So are you saying that everyone DOES NOT have the right to interpret scripture for themselves? What gives you that idea?

Feral: No JB that is not what I am saying....but you can't change it from it's original meaning is either. No matter how you interpret it....you can't just say this is how I say it is so neener neener. When you interpret scripture that means taking it sentence by sentence and looking for what it was written to mean....not what you think it means....and no matter what JB there are no dragon people or aliens...

It says what it means and means what it says...

..There is that phrase again.... boy I bet your mom or someone must have told you that a million times, you can't seem to get it out of your head.

Feral: This is mine and only mine and I am forced to use it over and over again because all you guys say is give us proof and over and over again I do....You want to interpret the Bible to fit your lives.....Doesn't work that way.....the Bible says what it means and means what it says....there now you have it again...gigglesnort.

and you CANNOT interpret it to follow what you think is the truth......I have no rights either....but I sure as heck don't read and study the Bible to fit my needs....I study to learn God's word....and I live by God's word...and as long as people keep the film over there eyes and the wax in their ears...they will never get it....and it clearly states this in the Bible....Parable of the seed in Matthew if you would like to see for yourself.

And there is a difference between interpreting say the Virgin birth and saying it just is not so......or didn't happen....that is not an accurate way to interpret the Word of God.


Opinions. And I will defend your right to have those opinions with my life Feral. Because if you can have those opinions then that means I am intitled to have mine.

Feral: Always JB

Quickstop, Manuel, is a common male name in the Hispanic community. I was not sure if you meant that or manual....which would be like a pamphlet that explains how to do something or an instruction booklet. Sorry if that was terribly confusing for you. My apology.

Your joking right!!!!!!


answers you wanted em....I gave em to ya






Lord have mercy on me.....

Well Feral, when I do that, I mean, when I take it sentence by sentence and look at the literal meaning of that sentence, I am told by some Christian that I have taken it "out of context." or I am told by some Christian that it does not really mean that, it means this... and they proceed to give me their own interpretation or their particular churches interpretation.

So you are saying that I can't "change it from its "original meaning" but how do you know what its "original meaning" was?

Somebody somewhere had to decide what its original meaning was, and what then gives them the right to make that distinction and interpret the Bible for everyone else?

When Jesus told his disciples that they must eat his flesh and drink his blood are you telling me that I am supposed to take that meaning literally?

Where in the Bible does it explain that eating the flesh of Jesus means anything but eating his flesh? Where in the Bible does it explain that drinking his blood means anything other than the literal meaning of drinking his blood?

JB




The snake man in the garden walked on two legs and had a tail. That is one of the dragon races.

The fallen angels themselves were not human. They were reptilian in nature. You cannot disprove this, so don't tell me they don't exist. I believe they do. I have seen plenty of evidence and I have heard first hand from eye witnesses. You only have a 2000 year old book.

JB

Where?

Feral Wrote:



And Everytime this subject is brought up I list all the PLACES in the bible that are THOUGHT to be discussing homosexuality and I post WHY some scholars beleive these verses have been misread and misunderstood. How the words are taken out of the context of the times they were written in. How 'new' words have been added and it all gets very long and involved.

But Deb is oblivious to attempting to see with an open mind what other scholars are saying and instead INSISTS with her usual NO NO NO GOD SAID IT'S WRONG AND IT'S WRONG....

That is the point at which Deb claims she has won the battle. No discussion, no debate, not thought, only her belief that the puck passed the goalie and was trapped by the netting of her quick tongue to respond with her vehement NO NO NO....

Deb, Would you like me to print all the arguments, once again, in this thread? Perhaps if you say yes, I might also print your hearty NO NO NO responses. Perhaps seminary may be a good place for you're mind to expand, or at least a place in which you are not the one who KNOWS everything, all alone.

NEXT TIME I'M GOING TO READ FURTHER BEFORE I POST.








Deb, is seminary like college, do you learn to debate there? I agree with Lola, you REALLY need to go there.

Redy, she used the same tactic with one of my arguments about the word "unclean". Instead of just looking at how the word is used in Leviticus (verbatum) she insists that I would need to show EVERY single time in the bible the word "unclean" is used and do a comparison of them and their contexual meaning.

A. That would not be practical on an open forum but it would allow her to feel like she had "won" an argument for once.

B. The point is that in Leviticus, the word "unclean" would seem to indicate that it means UNCLEAN in a spiritual sense based on the entire verse. I just dont know what else to do here. She has done that more than once just so you know. With a few people.

Feralcatlady has a metal door that slams shut to anything but what she holds to be true. She will accept no input that conflicts to her strongly held conclusions.

The Bible states that women should not speak or preach. They are to be subservient to their husbands too. There are spirit based churches in my town that preach this still. But yet it is not part of Feralcat's religion.

Puritans even tortured women who talked back to their husbands. But she says that things have changed, that is no longer what God wants.

Yet when it comes to homosexuality, they insist it is a sin. Have not the times changed? Not when it comes to procreating the earth with more slaves for the empire it has not.

Go forth and multiply! Have babies! We need more slaves.

JB

Nope. According to what Feral told me I should take each sentence and interpret words for what they actually mean and not try to put my own interpretation on them

So unclean simply means.... damn girl you need a bath!!

JB

WRONG WRONG WRONG! The tree was not an actual tree, it was not a fruit that was picked and eaten.

The tree was the evil serpant, though why god created it in the first place and then let it go awry is beyong anyone's knowledge - except maybe Deb, she seems to have all the clues, she just forgot that the story wasn't "fundamentally" verbatim.

So anyway, Adam and Eve were not supposted to listen to or follow the serpent but that 'ole free will that god uses to TEST people got in the way. And then god blames Adam and Eve for the failing of HIS perfect creation. He gave them free will but told them not to use it - they did and so they are punished for failing the first big test.

Does anyone think we can EVER pass a test by such a cynical, manipulative god????

COME ON DEB get your clues in a row.

Here is the truth about WILL. It is always free.

The alien God that "created" Adam and Eve could do nothing about the Will. (He would have loved to prevent humans from having it.)

But He couldn't.

Because the Will is always free. It is the thing that makes you a person and an individual.

The Will comes from Prime source, it comes from a higher power than any creator god in the lower worlds. Creator gods are many, and they can not give or take the Will from any creature.

JB

Hi Krimsa, JB - didn't mean to overpost you, I was still catching up.

Sorry Deb if I was harsh, but once in a while someone has to be gut wrenchingly honest with you.

In all seriousness, you should attend seminary. You may not believe this but I have several pastors in my family. From my discussions with them, I believe you have a lot to learn and one of the BIGGEST feats for you will include being humble enough and knowledgable enough to be open minded and know that your faith will not be shaken. Today you stumble because your faith can not pass the test of an open mind, merely becasue you lack knowledge.

Go Deb go, you can do it - learn what you love.

She really believes that she has presented "proof."

She should realize that religion is faith based and there is no proof.

(But it is like telling someone that in our bankrupt corporate system of the United States of America (a corporation) there is no money, only debt and I.O.U.'s.)

They just don't understand the concept.

JB

Hey there Lil one...don't defend yourself...you don't have to. It's very apparent that there are a few here who are truly THREATENED by the truth.

It's so plain to see... let them rant ...It's not about you or any other person of Faith. Be blessed...

Yes. I have spoken though briefly with a Catholic priest who was very friendly and told me of course the bible is chauvinist. Its one of the most misogynistic books ever written in history. Now that is coming from a priest. So let’s just get real folks. And Deb, if it was god's will to treat women badly way back in antiquity, but now "things have changed for the better" according to you, why then was God so harsh in his desired treatment of females for so long? What makes you think he has changed his mind about anything? Or is it just that his followers have changed the way they do things to avoid discrimination lawsuits filed against them left and right...?

Homosexuality is not wrong in Gods eyes. It has always been here and it will always be here.

The creatures of Adam and Eve were originally from a race of beings who were both male and female. They were altered into a man and a woman.

The many cases of children born today who are both male and female are examples of the genetic memory returning to correct the tampering of these beings who were planted on the earth to breed with primitive mankind who already lived here.

There is no telling how many surgeries were performed at birth to correct this situation without regard to the effect it might have on the child. Some surgeries were done even without the parents consent I suspect.

I know one couple who found out about their child who had both sex organs, and had to argue with the doctors who wanted to operate and make the child a male or female. They said they would wait and let the child decide later in life.

JB

Krimsa.

In sympathy for your desire to peer into what is meant by a woman's state in childbearing as being 'unclean' I have looked into it for whatever I might find that may make sense in some form of comfort to you concrning that, as it is read in English in Leviticus 12:2.

This word is used elsewhere, only sparsely, as in connection to the Lord speaking through the prophets to the people of Isra-el and more often than not which ius rarely used anyway, connected to spiritual idolatry and the repugnancy to the Lord of sacrificing children as written of in Ezekiel. But in these cases, this word for unclean is called 'pollute(d)'.

That aside.....

in childbearing, there is a context given for this uncleanness as described in Leviticus 12.
It is this ; "according to the days of the separation for her infirmity..."

twice, for a male and a female child being birthed, vs 2 and 5, her 'separation' is emphatic to this ritual.

The 'separation' means quite literally, to reject.
in the sense of the root of that word which means to push away.

This time is also called one of infirmity for a woman in childbearing.

Now, conveniently enough, this word for infirmity is not the 'infirmity' as read in English of any other use of this word in the OT laws and ordinances. It is used here in Leviticus 12 only once and no where else in the whole of scri[pture as 'infirmity'. It also is not a spiritual or emotional infirmity as depicted in the NT either.

It is a root word which means, "to be sick" and paranthetically, menstruation. Infirmity.


It may very well be that the Lord doesn't get it through the thick skuylls of men that women are severly stressed in childbirth and have a need to be given a minimum of slack from the demands and duties that women typically endure caring for others.

I will leave it to mothers to tell of how very stressful childbearing is. LOL

I see care here.

I do not see that women are being ridculed by the writings of men.

I do sense that men are not sensitive enough to realize just how violent and harmful childbearing can be to a woman's body. And, as well, her emotions while in such distress.

I have witnessed childbirth. Not for me LOL

Well, I hope that answers your inquiry better than worse, in so far as uncleanness of women in childbearing is concerned.

JB

Your are the best for a gigglesnort thats for sure....and in a good way....


When you study the bible you do with people that know more then you do or I do for that matter.....I am always learning but from people that know the scriptures not from people who just want to put their own spin on it....how lame would that be. That would be like learning spanish from a German,

And you have taken a alot of scripture out of context JB....that is in no way a put down to you.....I mean have you ever had extensive bible study...I doubt it.....I have and am still learning every day......This is the ticket....for the most part people that are using scripture....like wouldee and Eljay know the scripture.........So I don't even have to read their...even though I do to know that they have it right. It's not a matter of being a "churches interpretation." It just a matter of knowing the Bible...and the only way is to study......I have studied with Jahovah witnesses, mormons, catholics, I have studied aramaiac, hebrew, greek......and still need to learn so so so much more. I have even been told I was wrong by eljay and wouldee....and I don't mind because I am still learning....

You know the original meaning by studying with Bible scholars, teachers, and letting God open your heart so that it all fits and makes sense.

When Jesus said to his disciples take this bread....this is my body......remember me.....same with the wine as his blood......Now someone who has studied would know this.......It is what communion is all about.

The snake was satan and was wrapped around the Tree of Knowledge.

There is no dragon races......giggle

The fallen angeles were just as it sounds....they were angels who decided to follow satan instead of God.

I can disprove it....because it's just not so.......And please JB.....just one piece of evidence for your dragon people.

And remember I have the greatest proof of all


GOD

lol now you being just an annoying lil girl.....







read it yourself......not my job