i aggree with u KB, if we keep up with this bullshit, then it won't be
long before we are in the same boat as those other countries. were our
government becomes the terrorists them selves. and we the people will be
calling for help from some other country that will only laugh at us and
turn their backs on us saying u get what u deserve. it won't be long
until nation truly raises against nation and all hell breaks out again
with a world wide war.(i can almost see the armegeddon coming with red
flags inprinted with WWW) like i said, i wouldn't mind giving up "some"
freedom to "feel" safer. but when it comes down to i shouldn't have to.
our government says they are doing this to protect us...where, how,
when? with all our men gone to war and even more everyday who's really
going to here to fight for us in case of an ambush, we will, we "still"
have to fight on our own, whenever someone desides to walk through your
door unwelcomed, or when u got to worry about walking into a store thats
being robbed, u still have to fight when ur being raped. no one should
ever just lay down and take it for fear. god is the only one/thing u
should fear, and i don't see whats so scary about that. true enough fate
is fate and u can't stop it. but, hatred, war, and all the killings we
can stop if we all could truly become one as did the bible say so.
(can't remember what chapter/verse but, i did read it.)let god take care
of our over population not us. just as we are not the ones thats suppose
to judge another, for we all stand on the same ground beneath the
almighty lords and ladies. so shall we care for that land and not
destroy all that we have left. much love to all my ppls.

Make no mistake singingw, I don't care what anyones opinion is of me as
long as I am true to myself and what I believe...

Obviously the forum is divided on this issue as is the entire country.
There is no black and white, only grey and that's what makes it so
difficult to dicifer. To argue one point or another is futal not only
here but in government as well. You are not going to get everyone to
agree. Commonground must be met by all for there to be any forward
movement in this matter. That is the purpose of the talks is it not?

J

Dittos Jane.

"WELL ME PERSONALLY YES I WOULD GIVE UP A BIT OF FREEDOM FOR SAFETY,I
COME FROM A NAVY FAMILY..EACH OF MY FOREFATHERS FOUGHT FOR OUR
FREEDOM,AND WHEN DIMEBAG GOT SHOT,IT WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED IF THERE
WHERE METAL DETECTORS AT THAT CONCERT,NOW WHEN I GO SEE A SHOW THERE ARE
METAL DETECTORS AND SECURITY GAURDS PAT YOU DOWN ITS FINE WITH ME IF IT
SAVES THE LIFE OF ANOTHER ARTIST I LOVE."

Hi Panterafan

I agree with you.

I would just challenge people to go live in Israel and try not to live
in fear of someone blowing themselves up in a cafe or mall. A concert
would be the ideal place for a terrorist or some wacko to set off a bomb
and or worse set off a dirty bomb and infect people there with some
biological illness and take it home with them and infect others.

I think the real thing to fear are these wackos and not the government.
The real reason why some people get falsely accused of being suspected
terrorist is because people and the media were very critical of the
government after 9/11 happened. Information was not shared or we had
chances to get some of these terrorist but failed to do so because of
red tape.

Yeah I know it's scary to think that the authorities will pull you over
someday and arrest you under suspicion. But I think that's just a scar
tactic to make one think the gov is going to turn into some fictions
dictatorship and control your mind or something.

I think people today are too smart for that kind of notion.
It's easy to think that some big boogie man is out to get us, but it's
another thing think about the alternative.

Ghostrecon

KB i agree with you. the others are listning to a president that has his
own motive for getting us in such a mess.
we are less safe now then we were before 9/11.that has ben a proven
fact.

I haven't seen terrorest blow themselves up in a MacDonalds yet. Have
you?

well if they did, I guess MacDonalds will have a new item on their menu.

Bomber Burger.

It's a blast!

Ghostrecon.

lol, ghost ur ya trip! and > u r J, thats just my point. if we can't get
people to sit down and have a decent dicussion about these things
without a war breaking out because of them then what's the point. i know
and its a shame that we won't ever see eye to eye. god made us all too
different but, he also gave us all only one skill and alternative. self
will. it is that; that we all have in common and that we all should use
to better all our lives. Thats why i do and do not believe in the war.
here we are trying to do good and there they are trying to do bad. but
war is war no matter which way u look at it. it's ALL wrong!

Hi

My mother use to say, " As long as there is two people left on the
planet. There will always be war."

Simplisic truth. Yet makes sense. We have no known preditors unlike
animals. War and desease keeps us in check as well as love keeps us
going.

Peace hun.

Ghostrecon

I don't agree with the war...and I don't think that we should still be
sacrificing lives of our dear men and women of the armed forces. I
think that G-BU (bush's hood name) is an idiot and has been resting on
the laurels of his family name for quite a long time.

And no, we are no safer now than we ever have been and the only reason
we know that is because what happened was so cataclysmic and the effect
and after-effect of 9/11 is/was so dramatic. I personally know someone
who was supposed to be on the flight that crashed into the
Pentagon...thank god he slept through his alarm that day and missed his
plane. I can't say I know how people feel who actually lost someone,
but I know how my heart sank when I couldn't find out if he was okay.

Now a little rant...are we all so self-centered to think that "Big
Brother" is using wiretaps on GP? I may be wrong, but I think that the
idea is to listen to the conversations going on between suspected
"terrorists"...not listen to BillyBob tell Duane about the Monster Truck
Rally. Honestly, what do you talk about on a daily basis that would
cause the government to warrant listening in on your conversations?
Cheez-Whiz is not a matter of "national security".

Personally, I really don't think that it'd do any good anyhow..."we"
didn't see 9/11 coming even though the clues were blatantly
obvoius...even though people is federal government office tried to
provide "warning"..for some asinine reason "we" think that we're the
biggest kid on the playground and we're getting a little egotistical
about it...

Hi

See my post hun.

Bless you.

it doesn't have anything to do with being self centered, it's a fact.
how do you think they determine whether you are involved with anything
or not. what is the big deal with obtaining a warrant? the person that
they are seeking it for doesn't know.
the government makes mistakes all the time and in their frenzy to"prove"
that they are doing something about it they have snatched some people
that don't have anything to do with it, why, because they didn't have
enough evidence to figure out that they were not involved which most
likely would have been cleared up if they had to obtain a warrant. i
guarentee you that they monitor other peoples' calls. intelligence is
based on surveilance but what l9imit are you gonna put on it.
ghost recon, how many terrorist attacks have we had before 9/11?
and about the war in iraq, going into iraq has made us more susceptible
to a terrorist attack then ever. now we don't only have to worry bout al
queda but all of the middle eastern nations that are now unifying
against us. a phone taop is no big deal but what other rights are you
gonna give up. they ain't gonna let us pick and choose so how bout you
give up all of yours first and i'll keep mine. i think that you are
seriously out of touch with the way the government and the way this
world operate. ain't everything roses and kaleidascopes. i don't know if
you lead a sheltered life or what but i don't want to give up mine for
you..is ignorance really that blissful?

Have you ever obtained a warrant? Probably not. Nether have I. But I
don't go telling professionals how to do their job either. It's a scare
tactic to silence you into accepting what the people who know nothing
about what's going on to scare you into their way of thinking.

Former President Clinton dodged a question about whether he had an
opportunity to get Osama. And he said he did, but he sited accusations
that other's were blocking him from acquiring him.

But in fact he deliberately suspended any actions so that Bush would be
responsible.

God bless America.

when he had an opportunity to kill osama he said he put out contracts
and they couldn't get him. when that decision was made noone even knew
who was running for office.

Clinton was too busy as Monica was on her needs.

"now we don't only have to worry bout al
queda but all of the middle eastern nations that are now unifying
against us."

Good point but where would we be if we just sat around and did nothing?
It's kinda like a catch 22.
No right answers.

exactly you haven't ever obtained a warrant so why the hell are you even
bringing it up. i've had stuff like that happen to me so before you blow
your stack why don't you calm down and figure out what you're saying.
i'm not anti government and i'm not a conspiracy theorist but this stuff
happens and i think to deny it is foolish. i couldn't care less if you
want your phones tapped or not but you would be surprised at the kinds
of things that happen when innocent civilians get there phones tapped.
i've seen it happen up close.

Clinton like an old man is now trying to defend his rational about why
he didn't get Osama.

But people will try to blaim someone else so the beat goes on.

we were fighting a war on terrorism and what people don't seem to be
understanding is that iraq did not have anything to do with terrorism.
if we would have stayed in our war with finding the terrorists we would
not be in the position that we are in today. everyone was with us when
we were targeting terrorists but we lost them when we went into iraq
because iraq had nothing to do with terrorism

King...

So you honestly believe that the federal government is monitoring all
phone coversations that happen just incase you're involved in
something?? Do you have any clue as to how absolutely ridiculous that
sounds?

Going with that theory, then we all have unmarked police cars outside
watching our every move "just in case" we're "uo to something"? Come
on, you cannot possibly be that naive...

First off, most authority figures
(president/police/teachers/parents/babysitters) know that the best way
to catch someone is to give them enough rope to hang theirself. Anyone
who is really doing something wrong will eventually "tell" on their
own...

Second, a warrant only makes it admisable in court...which I don't think
is the point. No one's listening to make a case...they're listening to
try and "get the jump" on someone...or find out what kind of plans are
being hatched.

And, as far the legality of it all...that really depends on the state
and such. For instance, in some states you cannot record a phone call
unless all parties on the call consent. However, in Arizona only one
person on the call needs to consent to the recording...and it can be the
person recording the call...and they do not have to inform anyone else
on the call. Isn't that just plain takin' away some of your freedom?

For that matter...what if you're talking on a cordless phone that runs
on a 900Mz bandwidth and I happen to have a multi-band reciever and I
can pick up your calls and listen all night long...yet another freedom
lost??

The thing is we don't know, and probably never will know, how long
people have been listening in. Now it's a big damn deal when it may
have been happening for years. Basically, here's what I think...

Ants in an ant farm don't know that we're watching them...and the world
is just one giant ant farm...wanna guess who the ants are??

Breeze. I thought we were going to talk about this civilly?

What gives? Man?