Boy O Boy do I agree with you here.

I agree with all you said...and to add that it does no good to debate. The only way people will know is by living life & experiencing it firsthand. Discussion & debate do nothing for the spirit man.

It's about the experience. God's word is tried & true no matter how mankind feels about it. Christian faith is not blind...it knows where it's going...for sure.

LOL..WOULDEE...DUDE! You are AWESOME!!!!

Thanks for sharing... so right on!!!!

That's exactly it Wouldee.

God will not answer to anyone's terms, including those who try to confine god to their own twisted interpretations of any particular book or religon.

I'm with you all the way on that one Wouldee.

Ok - since no one has asked yet, I will.

Why did god create a whole world, a whole environment in which human was to 'lord' over and then put a TREE in it garded by angels that man could not touch?

Sounds like it's either a contradiction or a test. But why would god create such a test? Why would god create such a tree?

Of couse speaking of Angels, wouldn't that be considered another species? Yes, perhaps from another worldly dimension, but another species anyway. So why would this planet be the only one to be worthy of any godly creations? And if that is erroneous, then why was man the only creation in need of saving?

So many questions, but so difficult to get to them all.

Here's a suggestion. Since Quicksteper and Feral seem to have a direct line to god, maybe we pose our questions to them and have them, both, ask god for a reply and see how he responds to both of them. To make it fair we should have a blind, someone who believes in god but who has never heard god speak to him/her. The three could ask the question we pose of god and then come back and each of them tell us what god said. Of course we would have to ask god to abide by certain rules, specifically we must ask that god not reference the bible in any way, but rather speak his own words.

There now! Finally a chance for those who speak to god to get some answers to REAL questions, and not just the one they think he should answer.

What do you all think?

I'm in!

If someone would like to reply to this i think it would be mast interesting;

JB:

QUOTE:

GE 10:5, 20, 31
There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.

5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

************************


GE 11:1
There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 11

1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.


TRIBO:



NOW THAT ONES UP FOR DEBATE!!!


Strong's - there seems to be little diff in the words Strong:8193 language and 3956 leah-o-naw' for tongue.

8193 means language most definitely,

3956; tongue/tongues = speech OR language

so now explain this please?

contradiction Or not?

the other Strong's def. cannot be the meaning within the context of the meaning in the structure of sentences.

hmmm? quite interesting, but wont happen, but i'll let them tell you why. hahaha

REDY:

Here's a suggestion. Since Quicksteper and Feral seem to have a direct line to god, maybe we pose our questions to them and have them, both, ask god for a reply and see how he responds to both of them.

T: - ok

To make it fair we should have a blind, someone who believes in god but who has never heard god speak to him/her. The three could ask the question we pose of god and then come back and each of them tell us what god said.

T: - ok

Of course we would have to ask god to abide by certain rules, specifically we must ask that god not reference the bible in any way, but rather speak his own words.

T: - now this may be a problem R, what your asking is for god to not use his own supposed words? would it not hold that if these are his words that he could do no other than to speak them? or are you saying for him to say the same thing in a different way? which really would amount to the same thing? doesn't make sense to me?

There now! Finally a chance for those who speak to god to get some answers to REAL questions, and not just the one they think he should answer.

What do you all think?


i'm in on the other parts, could be quite interesting.

yip yapping tongues.

hard to say, tribo.

to require 3956 to be used figuratively as speech or language, it would have to be a figurative context. It is not.

Nimrod of Babel is a son of Noah. That isestablished in this chapter. The story following in the next chapter is also deemed literal.

thye root of leshonah is lashan (3960) a primitive root, to lick. But used only as a denom. of 3956; to wag the tongue.

That being said, there is a possibility that manner of speech and mannerisms are being expressed, perhaps even, certain colloquials peculiar to each family.

It is also being given in Strong's that lashan, 3960, is also to calumniate.; -accuse, slander.

I bet Bill O'Rielly would love that word, calumniate. LOL. Go Fox News. Hannity for King. LOL


Now, after baiting a rabbit trail of concessions, then let's look at 11:1 and 2 as though it is an aside to these geneologic lists.

Gen 11:2) and it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

Now, if we split hairs, as is wont to do in Judaic thought, the point is the children of Abraham, et al.

The beginning of the Gentiles is mentioned in Chapter 10, verse 5 as well and the whole point of mentioning the tongues comes from that distinction, if none are to be without significance in scripture. So the aside to the tower is about other nations in Moses' mind from a Jewish perspective, not of his own people.

Which is also interesting. LOL

The aside is apparent. The story of the Tower of Babel.

By the time Moses wrote these books, He was looking backwards. They, the Jews, the children of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, were already bound by laws that commanded the children to make no altar to God of hewn stoones as a memorial, but stacked, whole stones, as found naturally.

Of course that is pertinent.

And of course, they, the children of Abraham, knew of bricks prior to Moses bringing them out of Egypt.


SInce the story is an aside, and tongues are expressed literally as implements and the figurative nature of the passage is not present, then it is plausible to give the text the benefit of the doubt as to whose speech was divided.

It appears that Moses is alluding to the speech of the Gentile nations being divided, and definitely avoiding any involvement in thaat occurance by the Jewish people.

This suggests that Hebrew is the first language.

This suggests that Hebrew is the pure language.

This also sounds racist.

Care to take a stab at that one?

excuses and asides are seeming;ly more important here than seeking to find God in all of the roadsigns preserved. LOL


Have fun.

I know I did. LOL

would anyone i would respond to like to answer the post above the one above this one? ^^^^^^^^

God already spoke to me through the words of Davidben, Jeanniebean, Smiless, and Splendidlife.

And through broccoli and Daisy Fleabane.

I'm satisfied and saved!

But I refuse to comment on what I've been saved from.

That's between me and my cat.

tribo.......it seems no present data ever spoken show that man is not born with the holy spirit......it was said that god was just and fair, and seen men as equal, and how can one be given the holy spirit in the womb as john the baptist was said to have, and it not be given the rest? could it not be possible that it just comes in measures, as what more can a holy spirit be but the simple essence of the word, a spirit that make one look and say if this be holy or not holy, lol.....

would this not be the same as to say what is evil or good?

would this not be the same as to sat what is of god or not of god?

what more does this then a holy spirit?

does not even a child look and say, "hey daddy, look at the man with the long hair and an ear ring like a pirate? he looks like a girl daddy........

now a daddy with a holy spirit, raised to see as such, with with pride and righteoussness, that this man is a girlie man, maybe a sinner, and probably a crimminal, a gang banger perhaps, needs to know god.....

now seems like a spirit of god, would say, each human is different, all unique, all having a destiny and path, and in africa, many don't even wear cloths son, so does this make them bad?

now the holy spirit in the young son is broken, with wisdom, and understanding, and taught not to judge, not by being told not to judge, but rather what would make the child see the WISDOM in themself, as to create a understanding, non judging, non bigoted person, and the more commandments make for the more confusion, and no believe in oneself, and if no belief is had in ones own perception, then how the hell can one believe in others perceptions, lol..............

it seems that even jesus only looked thru a holy spirit when meeting a holy spirit, and as such condemed the professed holy ones of text, but rather when meeting ones that did not profess, seen thru the spirit of god, as TWO distict perceptions, both being in each human born.......

could this not also be as cause and effect?

action reaction? for every action there is a reaction in all the universe.........

to try to give a good one for the sake of being good STOP true cause and effect, or the two spirits froim working as a pair, and in hand.......as the heart and mind as ONE.......

seems also that this would make for the two tress in the garden, as then would not the tree of good and evil be the holy spirit tree, seeing thru good and evil, which ones that looked thru that tree or spirit were called as devils, which bring emtional death as seperated from god, which these felt later for sure, as this did create a perceived non loving spirit, which lead to death, and then the other tree, the tree of life, of emotional life, the heart, or god, also called the spirit of god......

it was described as for christ, as recieving a full measure of the holy spirit, and what of the many, many, many times that another spirit is mentioned, as the spirit of god, clearly written in a different way?

and did it not say that many times that being alive as mortal was as being dead, by saying that anything that died was not dead, as lazurus was pronounced to not be dead, but rather sleeping, and jesus was not as dead after dying a physical death, but said to be risen, so this would seem to imlpy that it is more alive to be as physically or mortal dead, and if so, then each that is born is as dead to god, not hearing much from god at first that is already within, as also being one would feel while here as dead "compared" to actually what it feels like when passed on, as heaven was said to be BETTER than here, and each near death exsperience ever spoken of by any that dies for a time and was recessetated, DID NOT WANT TO COME BACK INTO A BODY THAT WAS FELT AND SEEN AS OLD AND ROTTING AND DEAD.......

this would make what was said of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil the act of being born PHYSICALLY, living a mortal life, which does it not bring both emotional and physical death, and the day meanig the day when BORN......

seems this would make both theories mentioned argued BOTH true, combining the both sides of the coin of perspective.......

just ideas my friend

interesting DB, but it actualy says in luke that elizebeth was filled with the holy spirit when mary approached her, if she had been born with it there would be no need for her to be filled again.nor - unlike mary was she carrying gods son/jesus/mangod/ man supposedly gave god a spirit when he breathed life into him at creation, but the holy spirit it was gave him the ability to communicate with god directly face to face, he was sinless/blameless - after the fall he was just soulish with the man spirit/energy. but i'm only talking from a christian point of view - who knows hahahaha

tribo......the text say that "when mary approached elizabeth she was filled with the holy ghost"

ok.....the perception of this text could be taken many ways, not just ONE......

it is a fact she is filled, and mary is approching her......this in no way is to say that mary approaching was the act that filled her, and this in no way says she was not already filled, nor does it say that all others are not filled as well, and even lends more to god being JUST AND FAIR, so who then can be given unto UNEQUALLY?

this also does not say that there are not two spirits as mentioned all thru text......

it does not matter at all as for doctrine sake, but when something is worshipped as the voice of god, as a holy spirit is so professed to be, and this be already active, since childbirth in all, then this certainally would tend to persuade one was lacking, insteatd of showing how god is already within, and if it was said the kingdom of heaven was within, then how can it be that good as god come from the outside somewhere, as to be filled can easily mean it was from within, and grew, along side another spirit, the sprit of god alike, both growing up together, so both coming to a fullness, and when the two have become completed, creating all wisdom within any one being, the spirit of god gobble up the holy spirit and it be disolved, not seeing any more one man as holy and another as not holy.........

did not moses staff turn to a snake, and EAT the snake of the pharoahs men, moses representing god and pharoah satan, but indeed it was said that god hardend pharoahs heart, so it was god that made pharoah say NO.........then how is pharoah to blame, as who can resist the will of god as it was spoken?

did not god tell peter to kill and eat, and not to see as holy and unholy any longer, as was not it custom to not eat such things previously?

how could god tell to do different now?

is he changing his mind, or is god just the truth in each, answering back the half-truth of all the mind say as a holy spirit, as the law, and it was written in text as two sides of a coin, as the tail side the serpent, and the head side as god.........so when peter heard and wrote, he was simply stating first what his MIND told him, a holy spirit, and then what his HEART told him, the spirit of god.........

ideas, ideas, ideas, lol.........

as you wish my freind -

tribo............i wish for nothing.......

oh, yes i do, i wish most for the percieved bad thoughts of your opinions, the raw truth, as most what is seen as negative is held back, which make these waht as unlock the truth, as what is man MOST afraid of, but his own thoughts that are perceievd to be as not good ones, lol......

so THESE would seem to be the ones SELDOM looked into, therefore hiding the true essence of what is more in each being, as who thbat believe in text as some do would want to offend, and this hold back the gates of wisdom that flow like a river to cure any unrest and bring peace......

you must have some ideas, lol........

your ideas would be the most wish, and no words of mine are better or more needed then yours or any others, lol......

anytime you see fit tribo........peace

Quikstop, you are behaving in a terrible manner. Shame on you! Show some decorum for goodness sake! Just awful.

Oh my. So there is absolutely no reason in your not so humble opinion that we should ever seek to gain a better understanding of a topic, discuss a hypothesis, point out a potential error in logic, nor share any personal insight we may have? This does nothing for the spirit of men according to you?

I don’t think of it in those terms. I never will. What about the spirit of all? What of humanity? Should it have no voice? Should it simply take everything at face value and be fearful of questioning preordained doctrine? Should we reinvent language and insist that the bible conform to our personal desires/beliefs as we see fit? If you choose to negate my views, wouldn’t I have absolute authority to question your own?

You do not know me, or I you. You have no right to imply you have any understanding of what my life experience entails. You do not know what pain I have endured, or the joys. You, my friend, have made sure you have jumped from your own aircraft with a closed parachute. I just hope you wake up before you splatter. Good luck with that.

WOW! Just pointing out how mean spirited you are. Just a reminder that when you want to point fingers you got some pointing back at you. LOL

Just shameful your behavior....