It seems that a person in a position of religious authority should have a little more common sense than that but look at Bill Clinton? The only difference there was Bill had consensual sex with a white house intern. Soliciting prostitutes repeatedly is a criminal offense. I would not presume to judge the man because thats what the Christians go around doing, condemning and "discerning". It just looks bad for everyone concerned I would imagine.

I'll make a condemnation and discernment on him, A person that puts themselves in a position such as his should make an extra effort to resist temptations and engage in actions that discredit his position as a spiritual leader. A Pastor should lead by example.

Do you think he should be stoned?

We are all an experiment created by the Draco

You love bringing up this whole stoning concept don't you? lol
Thats why I was taught to read the new testament first, and then go to the old. In a lot of respects it seems as though Jesus wasn't even fond of the old testament. One does contradict the other. In my own personal belief, I don't even concentrate on the old testament at all. I suppose there are a few things you can gain from it such as the "ten commandments" but all in all the whole basic christian belief system is centered on the new. Sorry to go off topic on the thread lol.

And to answer your other point. Yea I know a bit about the scopes trial. I think I wrote a paper on it once.

Why are you quoting Mirror Mirror? Was that by accident? I have been going back and forth between Old and New Testament. I tend to have complaints on each if you want to know the truth. For one thing, the NT starts off with a boring genealogy. This is quite a contradiction because later in Timothy 1, we are told to avoid endless genealogies and fables.

("Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies")

If we heeded this advice, we would ignore most of the bible.

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament and insists that its laws will be binding forever. So yeah, OT or NT, I've got an ax to grind with both the dad and the son.

Matthew 5

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

I shouldn't have put that way that he had a "problem" with it. He supposedly was well learned in the Old Testament.It is just that he changed everything after the fact. I kinda have a problem with that. That question always drives me insane, like why did he wait all those thousands of years? The only way people can except stuff like that is to just say " hey, I am merely a mortal being, so what do I know?" Thats the only way I can deal with it.

And yes that other quote was by accident.

Well thats your decision and you need to live with it. I have been reading this and taking it at face value. It is clearly a man made, agenda ridden, misogynistic, destructive bit of fiction. I cant just sit here and go along with it.You can do whatever you want. It was written by mortal beings and you are not some automaton. Read what it actually says and decide for yourself.

Do you not believe in a deeper inner meaning in texts? Like I said before, these are thousands of years old. I take what I can and believe what I can. I am myself skeptical of the biblical creation story, but can I just say I think a higher power created us. I don't have to take for fact who slept with who in the book of Genesis to believe that God created everything. My personal theory is there were several creations, and the bible just represents one of them.

What deeper meaning? I cant sit here and interpret the text in any other manner than what is in fact written on the page. Are you insisting that I rationalize it in some respect? No. The Christians are pretty good at manipulating content. I'll leave that to them.What I am attempting to do is actually see it for what it is. It can be difficult enough to extrapolate a clear understanding of what is being imparted.

The bible is probably a little more than 2000 years old. Thats it. Are you telling me you consider that old? Oh come on. What about the Sumerians who occupied Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq)? They existed around 2900 BC. In fact many stories from the bible (including Genesis) are almost direct rip offs of their Creation Myths recovered by archeologists and written on enormous stone tablets. Plagiarisms. Thats right. If you are interested I will show you this.

You are welcome to believe in some sort of grand creatrix if that satisfies you on a certain unconscious level. I personally find Evolution to be a highly credible and plausible working theory. I find that many Christians who push it away and reject it, have never even really looked at the basic concepts or even made an attempt to comprehend the components. In that case, Im not going to waste my time.

I think you can get a deeper meaning when you close your eyes when listening to music.

I think you can get a deeper meaning when reading words backwards.

I think you can get a deeper meaning by meditating.

I think you can get a deeper meaning by being sleep deprived, or hopped up on drugs which is what you are any ways, just different kinds when you take them vs your body produce them. (sometimes not different just more)

One time I took some cold medicine then meditated, yea that was a very deep experience

I think the human brain processes 60K commands a second, and only a few are conscious driven.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "inner"

I once did not sleep for close to 72 hours and when I looked at the floor, it would undulate like the back of a snake. Then I thought I could feel the floor moving under my feet. Its very important for the body to experience REM. I was climbing the walls.

Krimsa.... you are misunderstanding about Jesus fulfilling the law...

Google...

"what does it mean ,Jesus came not to destroy but to fulfill the law"....

I dont think I am MS. I am reading (and quoting) what it says taken from the bible itself. Im not using an outside source to help me interpret direct meaning. I know you Christians enjoy doing that and this is the reason I am going out of my way not to. Besides, its not limited to that one quote. It is not an isolated incident in the scripture. You got more than that to deal with girly. There is no text more barbaric than the Old Testament. Books like Deuteronomy and Leviticus and Exodus. Its off the charts.

This hopefully will offer a better understanding Krimsa, about Jesus fulfilling the law :



http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd26.htm



http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/law/fulfill.html

Matthew 13

13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Sounds like the Republican platform?

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 10

10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

Here is a discussion that may help also:

http://www.thechristiandefense.com/viewtopic.php?p=47543

MS if you cant speak for yourself or tell me what you actually believe than screw it. These are quotes taken directly from the bible that I am posting. If you want to utilize outside sources to "redefine" scripture that is your prerogative. Its also lazy. You should at the very least be able to tell me in your own verbiage how you personally interpret the scripture.