It is so sad to me that you look at this as a bad thing...my husband is also my covering...but what do you think that I am bound in chains and have no say in anything....because if this is what you think.....you are sadly sadly mistaken.

I also jmo here....think that this world is messed up when it comes to marriage....you can get married one day and have in annulled the next......We make it way way to easy to get out of it. This is sad because people need to take the vows of marriage more serious. When it says till death do us part.......or when you fight, or want to just go screw someone eles........pity pity the state of marriage in this country.

(((deb))) I love you dearly but I had to comment to this, I do believe that vows are not taken as serious as they used to or should be...but it is not easy. And I guess until you have been in a bad marriage you can't ever really know how NOT EASY it is. I do love ya sweetie...just had to add my two cents!

the Wikapedia came up for me but no pic......thanks krisma

Yes Deb you need to to copy and paste the entire link up into your scroll bar at the top. Its from the Wikapedia site but if you do that, it goes directly to the photograph.

I love you to susie......Marriage never had a clause that it was going to be easy....It something you have to work on everyday,......And I know you susie you exhausted every meausre and had no choice....But I am more talking about for example Pam Anderson who marries just for the sake of wearing a pretty dress...then gets divorced 2 months later. It's way way way to easy in this country and lets people off the hook for working at it....marriage is to much work for most.....that is pathetic.

I agree sweetie...I was a FIRM believer in "til death do us part" and WAY too many people don't believe in that but it is like soooooo many things in this world anymore we live in a selfish age of "do we want, whatever the cost"!

I’m not sure these women in biblical times even had that option. If your husband was beating you or assaulting you or forcing you to become pregnant, there were probably not a lot of options available for you. You couldn’t call the neighborhood "police" for example to report a domestic violence incident. You probably would not want the Romans involved with anything of that nature either. It was best to be very quiet in most cases.

okie dokie

ok Krisma I saw it......now tell me something....

what do the following mean to you?

BC

BCE

AD

And how interesting that these are used today for something that you all don't believe happen at all....hmmmmmm



Now with all.....even when the Israelites worshiped their gold cow....These are false idols. Do not worship false idols....Of of all the commandments this was probably the one that irked God the most. Now this is not to say that you can't....And tell me what was the purpose of it in the first place. I am not that lame I know there was greek mythology and such as what your bringing up. But just like with the greek mythology that is what it is called.....Now please find me one piece of evidence that show Christ as a myth......Because there is much history that back up that he as well as the disciples were here.....no myth.

This again is sooooo not true.....Women were very important to the household...and I think back then they were put on a pedestal much so more then.....then today. Just as with slaves.....do I condone slavery....no but the slaves were treated very well and when it was time that they could leave they were given land and money and most of the time they stayed.

I don't think the word male and female are interchangable. Women were considered property ...not men. The laws were written more for the men. Back then, a woman could not divorce a man just because he committee premarital fornication. etc.

The story of Jesus is a plagiarized myth of a savior god that has been told in the past. The one that is most similar to that one is the story of Mithra.

Here is one similar myth, there are others.

double post

I think I might do a thread of the women of the Bible.....these were amazing, strong, independent women.

Information you wanted before.....

She probably began to menstruate at about 10-12 years of age. The onset of menstruation was celebrated, because it showed that the girl had passed from childhood into womanhood.
At puberty she was introduced to the special customs that Jewish women followed, particularly those relating to menstruation.

During her menstrual period, a Jewish woman was relieved of many of her normal duties. She was not required to draw and carry water from the well. She did not have to serve food to members of the family. She did not have to go to the marketplace. She did not have sexual intercourse. The days of her menstrual period were regarded as a time out, a time for herself. On these days, relieved of a number of her duties, she had time to think and rest.

Special rules guarded her privacy and rest at this time. They were called the ‘purity laws’. These laws made it impossible for members of her family to demand that she do her normal tasks. There were purity laws for men as well: men washed themselves and changed their clothes whenever they had a sexual emission.

After her menstrual cycle, a woman was required to bathe herself from head to toe in a special pool of clean water, called a mikveh. Each small community would have its mikveh, and towns and cities had large numbers of them, some public, some private. The mikveh pool had to be designed and built a special way, so that it had

enough headroom under water to allow complete immersion
a supplementary tank for gathering clean rain water
a small pool at the entrance for washing hair, hands and feet before entering the main pool (in 2 Samuel 11:1-5 Bathsheba is bathing herself after her monthly period when David sees her).

The purpose of the monthly bathing in the mikveh was for physical and spiritual cleanliness. The washing of the body was a tangible way for a woman to renew herself, refreshing mental, emotional and physical energies. It was a ritual that periodically gave a woman the feeling of a fresh start.

The rules of ritual cleanliness meant that most people were obliged to wash themselves, wash their clothes, and put on clean clothes at frequent intervals.

There is no doubt that the hygiene that resulted from the purity laws was beneficial to the health of the whole population. Where mothers maintain personal cleanliness, there is much less infant mortality, and so the cleanliness of Jewish women benefited the whole population.

It is difficult to say whether the laws regarding cleanliness arose from a conscious connection between cleanliness and good health, or an intuitive one. Indeed, Jews at the time (and now) would state that the ritual purity laws were obeyed not for their logic but because they were part of being a Jew.


MARRIAGE

The first of God’s commands in the Bible concerns the propagation of the human species: ‘be fruitful and multiply’ (Genesis 9:7). Jews believed it was their duty to marry as early in life as possible. For a woman, marriage plans could be made at the onset of puberty. For a man, 18 years was the recommended age. Any person who had passed the age of 20 without being married was not carrying out the will of God. A man might postpone marriage in order to study the Torah, but only in very rare instances were people permitted to remain unmarried for life.

Who chose the husband?

The whole family joined in the selection of an appropriate husband for a girl, but her wishes were certainly taken into account (Genesis 24:5, 8). Even the feelings of a female war captive were, to some extent, respected; she was given a month to mourn for her lost family before being forcibly married to her captor (Deuteronomy 21:10-14).

If it seems strange to us that the choice of a husband was a matter for the whole family to determine, we must remember the young woman was allying herself not only with her husband, but with his whole family too. The couple would not form a nuclear family in the modern sense, for these were virtually unknown in ancient society, but become part of a larger family. Thus the girl’s family had to be sure that she was marrying someone whose family and way of life would be compatible with hers. She would probably be living and working with these people for the rest of her life.

The qualities that a Jewish woman looked for in a husband were:

someone a few years older than herself, and of the same social standing

a student of the Hebrew Scriptures, for scholarship meant that a man was intelligent, prepared to work, and able to reason and think

someone possessing enough money and goods to be able to give her status, comfort and security

someone whose family was reputable, with no scandal or bad blood associated with his family

someone physically attractive, because Jews believed that a happy sex life was one of the greatest gifts God gave to a married couple.

The qualities that a Jewish man looked for in a wife were:

Jewish descent, because transmission of ‘Jewishness’ was through the Jewish mother

someone from a respectable family, since family characteristics could be transmitted to succeeding generations

the daughter of a man who was learned and had studied
a girl about the same age as the man or younger

someone known for her good sense, good behavior and kindliness

if possible, someone who was physically beautiful, but an intelligent mind and a cheerful personality were in the long run even more important.

A Jewish family tried to provide each daughter with a dowry, which was property handed over by her family at the time of her marriage, and afterwards owned by the wife. It was her share of the family inheritance, enough to act as an income for her should she be abandoned or widowed. Whether there was sufficient to do this for every woman, we do not know.

In neighboring Mesopotamia, the dowry could be inherited only by the woman’s sons, not by any of her husband’s family. This was a precaution against the dowry being used to enrich the husband’s family. Much of Jewish law is based on Mesopotamian law, so Jewish families probably had a similar practice regarding dowries.

In some cases, a bride-price was expected. This was compensation paid to the bride's family for the loss of their daughter and the services she could have provided to her family, had she remained with them. The bride-price was paid by the groom's family. Naturally, the amount depended on the wealth and status of the family.

BIRTH

Hebrew women gave birth in their own tents or houses. During labor they were surrounded by other women: a midwife, their relatives and friends, and female servants of the family. They would certainly have seen other women give birth, so they knew what to expect and what to do.

Hebrew women gave birth in a squatting position, above a hole hollowed out of the ground. On either side of the hole were bricks or stones for the woman to stand on. She was supported at her back and under her arms by other women, either midwives or family members. As soon as the baby was born its umbilical cord was cut, then it was washed and wrapped in long bands of cloth (swaddling bands) which held the limbs of the baby firmly, though not tightly.

It was obvious to the ancient Israelites that the central task of women, one that could not be taken over by anyone else, was childbirth. It was also obvious that women suffered in the process of giving birth. The explanation for this, according to Genesis, was that the original balance of creation had been disturbed: in an ideal world (that is, the Garden of Eden) birth would not bring suffering.

A woman who gives birth has the status of a Niddah (a menstruant) whois both ritually impure and off-limits as far as intimate activity to her husband. The act of giving birth induces a special nidus state unrelated to the uterine bleeding that normally separates husband and wife. This special nidus extends for seven days after the birth of a
son and fourteen days after the birth of a daughter. Since it is most unusual for a woman to stain for less than two weeks after childbirth, this special nidus has little practical application, except in some cases of cesarean delivery. The ritual after the end of the period is the same as in normal Niddah status: immersion in a mikveh.

During the time of the Beis HaMikdash (Holy Temple) there was an obligation to bring a korban (offering) forty days after the birth of a boy or eighty days after the birth of a girl. As to why the purification for the birth of a female is longer, the belief is that this is because since a female herself is capable of producing life, she is capable of imparting more ritual purity as well as impurity.

Yeh I was a believer in "till death do us part" too but the bastard escaped with his life.



To be honest, it was I who escaped with my life.

BC is defined as "Before Christ"

BCE is used additionally and stands for "Before the Common Era"

A.D. stands for Anno Domini, which is Latin for "year of our Lord," and it means the number of years since the birth of Jesus Christ. That was 2000 years ago, so the date 500 A.D. means 1500 years ago.

They are commonly used points of reference used in modern cultural, physical anthropology and archeology today. I know you are not really hip to the whole "scientific community" but that's where it is used.

So you will also notice that the Goddess from Crete that I showed you a photo of existed at 1600 BCE. My question to you is WHY god would have so much contempt for idolatry. Why was he indeed so worried that these new followers would slip back into their old forms of pagan worship? I am not merely bringing up Greek Mythology or Minoan history Deb; it reaches back to the Neolithic. That is well before the Israelites and much before Christianity. I never told you that Jesus was myth? I told you he was man. Flesh and blood. Human. Tell me where there is non-faith based evidence to the contrary if you will.

Yes well relationships in general are not easy. Intimacy cuts both ways.

Well this is true.....but nonetheless......It is required of God....Now before God commanded this of course how can you only worship God if he was not there yet. I feel that when God came and still people would worship false idols this is what is meant by that. I think people for eternity have always felt the need to appease their Gods...whether it be goddesses, zeus or even the snake ladies of Bali......And for me when God came into the picture and claimed who he was and showed the people his power and people still wanted to worship their false idols...that was a no no.

When Moses was on the mountain and speaking to God and came down to them dancing an carrousing and worshiping the cow....He got so angry that he threw the tablet at the mountain.

Now as for Jesus.......Jesus was more then just a man.....amd the reason why I say this is because God said he was his greatest joy....And he was his Son (God) just for that alone does not make him a mere man. When Christ was cornered by the scribes and they asked him who he was......Christ claimed he was God's Son.....This to them was Blasphemy they were appalled.....But it was the truth. And remember all this was fortold....long long before Jesus actually came. And as barbaric as it seems....When Christ left heaven and God placed him to a be a man in Mary's womb.....God and Christ knew all that was going to happen before it did. He knew Christ that he was going to die.....Now some people say why then did Christ right before his death shout out......Father Father why have you forsaken Me. And that was not because God left him....But God had to turn away for all the sin and burdens that were going onto His Son.

Well at least we agree that Christianity would have been in direct competition with the much older Pagan belief structure. This is a valid conclusion that can be drawn based on the actual evidence and even what is written in the bible itself by these assorted men. God would have had a very specific agenda as it related to his new religion. To wipe clean the existence of ANY worship that took place prior. That’s a tall order. When it could not successfully be accomplished by simply threatening these villagers, things became a little more heated. Part of this older religion included the belief that females gave birth. No male god could do that. It would be absurd to even try to assert this notion. So therefore, where god could not put down these older religions, he simply discredited. I only have to tell you it would become worse and more blood would be spilled the further into history we go. You are also right. It was a definite "no no" to practice these pagan religions anymore. They were not having it. I’m not sure it had as much to do with god "showing himself" to the people and proving what a bad ass he was as it did that human men would kill you if you resisted. That took place on Earth.

I’m sorry. I do respect your views but I don’t accept at face value that Jesus Christ was anything other than a man. I guess I just can’t have faith and use that in the face of evidence to the contrary.

Absolutely. I can’t look at any one of those laws and see where the genders could be substituted for one another. I have to politely disagree with that assertion and attempt at minimizing just how seriously some of these laws would have affected women and the overall quality of their lives. Prison has fewer regulations.