you mean the same guy that said jesus was going to rapture him in 1988 - that pat robertson is he still here? hmmm? opoops - yep sure is and all the other christians to. hmmm? prophet pat seems to have alot of problems

I can't stand that guy. I cringe every time I flip the channel on the t.v. and see his ugly face with those squinty eyes and mouse ears. Can't hit that button fast enough.

I want to see that guy off the air.

Everyone please pray that he gets canceled.

JB

if he goes then TBN and all the rest have to also. i wonder how many here watch those guys????

Ah, but by some estimates, he's a billionaire, and in America, that always means you can buy access and get your opinions/agenda heard.

Here's another of his 'famous' statements:



"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992

I swear to God if all men were like him I would become a lesbian. He is the most ridiculous idiot I have ever seen.

He makes my skin crawl.

JB

You use this "They" a lot. I have never copied and pasted a single concept I've discussed here - other than quoting the bible phrase I'm discussing for reference. What is the point of cut and paste? It demonstrates clearly that the opinion of another is being adopted - and believed. Unless it is the OP and being thrown out for discussion - it is what it is, a demonstration of laziness with an agenda - as Wouldee said. Even more so it is deceptive - because credit is not even given to the individual who's idea is being offered here, and who aren't available for questioning.

Forgive my quote - but "I don't want to be Mr. Pink. I want to be Mr. White!".

Actually - It was I who stated this, although Deb may have also. The point that "unclean" in Leviticus being used in a spiritual sense is false exegesis - as it is unsupported by the other uses of "unclean" within the same book - as used by the same author, and indicates that interpreting it in this manner is in direct conflict with the command "increase and multiply".
This indicates a misinterpretation of the word "unclean" in THIS context (as spiritual) rather than a contradiction textually. Further examiniation of the word "unclean" is warrented.

That is what you should do - if you don't know how else to interpret it. The word is used for the first time in Lev 5:2 and is referencing an animal. To better understand what is being referenced by "unclean" - the term "clean" needs to be understood - and just what it means as it is discussed in Leviticus. There is no doubt that Levituicus is written with the underlining theme that these "rules" are given to the Isrealites for their purpose of conducting allegorical rituals, and for the ceremonial worship of God. Though not stated clearly in black and white - the idea of "clean" is associated with "purity" - and were given to the people to perform as a constant reminder that they were to seek rightiousness and purity in their lives, in thought, word and action. In doing so - things would go well for them. In not - there were consequences - some that would extend beyond the actions of the individual to the group as a whole.

This is not necessarily a way of life that was considered worthy by only the Isrealies - but this type of lifestyle has been adopted by just about every generation in one way or another - all through time. We exhibit it today in the way that we establish laws to govern society - and incarcerate criminals so that their actions do not extend beyond themselves to society at large.

The beginnings of this thought - can be traced back to Leviticus, and the very passage you wish to understand. That is the bigger picture that needs to be examined when questioning one word in a specific reference - or a single concept within a group of passages that is discussed in the entire book.

So - to respond to the idea that "unclean" here means spiritual - having not considered all that I've discussed before, is analogious to trying to explain why a single toe is not the best way to describe why an elephant is not small and round, and couldn't possibly have a trunk.

I hope this is helpful.

lj

They don't. The word male and female are interchangable here. It is the action that is wrong and will bring with it consequences. It's not gender dependent.

Yes - and in Pagan society they were passed around first - then killed for sport. I don't see any of you woman complaining about what was going on in scripture with woman - to what was happening to them ouside of the Irealite world?

Or do you think it was a world of Ozzie and Harriet?

This is not an endorsement on my part of what it is you are compaining about - but a demonstration of your lack of examining the larger issue at hand. Unless you were a queen in the days of Leviticus - as a woman you'd have traded your live for any of the woman who were Isrealites.

Well - I don't know who you mean by "those guys"
But I watch TBN, The Word Network, Trinity Broadcast - pretty much most of them. But I don't watch it regularly (I mean - I do have the NFL Station!!!) just some of "those guys" who actually are biblical scholars - and who's opinion I respect. Pat is not amoungst them however. Nor is Benni Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Joel Olsteen. This is not the group I watch. Most have likely not heard of the one's I respect who broadcast on these stations.

But then again - Howard Stern and Hiraldo also broadcasts on the same networks that Walter Cronkite and David Brinkley did. Hmmm... Am I aging myself?

What would really help is if you show me. Find the actual text in the bible where the word unclean is used and how we might possibly me misinterpreting its point of reference in Leviticus 12. Put your money where you mouth is so to speak Eljay. You claim I have not read the bible. I have done the leg work otherwise I would not have found this passage. It’s your turn to show me where I might have misunderstood the intended reference to the word. That’s only fair.

Also you still have not addressed these issues. Unless your ONLY argument at this point is this proposed "misinterpretation" on our part? That would require proof. Do you think a scientist or an actual professor of mathematics could just rely on "what he or she thinks"? Our community disapproves of that. You can have a hypothesis that you either prove or disprove through logic and reasoning or experimentation. We don’t have the luxury of just basing "facts" on the conformation of our own belief structure.

Why was the atonement or "cleansing period" twice as long if a woman should give birth to a female infant as opposed to a male child?

Why were women advised to not touch "holy" objects until this ritual cleansing had been completed?

Why did this process just happen to take place immediately after childbirth? Women go for a span of time where they do not have periods following birth. Breast feeding lengthens this time period and the bottle for feeding babies was not invented yet. All of these women would have been breast feeding Eljay. So that is further physical evidence to discredit your argument that this was only for her medical state and well being. These priests would have had zero in the way of concern for her reproductive health.

Why would she need to pay the priests for her sin of childbirth? It is referred to as sin twice in Leviticus.

Tell me the answers to these questions BASED on the actual verse, not what you think it might mean. Or what they possibly could have meant to minimize the damage here. You also just contradicted yourself. You mention that Leviticus and its use of the word "unclean" are in direct contrast with Genesis and "be fruitful and multiply." Yes it is! That was the contradiction that I initially brought forth on this thread. You just now admitted it. It is a contradiction in terms and god can’t seem to decide what he wants. Presumably, he wants more children to be raised as "good Christian folk" but at the same time, he's not really sure he wants to share the limelight with human females who actually create life from their own bodies. Because, you see, he (god) wants to be the ONLY one who creates life. So since there is no way for a mythological male figurehead to create life in reality, human females will have to do BUT, they better pay atonement, ritually cleanse themselves, and do something about this ability to create babies that they posses. They are being made to feel it’s wrong and shameful whereas for thousands of years before the advent of Christianity, birth was held in the minds of both men and women as a wonderful power to be honored as all birth and life was in the Pagan tradition.

While you are at it, do you believe that the bible does not have a VERY anti-female tone in many passages?

Oh no, I was afraid Pat Robertson might somehow become involved with this topic. I have never felt it right to ask someone to "pay for their salvation".

Whoa whoa whoa, wait up here a minute. You really should not be espousing a bunch of assumptions on your part nor repeating what you have been told by supporters of Christianity about Pagans. This was the dominant religious belief that has existed well before Christianity. There is archeological evidence (yes physical) that supports Earth/Goddess based beliefs extending as far back as the Neolithic.

You have yourself admitted to knowing very little about Wicca, Witchcraft, Goddess or earth based spirituality or paganism. So now you know enough to start accusing the pagans of the actual tortures that the Christians were responsible for?

Thou shalt have a quiet place as to hear Him when he wants to talk to you.

Thou shalt have a quiet place as to hear Him when he wants to talk to you.

Nothing came up.

I can't speak of greek mythology or anything else.....And can only speak as a Christian with your questions Krisma.

Does not God say DO NO WORSHIP ANY OTHER GOD'S......

That doesn't mean ok worship snake women.


He mean what he says and says what he means.....Again just so in case not clear...

1st Commandment

DO NOT WORSHIP ANY ANY ANY OTHER GODS

Why is he so jealous and worried about it then Deb? What do you mean, the photo did not come up? Let me check the link.

It appears to work just fine on my end. You need to make sure you are copying and pasting the entire link. Maybe you cut some off. Can everyone else see it? JB could I think.