I say let them wire tap me. I have nothing to hide. I think people who
are really afraid probably have something to hide. I was stopped by the
fuzz numerous time, and ya know what. They never find a damn thing to
get me on cause I have nothing to hide. So if it keeps us safe, I say
why not.

As far as Iraq goes, I think we were within our right to invade even if
there was no WMDs. They had terrorist training facilities there. They
had kits to make air port metal detectors so they could train on how to
get past air port security. so that to me alone is justification enough.

i'm not afraid of the wiretaps and i don't have anything to hide but
first they want warrantless wiretaps, what next. i've been stopped by
the cops too many times to count and they don't find anything either but
it doesn't stop them from making up a reason to give me a ticket. these
things are not gonna make me change a single thing in the way i live but
we are gonna start losing more and more and i don't think it's smart to
just give it away. we aren't actually safer either. do you honestly
think that the few that they have caught are the only ones that tried to
get through? i know the liquis bomb stuff wasn't originating in the US
but they weren't caught based on security measures that were installed
after 9/11, it was based on the old intelligence contacts and reports. i
hope you feel safer anyway.

all around the Mulberry bush...the Monkey chased the weasel....


You are very smart KB...but we all know politics is like religion - it's
just something that can't be argued sucessfully in most cases. There
are pros and cons to both sides and it's never black and white in either
case. But it makes for simulating dialect!

J

hey jane, wow you look different in that picture. i didn't even realize
it was you at first.
yeah i know it is and that's what makes it interesting but it has to be
discussed by people who don't get worked up about it and who are willing
to listen to a different opinion or it ends up an argument. it is a very
passionate topic for some(not always a bad thing). i'm all for
government but you also have to keep them in check because people do get
greedy, afterall they are here to represent us, not rule over us.
i'm in no way making a correlation to the movies but have you seen V 4
VENDETTA(many others just like it)? alot of countries lose their
freedoms to fear and it has been going on since the beginning of the
world. the whole idea of the topic was based on the idea that some
people will give up the world for the perception of safety and stability
even though it really is no different. it's kinda like selling your soul
to the devil for a chance to live in a bubble for the rest of your life
and completely ignoring the fact that the bubble is more fragile than
your life as it was.

I understand where you are coming from. I also read "Big Brother" What
bothers me more than any of that is reading about and watching
documentaries on these dictators. They're insane. What should be done
about them?? Do we as the most cilvilized nation in the world let them
flounder about doing whatever they wish until they rise up against us
and wipe us out? Osama is one of the scariest assholes I have ever
seen. How is it he is able to maintain so much power still...while
living in a freaking hole in the ground?

J

most of them wouldn't rise up against us and that type of fear is what
got us into this mess with iraq now the middle eastern nations actually
are uniting against us. you think it's bad now, all hell is about to
break loose over there and it could have been avoided without bowing
down to any type of unreasonable demands. you are right about osama
though, he is a dangerous man if he wants to be because he took
something that his people feel so strongly about(their religion)and he
made it their rallying cry. he is probably one of the most persuasive
public speakers that has been around lately. when he speaks there is
passion and conviction mixed with a sense of urgency and you can't
underestimate a leader with those qualities(hitler). if they are a
threat i say bomb em but when they are not yet a threat you create one
by instigating it and in this world you can't have that we'll get them
first attitude and try
to have the position in the world that the US does. one of the main
reasons they don't like us is because they call us a bully for getting
involved so i say, bring our troops home to safety and let them kill
themselves over there. when they start crying that we won't help, tell
em to go get fucked. the US is one of the rare countries that can be
completely self sufficient and i don't think we should be risking
citizens lives and taxpayers money to help ungrateful countries when we
have things to worry about here.

Point taken,

I do agree also that we should not be pussy-footing around with these
sand coons. If we were going to get involved at all we should have just
smacked their asses down and been done with it...but, we had to be
diplomatic about it first.


You've given me much to think about...I'll just let your last post
resignate with me a bit.

Great post KB

i definitely agree with you there. we have to be diplomatic as a first
option but if we do scrap there ain't no sense in leaving anything
standing. and why in the hell do we help them rebuild lol i don't get
that one. they have all that oil money and we're paying for the
reconstruction of iraq. it seems to me that if they were that serious
about iraq getting on it's feet, in house construction bids would be far
more beneficial to their economy. but there lies the problem, it would
be beneficial to their economy and not ours. i think that they should
make it a law that our elected officials cannot have any stake in
personal gains from a war or humanitarian effort that this country is
involved in.

Are we to assume that this will become the Ubited States of the Soviet
Union?

Come on now.

That's fine for fiction novels but lets be real. I think in the past
like the sixties you were more likely to be arrested for nothing then
today, Right? I think so. So we've come a long way from there baby. And
I think this is a little set back but it's easy to say that you want
them off your back unless you personally have been affected by
terrorist. Or any crime for that matter.

So I guess why not put a lake where Iraq use to be. Oh and lest say Kill
them all, let God sort them out.

Sure that would solve everything.

Why not.

I do get put out by the fact that we are spending money to help them
rebuild when we can't even rebuild Louisiana after Katrina for god
sakes!! We are not only giving them money but are educating and feeding
them as well...all the while our own public school systems are crumbling
and our own people are starving...

with the Poppy Crop doing very well this year - they should be able to
take care of themselves. Then we will be free to become herion
addicts!!

J

i have been affected many times by crime and it has not changed my
thoughts one bit. i would rather them keep me out of their surveilance
and i'll take my chances with the terrorists because it is not gonna
make a difference. when i posted this i included the story about the
canadian citizen, he did nothing wrong and was tortured and imprisoned
for 3 years before they let him go and he is not the only one. i am not
against government intelligence but you have to draw the line somewhere
or there won't be anything left. i don't know how much contact you have
had with the police ghostrecon(let's hope that all of our contact is
kept to a minimum)but times really haven't changed. police forces and
government officials are as crooked as ever. don't get me wrong here, i
am not an anarchist and i am not much for conspiracy theories but i'm
not gonna let them pull the wool over my eyes either. there isn't
anything wrong with having faith in your government and supporting them
but if they do turn on you because they want absolute control, are you
gonna let them? have you ever been tailed consistently by the police
for doing nothing? have you ever lived in a neighborhood where police
don't come around till someone gets shot and even then it takes forever?
have you ever sat there and watched a 20 min. gun battle in the street
because everyone knew that the police would not be around. do you know
what it is like for a police officer to witness a crime in your presence
and do nothing about it because he is too busy harassing you over
nothing? i hope you never do if you haven't but we ain't safe here in
this country and people should wake up and realize this and deal with it
because if you give up your liberties for the fantasy of safety they
aren't gonna let me keep mine because i'm not scared of some weak ass
threat and a possibility of an attack. people don't make sense because
in one instance we had to send our soldiers to die for our freedom in
iraq because they had terrorist training facilities(ain't true)but you
want to give up those freedoms they are dying for just to feel safer.
that's fucked up, maybe you should give up your freedoms because i don't
want someone in my family dying to give you the freedoms that you want
to give away because of a 1% chance that something might happen. they
got you my man, that's how fear works.

i never said kill em all if they aren't a threat but you don't go into a
war without a plan and without finishing what you started

I live in a small county called Knox in Illinois. We have lost over two
hundred yound men to this war already. I was astounded by that number
when I first heard it. That's unbelievable to me for such a small
region. The majority being under the age of 25. Is that even old
enough to understand the complexities of what they were even fighting
for??? I wonder.


All the same - they are heros to me.

J

Well, I understand your concern be the alternative would be to pull out
and let them fall into mayhem and now we will have a bigger problem then
we do now. I say finish the job and then pull out. But this is why in
W.W.II the media was censored because they knew the general public
wouldn't stand for the pictures of carnage of dead American soldiers and
we would have to cut a deal with Nazis. So because we kept control, not
like today, that we won the war and everyone was in jubilation

people are understanding some different things at different points in
their life and i imagine that alot of them do but alot of them don't.
i've seen alot of young people who go into the military and are not
fully prepared for what being in a war is like. they still kind of have
that cool, did you shoot anybody mentality and then when they come back
and they don't want to go back they shoot theirselves or run. i hate to
keep bringing it up but i don't think we needed to go to iraq and it's
ashame that we lost so many lives over there. those men and women would
have been much better served in a ligitimate beef than dying over a car
bomb in a place where we didn't need to be. if you look at the facts and
disregard the presidents propaganda like speeches, none of it backs up
his reasons for war. people don't know enough of the facts and they get
mesmerized by the fancy speeches and get caught up in the emotion and
forget for a moment what is really going on and by the time they
remember, it's too late.

can i ask ghost recon, what bigger problem do you think we would have by
pulling out know?
i would also like to ask, when is the job finished because the president
and his staff declared the war over long ago

Hi breeze

Yes.

Well to tell ya truth, Who knows.

Would you really want to find out that we may have to fight the new
Iraqi army with all our technology and training we are giving them?

I would have to think that if you asked the generals if we had to go up
against the new Iraqi army, they would probably refuse to answer that do
to they would shutter to think of such a task. Not that we wouldn't be
able to finally defeat them but at what cost.
If we left Iraq now there would be such a power vacuum that we might as
well put Saddam back in power over there.

So I hope this answers your question.

Take care.

Ghostrecon over and out.

thanks for the reply ghost recon but the country is going to be unstable
and susceptible no matter when we leave and as far as the weapons go
that isn't going to matter either because we already gave them to them.
it's not like the longer we stay the less they are going to want to use
them against us if they want to.

don't you think that you just explained why we should have just left
after we destroyed them?