No to interupt Abra sorry but Lilith was brought up yesterday evening. Here ya go. She is considered to be the first wife of Adam.

This article is about the demoness Lilith. For other uses, see Lilith (disambiguation).

Lilith (1892), by John Collier.Lilith (Hebrew לילית) is a mythological female Mesopotamian storm demon associated with wind and was thought to be a bearer of disease, illness, and death. The figure of Lilith first appeared in a class of wind and storm demons or spirits as Lilitu, in Sumer, circa 4000 BC. Many scholars place the origin of the phonetic name "Lilith" at somewhere around 700 BC despite post-dating even the time of Moses.[1] Lilith appears as a night demon in Jewish lore and as a screech owl in the King James version of the Bible.

There is plenty more on her of course, just type her in.

It would only be a contradiction if I believe that Jesus actually wrote those words.

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that words that are written in the Gospels were ever spoken by Jesus.

In fact, I'm totally convinced that they are demagogurey.

These are the the things that you take for granted. You take it for granted that everything you read in the Bible it the word of God.

I don't. I believe that it was purposeful demagogurey.

So that's why it's not a contradiction for me in the slighest way.

You can't get away from viewing the Bible as being the "Gospel Truth".

I see it as a purposefully manipulated dogma used to control people.

There are even theories that there was no man named Jesus at all!!!

There are theories that suggest that there were a LOT of rabbis being crucified during that time, and the story of Jesus was made up using these many tales as a basis.

I'm not saying that's the way it happened. But I'm certainly saying that it's possible.

The bottom line is that I don't blieve in blood sacrifices to pay for sins in the first place. I believe that was an ancient superstition that culminated in the story of God sending a sacrificial lamb as the ultimate blood sacrifice.

I don't buy into that story at all. Period.

I don't believe that the creator of this universe is interested in blood apeasements.

And there are a myriad of other reasons why I think the story is totally outrageous.

But I still believe in out spiritual essence.

I don't need to believe in ancient mythologies to believe that we are spiritual beings.

Sins must be punished, otherwise, God is not righteous, so Jesus took the punishment for us. You are grabbing a literal meaning of "pay" and running with it. Sins don't have price tags on them, there is no cash register being stuffed with "payments for sin". But strangely enough, you are right about one thing "Once sin has been committed it cannot be undone". Someone has to be punished for those sins, because they cannot be expunged without punishment. How wonderful is God that he would take the punishment in our place?



God is not at war with Satan. The war was fought between the angels and the demons. The reason for this was to test the angels. If they had chosen to not fight their former brothers, then they wouldn't have been worthy to remain in heaven. The Bible never states that God is at war with the devil. You have to tell me, where did you get that idea? It's hard to believe that you studied the Bible for 40 years, when you post "contradictions" which have their origin in pop culture instead of the scriptures.

paul - our battle is not with flesh and blood - but with pricipalities and powers in the heavens

a battle between heavenly spiritual beings - demons? angels? if not then what??

http://bible.cc/ephesians/6-12.htm


The war isn't between God and Satan. They aren't diametrically opposed as pop culture would have you believe. God cannot be opposed. God's omniscience and omnipotence means that God can use those who choose to try to oppose God to serve God's purpose.

Angels struggle with demons. The demons are led by Satan, while the angel's actions are directed by prayers. Those prayers which God deems to answer are answered by angels. This is why Christians believe in praying for spiritual warfare. The more prayers for a worthy cause, the more angels who will be assigned that task. Satan will assign demons to oppose angels. Thus warfare. But God isn't directly involved. God's power makes it impossible for God to have a rival or enemy or to fail at any goal which God focuses his will upon.

there is an obscure notion that man assimilates the nature and characteristics of the fallen angels more readily (apparently) than that of a just and holy ,sovereignly distinct, Creator.

That a fallen angel would wage a futile 'war' is absurd. But as absurd as it is to contemplate, it is also absurd to assume that success is possible in such a rebellion.

At least for the broken and maimed and lost and simple and less than fortunate, there is a hope and a calling that renders peace and comfort.

Scarcely a worldly fruitful man have I encountered in my travels as so led by the Spirit to entertain and aid and abbet in their continuances seeking shelter from that which impoverishes them and threatens their right mind and abundance of lack of critical thinking skills owed and due their station in life by virtue of birth and insufficient neurological maturity.

But then, control issues do seem to be the perview of the advantaged and a labeling mechanism designed to affront culpability for assisting and prepetuating myths of wholeness upon those underprivileged sots so excused from the table of privilege and its merits.

If it is about anything, it is about control.

Some are controoling others, and some delight in being controllers.

Some even have come to expect that embracing being controlled is akin to being at peace, but control is an environmental imposition, wouldn't you say?

And wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that ,often times, it is control that is at the heart of every belief?

If life has its abundance fruit of goodness to be gleaned, then the gleanings of self control and surrender also accompany the struggle to find the meaning of that which is incumbent upon us all.

It is either inherent or obscured from coherence.

My preference would be that it were inherently true that we all are equally equipped to cope with our environment, but sadly that is wishful thinking and irrelevantly imaginary.

It only requires one to call it a war, and a war it is.

Peace being waged, excuses the war.

Is that not also a warfare?

Is it not acceptable to reason that victims may become prepetrators out of a need of self preservation?

If the fallen angels be the victims, then a sovereign Creator is the enemy.

If the sovereign Creator is the victim, then are not his also victims as well?

If the victims are not the warriors, then it holds that the fight is not wageable with any victory due the effort.

If the victims war amongst themselves and misappropriate the attribution of such a war, then there is no war, only delusion.

If delusion is the prepetrator, then the illusion itself has an author.

Who authored what is constantly on the table without resolution in this world and the same holds true in these threads.

If it weren't so seriously disturbing to all upright men everywhere, I would be of a mind to laugh off the contentiousness accompanying the shifting and labeling of blame for any war, be it one of words or one of spilled blood and destruction of liberties and life and limb and consciousness.

But to laugh it off or categorically mock such a war as contrived and imaginary is an elitist and aloof position to harbor, seeing that not all can muster the good fortune to be sequestred from its sting through the exercise of a strong and tenacious personal will.


I see a common enemy that is chameleon like in its disguises and very artful and cunning in its employ of distraction.

To that end, I find one particular passage in the New Testament to be rather poignant in its suggestion that the wisest of men is but vanity and foolishness to God.

It smacks of a mockery of control being pointed at the ones supposing to have advantage to their persons for the tenacity and temerity of theoir personal willpower and self control that blocks any invasion of thought or ins[piration not suitably coherent to a well disguised broken heart of stone. Such is dust as I see it.

just rambling through.....

good day all.

I’m not totally buying all this "rising from the dead" so quickly. They placed him in a cave correct? Amongst how many caves exactly? They were mourning, presumably indulging in spirits all night, paranoid about the Romans and what they were going to do at that point.

Is it possible, just throwing this out there, that they went back to the wrong burial site?

Doesn't wash because of all the sacrificial lambs of the old testament. Clearly the sinners weren't being punished. The lambs would be taking their punishment for them. But that is totally nonsensical to me.

It's a nonsensical mythology IHMO. It's based on the very same superstitions of all the other mythologies of the region. It's no less silly nor anymore credible than Greek Mythology.

The bottom line for me Spider, is that the biblical story is simply too stupid to be a story about the creator of the universe.

Please don't take that as an insult to your belief. I'm just giving you my honest feelings.

I don't believe that the creator of this universe would be that ignorant. Even the bible claims that God is all-wise. Well, personally don't believe that an all-wise God be requiring blood sacrifices or have any dealing with anything like that at all. The whole superstition surrounding blood is clearly a manmade superstition as far as I'm concerned. The idea that an all-wise supreme being would go there is just utterly nonsensical to me.

Man's superstition? Yes.

The plan of an all-wise supreme being? No.

Moreover, the Biblical God is supposed to be a fatherly image? Well, clearly you must think he had good parenting skills. Personally I'd have him up on charges of child abuse. IMHO the Old Testament is the world's best example of how NOT to raise your children. The God of the Old Testament is the worse example of parenting I can possible imagine. Yet I'm to believe that it's all-wise?

I don't think so.

You can keep the religion Spider. I want no parts of it.

If the creator of our universe is that sick, I'd truly rather not even know about it until I have no other choice. As far as I'm concerned it would be a demon in disguise.

What I think is much more likely is that the stories were entirely made up several years later.

The gospels weren't written right away. In fact, many scholars believe that they may not have been written for as many as two or three decades after the actual crucifixion.

Plenty of time to make things up. And humans are well-known for that!

One cave one stone....he was wrapped in it...He was guarded by Roman soldiers.....in the morning they removed the heavy stone in front and the shrouding clothes were there and no Jesus. And then Jesus appeared to Mary and to a few of the disciples.....If you would like the scripture I would be then happy to get for you.


No the wrong burial site

I didn't say you had to believe it abra.....but please don't discount it....or say imo the stories were made up.

That’s possible also. To be fair though, did they not have that burial shroud? Was that from him? Its not that I am saying Jesus was not a remarkable man in his own right. (Notice I say man) I simply doubt that he rose from the dead and flew away. Was he just in that cave overnight and gone the next day? What was that imprint on cloth covering his face? Was it just due to the blood from the beatings? What about forensic testing now? Possible?

Obviously its very important for you to believe this story.

I just don't see the need to believe it in myself.

I don't believe that any sane God would possibly expect people to believe a 2000 year-old story that is so outrageously incredulous and utterly absurd. In fact, to truly believe it they must also believe in the Old testament as well which pushes the dates it back even futher and the absurdites to even more profound level of outrageousness.

The whole idea that God would even be like this is far less attractive to me than pure atheism. Seriously, I'd rather believe there is no God at all than for the biblical God to turn out to be the truth of reality.

Fortunately there are other possiblties.

Yes it was from him.....and you can believe anything you want also.....you say man....I say the annointed, the Almighty, The Healer, etc. He didn't rise from the dead and fly away....lol he walked among his disciples.....Does anyone even phanthom the beating he took......and I know what you are talking about but not enough about it to make a comment on it. I think that they don't want to touch it at all because of the delicate nature of the fabric.

Jesus lived with the apostles and taught them and the earliest Christians for 40 days following his resurrection. You can't explain away Jesus' resurrection as "they went to the wrong tomb". Tombs were expensive, they weren't given away.

There is no logic to these objections. Those people still died. There is no proof that many were saved, many of them surely weren't saved.

As for the sacrifices, they served three functions. 1) Reminders that God would offer a sacrifice. 2) Signs of faith, that God would supply a sacrifice. 3) Proof of obeidience to God.

Sacrifices in and of themselves did nothing.

1 Samuel 15:22

whatever floats your boat abra.

spider im seeing when looking that "pricipalities and powers are angels - if this is incorrect then what are they?

I strongly encourage you to read my entire post, I think I did a good job of explaining it the first time around and could only quote myself to answer your question.

how do you get this:

Angels struggle with demons. The demons are led by Satan, while the angel's actions are directed by prayers. Those prayers which God deems to answer are answered by angels. This is why Christians believe in praying for spiritual warfare. The more prayers for a worthy cause, the more angels who will be assigned that task. Satan will assign demons to oppose angels. Thus warfare. But God isn't directly involved. God's power makes it impossible for God to have a rival or enemy or to fail at any goal which God focuses his will upon.


out of whats stated in Ephesians? - 1 verse turns into a paragraph? explain it biblically - not "extra" biblically, spider - show me in scripture where your paragraph states what you have written please.