deb":

Of Course it was God in the Garden of Eden.......It states clearly God.....had it been the Son....it would of clearly stated so.

tribo:

then how do we deal with the statement in john of: " >--no man<-- has seen god at any time"? If this was "god the father" then how do you explain this?

Is their some other verse that states differently? if so where?

That is a very good Bible inconsistency.

Read the passages more closely they "heard" Genesis 3:8
Genesis 3:10 I heard you in the garden 3:13 and the Lord said to the woman.

So again no inconsistency just plain not understanding on people's parts....Kind of reminds me of when I taught Sunday School....

Seen God and hear God......Take Moses for example even though God was in the burning bush Moses could not look directly at it.

Now also lets take it a step further. For those who don't believe in God then their is no emotional tie to God, His Son, or anything else. Let's examine this.

Does God feel emotion?

Who displays what emotions?
ƒ
What circumstances lie behind each emotion in the passage?

What do they reveal about the characters who display them?
ƒ
What are the emotions then saying about the people

If God represented in the scripture, What do we learn about Him?

ƒWhat are the implications for:
Jesus’ opponents?
Repentant sinners?
Those wishing to live a life pleasing to God?

“In light of the teaching, what specific steps can we take, individually to be more like God?”
ƒ
How does each implication/responsibility make you feel? Why?

would likely include our acceptance of those who have disappointed us (and God) badly?

So Deb, are you saying that the Bible never suggested or said that God walked with Adam in the garden?

I was given that impression, although I don't know the verse.

JB

deb said:



Read the passages more closely they "heard" Genesis 3:8
Genesis 3:10 I heard you in the garden 3:13 and the Lord said to the woman.

So again no inconsistency just plain not understanding on people's parts....Kind of reminds me of when I taught Sunday School....


tribo replies:

well lets look a little closer as you say at the verses.


8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the afternoon; and both Adam and his wife hid themselves -->>>>>from the >>>face<<< of the Lord God<<<<<-- in the midst of the trees of the garden. 9 And the Lord God called Adam and said to him, Adam, where art thou? 10 And he said to him, I heard thy voice as >>>>>thou walkedst<<<<< in the garden, and I feared because I was naked and I hid myself.


"8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the afternoon"

to me that is just indicative to what god is about to say to adam in verse 9 - "9 And the Lord God called Adam and said to him, Adam, where art thou" but the inbetween clearly states - that they were hiding from >>>the face<<< of the lord!

any sugestions on how this in line with the verse in john 1-18?

I am saying read it for crying out loud.....it doesn't leave much for interpretation of other then what it says......

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"

10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."

11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"

12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.

18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.

19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

20 Adam [c] named his wife Eve, [d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Other than those verses, are there any other verses in the Bible that suggests that God actually walked in the garden with Adam?

I think the impression is that God had legs and a body and walked and talked to Adam in the garden even though it may not say that Adam "saw" God I think it is pretty clearly leaves the impression that God had some sort of body and walked in the garden.

JB

This verse answers a question I had earlier about the Tree of Life. It was obviously a tree in the garden and to have eternal life you had to eat of it, probably on a regular basis. Adam was banished from the garden so that he could no longer eat of the tree of life.

"He must not be allowed... to eat of the tree of life....so the Lord banish him from the Gargen of Eden ......"

This agrees with what the Urantia book said about the tree of Life that it was in the garden and you had to eat of it on a regular basis, not just one time.

It also implies that the main reason they were banished was so that they could no longer have access to the tree of life.

Therefore they would grow old and die.

JB

..."has become like one of us..." implies that there were more than one creator.

Also "Let us make god in our image" also implies there were more than one creator.

"Elohim" is a plural word, also implies that there were more than one.

This is not the Father, son and Holy Spirit, this is a group of individuals, a group of creators.

JB

God could of walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden....He could of walked along side Moses on the mountain....He chose not to. Does this take away any significance of God being there.....NO

And no God did not walk in that sense. Did that however mean that Jesus also a God didn't walk along side of mere humans....Yes he did. I think people are taking insignificant pieces of the Bible and trying to make their point. Does it matter in the whole scheme of life that God "walked" or that God was "just there" I would say the later. When God speaks to me do I physically see him.....No....Does it take anything away from him talking to me no. Now also JB go up to my previous post and answer all the questions for me that I laid out.

Because the ultimate answer to all I feel for all who don't have faith in God, Christ will never fully understand or comprehend his or Jesus' teachings. For example taking this bit of scripture and turning it into questioning God......makes me a lil perturbed. Not because you can't ask.....but in the way some ask.....which I know for me puts me on the defensive and makes me say, "Oh brother here we go again." and then to 99.9% not care for the answers that are given. The answers for me will always be biblical and this in itself is where all the nasty lies. Because none of you believe in the Bible being the Word of God.

beep beep beep... this is a message of the emergency broadcast system... this is only a test.


pppssttttt..... deb! you are neglecting me... I sent you a message!

Sure tribo that is simple enough.....Let's again break it down.

18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

No one has seen the "the Father God" except his only Begotten (Jesus) That through Jesus has made the Father God (known)

Now I will give you another example as I did JB......Father God could of made himself seen to Adam and Eve and to Moses on the mountain. He chose not too...And when Moses was on the mountain and saw God in the burning bush....He could not look at him directly because he was God and Moses felt unworthy and there turned away and spoke to God. Is God if he chose to walk or show himself in human form. NO for he is God. And just because he doesn't show himself to us like that....does it take anything away from God....NO

John 1:18 Some manuscripts but the only (or only begotten) Son

Well you are right in the sense that I don't take the Bible as the word of God, but that does not mean I do not have faith in God Itself.

I do respect the Bible for the information and the message, and I reserve the right to look at it from that point of view.

I think I have a right to read the Bible from that point of view and evaluate its meaning from that point of view.

That is what I do. I keep getting the impression that there were more than one creator. Perhaps many "gods" or entities were involved with the project of Adam and Eve. That is what I keep seeing.

JB

Absolutely - being done for the readers benefit. The bible is not an account "for" God - but of God. It also - is not a diary. There is obvious literary liscence being evoked here, which is why you have chapters that seem out of order, and lists stuck in the middle of accounts. What is important in the overall theme of Genesis - is the message, not the time-line. It is why we don't have extensive lists on what happened to the tribe of Cain - where his wife came from, where the decendants of A&E migrated to, or even how many of them there were. Had the bible provided these facts, even the Widner would not be able to hold all the volumes it would contain.
God was not about census and geniologies - this is mans idea. If there are geniologies in the bible - they are there to serve a purpose beyond just making a list.

No - the bible is not inconsistant here - Deb is.

She is examining the text of Genesis without extending her exegesis beyond to what else the text says. Her focus is on the theme and message that is to be discerned from the passages of Genesis - but since the word of God is spoken through Jesus, and no man has seen the father, it cannot be God the father walking in the garden calling out to Adam & Eve - ESPECIALLY after they had sinned, they would not have survived the encounter.

deb, im not questioning wheter people saw jesus or not, i'm questioning whether it was god the father who walked in the garden - your reply is that it was but only his voice they didn't actuall see god. and then you reply:

Now I will give you another example as I did JB......Father God could of made himself seen to Adam and Eve and to Moses on the mountain. He chose not too...And when Moses was on the mountain and saw God in the burning bush....He could not look at him directly because he was God and Moses felt unworthy and there turned away and spoke to God. Is God if he chose to walk or show himself in human form. NO for he is God. And just because he doesn't show himself to us like that....does it take anything away from God....NO

John 1:18 Some manuscripts but the only (or only begotten) Son

But what i read deb is this.

" 8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the afternoon; and both Adam and his wife hid themselves from the face of the Lord God in the midst of the trees of the garden. 10 And he said to him, I heard thy voice as thou walkedst in the garden, and I feared because I was naked and I hid myself.

again i'll highlight the facts:


"from the >>face<< of the >>Lord God<<"

"I heard thy voice as >thou< [you] >>walkedst<< in the garden,"

now as i said it could have been written like this:

leaving the middle out and and bringing together the indicatives.

tribosis

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the afternoon 9 And the Lord God called Adam and said to him, Adam, where art thou?

thats a full statement

the center - and both Adam and his wife hid themselves from the face of the Lord God in the midst of the trees of the garden. is no more than interuptive speech as to what is taking place between 8&9 no more no less.

so if they heard his voice and seen his "face" and saw him "walking" then what does that indicate rather than his whole bieng was present there? >faces< dont walk, voices don't either, and they plainly state - I heard thy voice as >>thou<< walkedst in the garden. to me that means >thou< [you] were walking in the garden and i heard your "voice" not that it was gods voice was present without the rest of him - agian how do you explain >face< thnx

Jeanniebean



The story depicts the first Human experience on Earth.

What if we were to (just for a moment) view the story from the perspective that we are ALL creators of the experience of falling from grace?

...Simply by virtue of being Human.

thnx eljay thats where i was going with my point to deb, for god supposedly cannot be in the presence of sin - but this opens up another whole can of worms, if god could not be in the presence of sin - then how could he be present even as a epiphany of yet to be man jesus?

And that sweet JB is your choice. But you contradicting your self if your saying that you have faith in "God" and then claims there are more then one god. Also at least for me I can never imagine God letting this "book" Bible be here for as long as it has and not be inspired of him......Just don't see it.

Now also look at this JB

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

OF GOD Now look at the last few scriptures of Revelation


Revelation 22:18-22

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.


I think this speaks volumes......and for me proves the Bible is of God. If it was not and man just made it up the first line in the Bible.....God created the heavens and the earth...........If that wasn't spoken from God to the writer how did they know who created it....they were not their yet......hmmmmmmmm something to ponder

I was using it as an example....because I also gave them the Moses example....The Glory of God would kill any man who looked upon him.......but as in the burning bush it was God and even when God places himself their Moses can not look upon him entirely....But once again I think the point was lost, In the fact that had God wanted it....it could of been....but God did not. And the people are taking to much credence to the "God walking" it's insignificant.......to the fact that GOD WAS THERE.