so you stand by your comment that your god cannot doubt?

I hate to sound like a 2 year old but this is a valid question in fact. You hear it often. If god, like all you Christians claim, is omnipotent, why would he create this document that’s so full of holes and open to so many loose interpretations and causes so much arguing and heated debate? Wouldn’t he just stream line it so we all get it telepathically and it all makes perfect sense to every man, woman and child? Dogs and cats even? You know how picky cats can be? I mean it’s far too vague for thinking people to accept with a straight face...

The various interpretations are all man made and have nothing to do with God. The "holes" are there so as to prevent concluding that God exists from being the only logical conclusion. If the Bible presented an air-tight case for God, then people wouldn't have much choice but to believe, would they? God wants us to believe through faith, if we had the Bible beamed into our mind telepathically, then we should believe because we knew that God existed.

You shouldn't insult the people you are debating with, but I will ignore it. It's so common to hear that those who believe in the Bible aren't "thinking people", that maybe it doesn't seem to be an insult anymore. Except to the people at whom the insult is directed, of course.

That goes without saying. I think the position that an omniscient God cannot doubt is an unassailably strong position, it would be a contradiction of terms for an omniscient God to experience doubt.

so then god gave man the ability to do something he is incapable of himself?

Man is only capable of doubt because we lack God's strength. We aren't omniscient, we aren't omnipotent. The emotion of doubt springs from those two traits of our condition.

EDIT:

It seems that you wish to redefine "omnipotent" to mean capable of anything, which isn't how religion defines "omnipotent". The fact that God cannot doubt is not a limitation of God's omnipotence. God's omnipotence is limited only by contradiction, it would be contradictory for an omnipotent / omniscient God to experience fear or doubt.

Doubt would be a negative aspect as it is contrary to confidence which is the positive side to that.

I believe that all is one, and that One is the prime source you call God. This being so, it stands to reason that God can experience doubt through Its (his) children as they doubt and as It (he) lives and has Its life in them.

I am saying that God can experience all negative things through Its own conscious creature manifestations but does not have to own these traits.

JB

Once again, you are mixing your beliefs into Christianity to find a contradiction.

God, as defined and described in the Bible, does not live through his creations. Therefore, no contradiction.

I apologize for getting off your topic Spider, but I was really talking to Tribo, not to the topic.

I can only speak the truth as I know it to be, and I believe that God lives in me and through me and through all of his manifestations.

I don't mix my beliefs with Christianity.

My beliefs are my beliefs. I see some things in Christianity that I interpret in relation to parts of my belief because I consider all information, even the Bible, as being valid at least in a small part.

If I did not, I would not even bother to talk to a Christian about beliefs.

JB

However if one hypothesis' that Reincarnation is a valid explination for our existance on this earth - why life in a situation that is - for a lack of a better word - unpleasant. I would say that - even by an extremely conservative estimation - that 25 per cent of the population of America alone - lives in abject poverty. Given reincarnation as a viable truth - why aren't these people commiting suicide. Why would children with down syndrome be allowed to live - surely a better reincarnated life await them. It is easy to think of reincarnation as a viable truth when one lives a normal, secure life with a job, a home, good health... It starts to loose it's validity when those who have deformities, those incarcerated, or those in abject poverty enter the equation.

Well - if you are going to consider that Jesus even existed - it wouldn't make sense to say the account of his life is valid - and his ministry, but the documentation about his death can be hypothesised about, since that was documented as well.

And in a court of law - the roman guards assigned to the tomb would be present to testify - so that hypothesis goes out the window.

You keep saying you find these contradictions - could you refresh the memory of those who aren't aware of them - and list them.

However - a highly unlikely one. You certainly can't equate soldiers in war time with the Apostles and believers of the first century. Spider's question is "Why would they invent this story - and then die to maintain it?" Where's the gain in this? soldiers - on the other hand, have no stake in "falsely going to war" and do not chose to die, just to maintain the war. This is a very poor analogy. But you knew that.

I'm not trying to redefine omnipotent spider - it either means "all" powerful - or it doesn't! Omniscient either means "all" knowing or it doesn't. "omni = all" that is it's meaning. if Your religion want it to mean less than that, then tell every other source of definition available to include your meaning into it.

What Jeannie has said here make absolute perfect sense.

Spider's arguments make absolutely no sense at all if you even stop and think about them for a mere brief second.

Jeannie is suggesting that God is smart enough to build into the universe an autopilot system of justice that requires no baby-sitting.

Spider is trying to claim that it makes more sense to believe that an omnipotent being is keeping track of each individual person and passing personal judgments upon they every action.

Which makes more sense?

Jeannie is actually giving God credit for being smarter.

And I'm in total agreement her assessment. A God who is smart enough to build 'judgments' into the very fabric of life so that they are automatically implemented without any need to baby-sit them would be a far superior God to one that is hanging around trying to pass judgments on every single little action of every single person who ever lived.

That picture is extremely illogical and nonsensical.

So if we're going to apply logic and reason, then karma clearly wins out over a godhead who judges everyone individually on a personal basis. That idea is totally unreasonable.

I submit that Spider's arguments on this matter are totally unreasonable and illogical. He's not arguing reason or logic. He's just desperately trying to reach for the most absurdly unreasonable possibilities in the hopes of making the stories seem to be even remotely plausible. It could be made to work if we are willing to believe that God is totally illogical and unreasonable.

But why should we want to believe that? God is supposed to be all-wise, not all-absurd.

To catch up - it was determined that Krimsa did not do an exegesis on the subject - and was formulating an idea about the matter of "unclean" from the portion of Leviticus that she had read.

At least that is the perception from her own testimony. The idea that unclean was a spiritual reference (which came from who knows where) was brought in from another part of scripture that did not relate to the passage.

But - hey, believe whatever you want. Cain killed Abel - judaism is a murderous religion.
Everyone has to kill there brother. The bible says so.

Eljay on reincarnation:



So is it your opinion that poverty is a good reason to commit suicide? This question begs an answer in line with my world view, as I accept reincarnation as a fact.

It is my belief that individual souls who incarnate into the earth game come here by choice to experience all manner of things; to include pleasure and pain, wealth and poverty, life and death. It is the adventure vacation of the spheres.
It is the best game in the galaxy! Eternal spirits love games, they live and thrive for games and adventure.

Spaces are limited, not everyone gets in. Very few are brave enough to incarnate as human simultaneously because they have to suspend the knowledge of who they are and their other lives in order to live one life at a time.

They retain all memories of all lives here upon return to their higher true self.

Now if what you think is the case I guess I'll just go shoot myself, because in comparison to most Americans, I am poverty level. Now if I lived in a third world country or ran naked in the jungle, I probably wouldn't know what I was missing and I would probably love my life just the same.



There is a world where everyone lives secure normal lives with no care in the world. I have seen it. It is like heaven. But there is no adventure there. Eventually souls crave adventure and that is where they go as they continue their journey through all the worlds of the Prime source.

JB

Actually David - there shouldn't be a meaning without having considered what you present.

I'm not following this logic. One has nothing to do with the other.

He was happy with the cretion, he was unhappy with how the creation behaved. These are two differnt events. Do you see this?