to speak. The Bible also explains why we have different human languages, as God had to "confuse" the common language being used in Babel after the flood, in order to force people to spread out around the world as He wanted. This was only a "surface" confusion though, as all languages express the same underlying basic ideas and concepts, enabling other languages to be learned and understood.
Key reference: The Mystery of Human Language (Morris, icr.org)

Wrong.


The FOXP2 protein sequence is highly conserved. Similar FOXP2 proteins can be found in songbirds, fish, and reptiles such as alligators Aside from a polyglutamine tract, human FOXP2 differs from chimp FOXP2 by only two amino acids, mouse FOXP2 by only 3 amino acids, and zebra finch FOXP2 by only 7 amino acids. Some researchers have speculated that the two amino acid differences between chimps and humans led to the evolution of language in humans. Others, however, have been unable to find a clear association between species with learned vocalizations and similar mutations in FOXP2. Both human mutations occur in an exon with no known function. It is also likely, based on general observations of development and songbird results, that any difference between humans and non-humans would be due to regulatory sequence divergence (affecting where and when FOXP2 is expressed) rather than the two amino acid differences mentioned above.

13. The Bible's Witness The Bible is true. The history of the Bible is true. The words of the Bible concerning our origins were given to men to write down, by God, who was the only living being present. We were not there! God said He created the universe. God said He created all living things. We know that life is much more than chemicals. God put His life into Adam and that life has been transferred from generation to generation all the way down to us!
Key reference: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict (McDowell)


Is this your argument? The bible is true dammit because we say so! Now stop asking so many questions!

12. Sexual Reproduction Many creatures reproduce asexually. Why would animals abandon simpler asexual reproduction in favor of more costly and inefficient sexual reproduction? Sexual reproduction is a very complex process that is only useful if fully in place. For sexual reproduction to have evolved complimentary male and female sex organs, sperm and eggs, and all the associated machinery in tandem defies the imagination.


No not really. Just because crazy theologians who are not qualified to offer an educated opinion on the matter of sexual evolution and reproduction, does not automatically mean that it "defies the imagination."

Asexual reproduction is still used by some organisms but in general failed to pass the test of natural selection. Sexual reproduction is the favored way of reproducing for many organisms. In sexual reproduction, new combinations of genes can be assembled on the same chromosomes through recombination. Independent assortment during meiosis, which changes combinations of chromosomes, generates endless genetic diversity. This variation enables a species to overcome novel environmental changes by fast adaptive change.

In asexual reproduction, however, natural selection has to wait for some sort of mutation or change due to drift to take place, to act on. Sexual reproduction can also put two beneficial mutations together (although there is always a possibility to break a favorable combination too), or eliminate a deleterious one. The phenomenon that a favorable combination of genes may be broken during meiosis is called the 'cost of recombination'.

Overall, groups reproducing sexually can evolve more quickly than those do not, because the combination of beneficial mutations will occur more quickly and deleterious mutations will accumulate more slowly. This is why in eukaryotic multicellular life forms sexual reproduction is a rule. Even in bacteria, which reproduce asexually, there are mechanisms allowing gene transfers between organisms.

It is believed that sexual reproduction evolved as early as 2.5 to 3.5 billion years ago. Sexual reproduction is beneficial particularly when environment changes (including changes in the number and genetic constitution of parasites), and when offspring are dispersed widely to end up in different places from their parents. This is why aphids produce winged offspring when reproduced sexually, and wingless ones when reproduced asexually.

Similarly, common grass grows asexually (locally) but produces seeds by sexual reproduction to travel away, so that in the new environments, there will be diversity for best adaptation. A host genotype successful against parasites may not be so in the next generation as the rate of evolution in parasites is so fast. The only way in which an animal makes sure that its descendants will be able to deal with different parasites is to reproduce sexually. This is currently the most widely favored theory on the evolution of sex. An alternative theory suggests that it may have evolved as an adaptation for competition with other species.

120 thousand years ago - Homo Sapien appears

The growth of the cerebral cortex accelerated further in man´s immediate ancestors, and reached explosive proportions in the last million years of human history, culminating in the appearance of Homo Sapiens.

The primitive region in the brain, that held the circuits for the instinctive behavior of the reptile and the old mammal, was now completely enveloped by and buried within the human cerebral cortex.

Yet this ancient command post, relic of our distant past, is still active within us; it still vies with the cerebral cortex for control of the body, pitting the inherited programs of the old brain against the flexible responses of the new one.

Experiments suggest that parental feelings, source of some of the finest human emotion, still spring from these primitive, programmed areas of the brain that go back to the time of the old mammal, more than 100 million years ago.

One part of the old brain, called the hypothalamus, is only the size of a walnut in the human brain, and yet a minute electrical stimulus applied to this region in the brain can create the emotional states of anger, anxiety or acute fear. The stimulation of nearby regions, only a few tenths of an inch away, produces sexual desire, or a craving for food or water.

The hypothalamus also appears to contain centers for aggression, killing, and fight-or-flight responses.

Experiments indicate that states of anger and aggression are created by electrical signals originating in the hypothalamus. The hypothalamus behaves as though it contains a gate that can open to let out a display of anger or bad temper.

Normally, this gate is kept closed, but now and then the animal´s senses tell its brain that its rights are endangered; a mate is lured away, food is stolen, or threat signals are received; and then the package of brain survival programs called the "emotions" comes into play, and an electrical signal to open the gate comes from some ancient center of instinct deep within the brain.

It is as if two mentalities resided in the same body. One mentality is ruled by emotional states that have evolved as a part of age-old programs for survival. The other mentality is ruled by reason, and resides in the cerebral cortex.

In man, the cerebral cortex, or new brain, is usually master over the old brain. But the reptile and the old mammal still lie within us.


These properties of the human brain lead to a prediction regarding the life that will follow man. As nature built the new brain on top of the old in our ancestors, so too, in the next stage of evolution after man, we can expect that a still newer and greater brain will join the "old" cerebral cortex, to work in concert with the cerebral cortex in directing the behavior of a form of life as superior to man as he is to the ancient forest mammal.

Actually this is a gross misrepresentation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

There is no violation of this Second law of Thermodynamics in the universe as we know it. And that specifically includes the evolution of complex beings.

The reason being due to both gravity, and the expansion of the unvierse. These are the forces that drive evolution.

So the evolution of complex structures is perfectly in-line with the physics of Thermodynamics.

****

One thing that people don't seem to realize is that if the universe has a creator, that creator also created the laws of physics.

There is absolutely no reason for an all-intelligent supereme being to have to baby-sit the universe and guide it every step of the way.

In fact, any supreme being that did that would indeed be quite inept.

Even men design processes to be automatic. Why do people want to insist that God isn't smart enough to do that?

If there is a God, it is the entity that created the law of entropy.

Man didn't create the laws of physics. He simply observes them and reports on how the universe behaves.

The Second law of Thermodynamics, and evolution are both true, whether a supreme being exists or not.

Finally, to scream that an apparently intelligent universe could only have been created by an intelligent creator is utterly stupid.



Well duh?

If this is true, then God himself could not arise unless he was the result of a previous intelligence.

This is circular stupidity that wouldn't pass a kindergarten exam.

These kinds of arguments sound good to uneducated laymen, but they hold absolutely no merit at all for educated men and women.

Trying to prove that there must be a God because intelligence and only arise from intelligence is the same as claiming that there must be a God because there must be a God.

In other words, it's the empty circular argument of a fool.

Moreover, even if such an argument could be made, it still wouldn't point to any paritcular manmade mythologies. Especially not the Biblical myth. That myth is anything but intelligent! If we're looking for an intelligent God we don't want want that asks people to throw stones at each other and murder non-believers.

That's not intelligence at all, that's just the act of a heartless egotistical pig. We have men in our prisons who have higher morals than that!

Actually all the arguments that you give in this thread point toward Pantheism, rather than a biblical-type of unintelligent facist dictator.

Pantheism says that we are the spiritual intelligence.

And that makes perfect sense.

After all, if spirits are going to created a universe as a playground doesn't it make sense that they'd want to play in it themselves?

Now there's an intelligent idea!

I see Krimsa already covered this one.

Evolution explains perfectly well why sexual reproduction is much better for survival than asexual reproduction.



The above quote is just a blatant example of pure ignorance on the part of the person who said this.

It doesn't defy the imagaination at all. On the contrary it is an extremely simple thing to understand to anyone who understands even the most rudimentary ideas of biology and evolution.

These people who claim that it defies their imagination are only exhibiting their own lack of cognizant abilities.

It's a very solid concept to those of us who understand the mere rudiments of these subjects. It's not difficult to understand at all.

Truly it's not. Unless the person is just dead set against wanting to understand it. Then there is much that can be done. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

So these people would rather believe in a God who asks people to throw stones?

And that's supposed to make sense?

Neolithic Feminism is the one true religion.

Hey I was just going to surmise that the first animals to have penises were the dinosaurs some 65 million years ago and the main reason for that might have just been to make land procreation feasible? Thats a total guess on my part though.

Interesting observation. Your may be right about that.

when we as humans EVOLVED from chimps and began to reason. the question arose. how did i get here? this question was first asked at a time when there was no other way to prove a higher power wrong. but since humans EVOLVE and science advances, we have proved the cavemen wrong. so to me, bowing to a higher power is saying you dont accept the fact that science begets intelligence. are you gonna tell me that god created cures for diseases that have plagued mankind for ages? if that was the case, then why is it that god didnt create **** sooner?

religion, so easy a caveman can do it.

Numbers 11

11:1 And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp.

(He had his hearing aid on.) So he burned the complainers alive. That'll teach them!



Quit your bi****in or I'll burn you up!

God said and BAM it was


so simple

But you dont seem to understand it very well....

No way on "GODS" green earth did I fall from flossom, fall into the ocean, became a tad pole, then a frog, then climbed out and became a money that turned into a gorilla then me...no way no how.....and again show me one creature if this is the case that evolved into a whole other creature ever.......you can't because it just is not so...



so creation 1


evolution 0


doesn't even take science

Thats not what the Neolithic cavewomen are saying