I am thinking scientific proof. It is more of disproving than proving for theories. There is no evidence that God does not exist, only a lack of evidence that he does.

The absence of proof is not the proof of absence.

That is assuming that God bends to our wills. If God created us, why would he do what we wanted? I personally am more for the clockmaker theory.

Also, I have never heard anyone say that God has to answer your prayers. It is just like a kid asking their parents for something. You might get it, you might not, but you won't if you never ask.

Well if you are comfortable with that then fine. I thought you might have been stepping up to the plate here but I can respect that opinion. Im sure thousands share it. Many also understand that a Creation Mythology has been a component of ALL discovered people's through out the world. Its typical within homo sapien to seek to explain everything around them. How did this all get here? How do women give birth? How does a bolt of lightning ignite a fire on the ground? How does fire cook things? The list goes on.

So Genesis is nothing more than a Creation Myth that holds no more weight than that of the American Indians or the Eskimos or the Mauri....or the...

I take my own look on things. According to the laws of physics, matter can neither be created or destroyed. So how did matter and energy get here? They were both required for the "big bang" to take place.

Like I said, I am more of a clockmaker theory kind of guy. God created the universe and the laws that govern it and it worked itself out. Thus he created matter/energy and the laws of physics/nature did everything else.

Also, since there is no evidence creationism isn't correct, it is not a mythology.

But you never answered my question. How can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Genesis and the mythological Christian interpretation of god is a reality? If you simply want to say well, I believe in it and that's enough, fine, so be it. You are in a boat with probably quite a few others who share you view. Also, by comparison, how would the Creation Mythologies of any of these other people's through out the world be proven to be any less valid than that of a Christian godhead? Where does the difference lie exactly? You are also insisting that the components that were involved in creating what has now been labeled by science as The Big Bang required some kind of grand Creatrix.

"The Big Bang is the cosmological model of the universe that is best supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation. The essential idea is that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past and continues to expand to this day."

Explain to me how a Creatrix needed to be involved with this exactly.

Mythological Definition

1. Of, relating to, or recorded in myths or mythology.
2. Fabulous; imaginary.

Christian Creationism is neither "of relating to or recorded in myths/mythology or imaginary.

If Creationism was provable it would be fact, same goes for the big bang. Neither of them are proven.

You never answered my question either. Where did the energy/matter come from to create the universe? Something had to always exist or something had to come from nothing. What other options are there? Again, creationism and the big bang can both exist in terms of the clockmaker theory which is what I personally believe.

Well Creationism is certainly unvalidated to this day. Can you prove that Zeus does not exist high above Mt. Olympus? Can you discredit the ancient Sumerian creation myth that there was originally a primeval sea (abzu) within which the earth (ki) and sky were formed. Between heaven and earth was a vault with atmosphere. Each of these regions corresponding with one of four gods. Can you disprove the concept of a "Great Spirit and a Mother Earth" held amongst some American Indian tribes?

Can you prove that Jesus was the son of god born of a virgin and that something called Yahweh first go around created man and woman at the same time to be equal and on the second try took a piece of the skeletal system from the male counterpart to make a female to be his helpmate? Can you prove that one?

I pose my question once again. You seem to be glossing over it totally. How is the Christian mythology any more credible or believable than any of these others I have mentioned? Is it simply because you choose to believe in it? Thats a bit arrogant isn't it?

You also have yet to answer how the components of the big bang required a Creatrix. Can you at least take a stab at either here or what?

Yes!

If one begins to take that approach with all that he/she takes in... how much more can be seen?

If we first see how another is right, rather than wrong... we garner truth. Habitual disproving (in order to prove oneself right) results in significant fragments of truth eluding us, essentially thickening the barrier to possibility.

My smileys are out of commission at this junction but hahahhaha.

Actually, I did state it. In the big bang, a large amount of mass and energy was concentrated into a very small space, which then exploded outward. There is actually evidence that the universe is still expanding from this initial event. However, according to physics, matter and energy can not be created or destroyed. If that is the case, then where did the energy and matter come from that was present during the big bang? That is why I say something had to always exist or come from nothingness. What couldn't it come from God?

As far as mythology lets talk about Zeus. They say he threw lightning that was created by Hephaestus. Well we know that isn't true because science has proven where lightning comes from and why it is here.

As far as my absence of proof thing goes and since you brought up the Sumerians. Did you know that they also wrote about the other planets in our solar system? Including ones that can't be seen w/o telescopes? Some may have claimed these as myths.. that is until the 1900s when they actually discovered them.

And I asked you, what evidence do you have to prove that god in fact had a hand in the Big Bang? The earliest phases of the Big Bang are subject to much speculation. In the most common models, the universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−35 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially. After inflation stopped, the universe consisted of a quark-gluon plasma, as well as all other elementary particles.Temperatures were so high that the random motions of particles were at relativistic speeds, and particle-antiparticle pairs of all kinds were being continuously created and destroyed in collisions. At some point an unknown reaction called baryogenesis violated the conservation of baryon number, leading to a very small excess of quarks and leptons over antiquarks and anti-leptons—of the order of 1 part in 30 million. This resulted in the predominance of matter over antimatter in the present universe.

Also, you still have not validated the Christian mythology? How can I believe that your concept of god is the one and only? What makes him superior in some way to any other god or goddess or Creation Mythology? Explain why your god would be more likely to have created the universe? Can you explain how his intellect would have been necessary at all?

It is also commonly accepted that the first electric light was made in 1800 by Humphry Davy, an English scientist. He experimented with electricity and invented an electric battery. When he connected wires to his battery and a piece of carbon, the carbon glowed, producing light. This is called an electric arc. So we definitely know that god, as Chaz understands him to be, did not create the first electric light. We also still can not validate Creationism. So you have yet to answer the question posed:

What makes the Christian Mythology any more real or valid or credible than ANY other people's theory to explain the creation of the Earth and sky and humans and how we came into existence? You can dance around it all you want. Thats actually a question that you could answer if you tried.

Besides, you have yet to show us your credible proof of the existence of god as Chaz understands him to be and why he should be considered superior to all others. Im waiting with baited breath for that one...

You really are not getting my point. I never said it was true, I only said I believed it. I am keeping an open mind, while you are just trying to debunk something just because there is no proof.

I am not trying to convince anyone that my belief is right, just trying to say that it is just as good as anything else.

Your explanation of the big bang still has energy and mass in it. Where did they come from? The point is that no one knows.

Lack of validation does not make something a myth. There use to be no proof of giant squids and people thought they were a myth... until we discovered them.

I also never said it was more valid. I told you I think the Big Bang is a good theory even though it still leaves questions. It also would not disprove a divine being.

"Taken at face value, I would need to say no, there is no credible evidence to support the existence of the Christian mythological "god". This statement is not intended to insult anyone or hurt their feelings. Its just how I feel personally. Its a man made conceptualization and premise." Krimsa

This is my origional quote Chaz. Notice the word PERSONALLY. Meaning, my own person. How I feel. How I understand the concept of a god. All I did was answer your questions. I asked you a few in return and you basically just blew it off. I dont know what you want here.

And all I originally said was there is no credible evidence saying he doesn't exist and you did the same thing.

Lol,
Ok, ill ask a parallel question to help illuminate the nature of your question.

The number line was it always there? Mathematics was it always there? Did we invent math or discover it? When Pythagoras learned about right triangles did he create it? That seems absurd to think about of course right triangles and the relationships therein where discovered not created. As long as there was a reality, there was this math . . . waiting to be discovered.

Asking what created energy is like asking if we invented mathematics . . . . . Reality = NRG

If god came before energy, before matter, before anything then what was god composed of that could manipulate this creation stuff?Or was he nothing making something from nothing . . . . . omg circular logic makes religion go round.

And if time began with the creation of the universe then there is no relevance to "before or after" . . . :causation.

So this initiator created all NRG all matter from nothing outside of time, thus there was no thought of hey im gunna create this . . . . becuase to think is to have time lapse from one thought to the next, to create is cause then effect.

Then this god had to have created this universe with no thought in mind as to why, becuase causation could not exist without time, and this is some kind of thing to think of in terms of a god? So if there was a being that created everything then did it have a choice? If it did not have choice then is it really a being? With free will?

So let me get this straight you have studied enough to appreciate physics, have an understanding of the big bang, believe that god would create all this but not hang around to make a difference? (miracles) . . . well then what is this god to you? What is this god good for in the lives of those who pray to him, are all the people who say god speaks to them delusional?

To me it sounds like a dead beat dad that knocks up your mom (The universe), then takes off to see the rest of his family (multiverse) . . . sounds like human myth to me . . . and not something I would spend time worshiping unless you consider the search for the fundamentals of nature worship of this first initiator.

If anything the more educated people I meet that have learned about reality through science yet still believe in god . . the less their god sounds like god the more it sounds like function . . . . . less like a being more like a force.

Sorry Chaz this was directed at you but I forgot to grab your quote.


Right. So what is the problem exactly? Do you want me to say Im wrong and you are right. I will of course but you need to show me how. Just because we have yet to discover something, doesn't automatically make it false or untrue or non-existent. However, there is such a thing as credible evidence. It is highly praised in our culture. We like to be able to see things and touch them. This is why the Theory of Evolution enjoys its place in museums through out the world. People like looking at it and touching it.

My point was that if you choose to have faith in your Christian god, thats wonderful, Im happy for you, but how can you justify the non accreditation of every other Creation Myth found the world over?

What are words for...

"is there logical proof of god?"

As opposed to illogical proof of god's existence?

Something like the Jesus outline in the tortilla down in Mexico?

No I dont want you to say I am right. I just would like you to quit implying that because there is a lack of evidence that God exists that it means he doesnt. This doesn't mean you have to believe he does. I could care less that you do, but trying to claim that there is proof he doesn't is a little too much for me.

That is not the same. Math is abstract, a concept like time. Energy is physical. you can't "feel" math, you can "feel" energy.