hi Eljay, i'm getting the point your making now. but this is what i was responding to:

"Abra;

When you start claiming what the bible says -

""could you give a reference so we can [[investigate]] these "assertions" for ourselves"". Or would you like us to clump you into the group of those televangelists you so detest.

you must admit it sounds like you are saying you'll have to find and read of what abrs's stating in order to understand or refute it if it's wrong?

otherwise if you knew where it was at, why not just say "if your talking about leviticus 24 10- blah blah blah, what is "really being stated there is" blah -----????????????????????????

do you see now why i commented as such?????

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths. -- Proverbs 3:5-6

Yeh I saw this post in another thread. Is that spamming?

Yep, what we have here is a clear-cut case of Bible spamming.

Actually spamming is against the rules, but when was the last time you saw a Christian who gives a damn about rules.

"If you had one hundred sheep, and one of them strayed away and was lost in the wilderness, wouldn't you leave the ninety-nine others to go and search for the lost one until you found it? And then you would joyfully carry it home on your shoulders. When you arrived, you would call together your friends and neighbors to rejoice with you because your lost sheep was found. In the same way, heaven will be happier over one lost sinner who returns to God than over ninety-nine others who are righteous and haven't strayed away! (NLT, Luke 15:3-7)

Tribo..

yes you are right that he came to fullfill not do away..

This is showing what the law is and that it can be done.

When he said even if you look upon a woman he was speaking of the hearts desires. Any action starts in the brain 1st.

No thought no action. The law was amplified not done away as the christians believe because this is what they have been told.

I agree if they go outside of this focalization stream of mentality then they start to be ignored ostrasized if they mention the law.

This is the same judgement the pharasees had on the people disagree with us and you are disagreeing with Yahweh.

That is what Yahshua said was the commandment that was against us. Thier rules.

Yahshua got told about the washing of hands. This was not in the law this was Rabbinical Law..man made.

The christians have been told so long that the law done away is Yahweh's law they believe it has to be true and are brainwashed that anyone who says differently has a decietfull spirit.

This is the same reason Yahshua went to the Tax collector and the sinner to eat and be with.

The rightous would not accept him. They were the only ones who knew Yahweh's will and they refused to listen ..well at least most did.

The law is written on the heart and mind we want to do it willingly. yahweh does not want anyone to come that is not wanting to.

He is not the Father who holds a strong hand.

He will disipline though.

We are the Temple of Yahweh. Quite a gift Yahweh gives to those who want to obey and do not refuse him.

The Temple had the fire of Yahweh's law in it. The cloven Tongues of the Spirit.

But demons in High Places have come as Angels of light claiming the Law of Yahweh is against us.

This is the same as the Angels who Satan knew had charge over Yahshua and a bone of his could not be broken.

Satan tried to twist this before Yahshua ever started his ministry.. But he said do Not Tempt Yahweh.

That is what has been happening for a very long time They Tempt Yahweh. Saying His laws were against them. That is Satan himself Helel Talking.


We are the 3rd Temple that is why a physical Temple in Jerusalem will not be Built.

How much more glory could it have than one built without hands?

What a lie. Everyones looking for a Temple when it is right in front of thier faces.

If anyone wants to say Yahweh made a mistake in giving his laws. The they agree with Satan Yahweh can be over powered and his Kingdom taken from him. Because he makes mistakes.

A christian can not fathom these words for they deny what they have learned all thier life.

They can not be wrong.

The meek inherit the earth. You must 1st realize the Spirit is who teaches you not man and then Knowledge will increase for them.

Instead they are to proud to believe this and refuse to prove it for themselves.

They are scared. Yahweh understands this also. This is why Yahshua and Yahweh both speak so much about the Lying Priest.

Peter says we are a Kingdom of Priests.. We uphold and protect Yahweh's words.

Tribo they may believe that when Yahshua said he Fullfilled is done away.

But the next couple of chapters point out it is in force spiritually more than ever.

Get rid of the decietful spirit and the action is never thought of. Shalom Tribo..May Yahweh Increase Your Knowledge and Zeal..Miles

Truly with all due respect to you personnally,

WHY ELJAY?!?!?!?

... why should Abra 'quote' from the book?

We've been down this road so many times before.

Abra has, in the past, referred to already quoted passages by others, only to find you, or some other person whom has a strong belief in the bible, 'defend' blindly, and to no end, any form of questioning, or disagreeing with the book.

There is no point in asking Abra to post a quote from a book he rejects.

There is no debate, nor intelligent exchange to be had.

You and others will defend the book to death without ever addressing the contradictions and incongruities pointed out.

... and Abra and others (IMO) will keep rejecting it as a fraud and abject 'man made invention', which, in their perspective, is the source of a huge amount of 'evil' in human history.

You can legitimately keep claiming that it is YOUR BELIEF that the bible is the word of YOUR god, and that it is what YOU BELIEVE to be true for yourself!!!

This, said in those exact words, would be a true and accurate statement, which no one, including myself and Abra (I trust), would disagree with.

That belief of yours, would unlikely ever be TRUE FOR OURSELVES, but we would not disagree that it might be true for you Eljay, without ever being based on fact, evidence or proof.

Thus, the fault lies in falsely claiming that it is a FACT, that the bible IS the word of god, and THEREFORE is the ONLY TRUTH. A belief will never be THE TRUTH IN FACT!!! A belief will always be based on 'something' which is NOT SUPPORTED BY FACT, evidence or proof, and something which is made to represent for someone, what is ‘made’ to be true, that one CAN’T SUBSTANTIATE by fact, evidence or proof.

Very different and distinct from THE TRUTH.

As I see it, the only purpose of arguing (not debating) bible quotes between someone whom believes in the bible and someone whom doesn't, is to lure people into a proselytizing 'pissing contest'. Doing an empty show for the gallery, hoping to convert a few souls, and primarily giving the apologetic soldiers a feeling of good conscience for having fought the delusional battle of ‘DEFENDING THEIR GOD’.

There never is a genuine and honest connection between the two 'debaters'. Those whom agree with the apologetic soldiers, will keep agreeing with the apologetic soldiers, and those whom don't, won't.

Why is that???

It is my conviction that insisting on arguing faith and beliefs from a perspective of fact, evidence and proof, is an out-of-integrity premise.

Faith is based on NO FACT, NO EVIDENCE AND NO PROOF!!! And a man written book, whatever man’s claim that this book is presumably sacred according to them, changes nothing about the factual definition of faith (no fact, no evidence, no proof).

I have beliefs, and I fully assume the responsibility that people might, or might not subscribe and share those beliefs or convictions of mine. They are not for sale, nor are they to be 'promoted' like a vulgar commercial product. That's the end of that debate to me.

To keep denying this simple reality makes the whole religious exchange ‘out of integrity’, and leads to the inevitable stalemates and dead-end correlates, which out-of-integrity premises produce.

‘OUT-INTEGRITY’: not whole, not complete, not integrated, therefore NOT TRUE!!!

I repeat that I am not making this observation about you personally Eljay. I am making this observation about the underlying tone of the debates on these threads, with the intent of finding a way through the 'head/dead-lock'!!!


Regards to you Eljay.


p.s.: Answer to host.
SIN: going AGAINST what I BELIEVE to be TRUE FOR MYSELF.
What I believe to be true for myself, is based upon a profound respect for the legacy of ethical and moral principles and wisdom from the ages, and from a multitude of sources. It includes some christian (Christ like) principles, but certainly is not limited to that alone. THAT, WOULD BE A SIN TO ME!)

thnx miles,

What a lie. Everyones looking for a Temple when it is right in front of thier faces

yep could not agree more - thank darby and scofield and the others for that who teach - futurist views.

shalom my friend

That's the real bottom line right there. This is why any book that is claimed to be "The word of God" is so dangerous.

It can only serve to pit man against man which is precisely what it does.

What good can come of that?

It just causes political unrest and name calling. Just look at what it's done to the Middle East.

These ancient myths do nothing but cause war mongering.

Religion is the cause of the majority of war

Then they will have a big party and slaughter the sheep and have it for dinner.

JB

does sphaghetti and sheep go together well??

I find it distasteful to be compared to livestock as in the "Shepard and his sheep"

What are livestock really? They are a product used to eat or shear wool from. Does the Shepard really love his sheep? I don't think so. They represent wealth and property.

JB

I already feel hungry and yes they will be a good , tasty meal if cooked properly .
Bon appetit .

but Jeannie you know we are livestock for a alien species!!

She is just waiting for the population to reach 10 billion!

sin......to not see oneself as ignorant and wise at all times while having human breath, therefore never allowing ONESELF to learn more each time they see from the heart un-wisdom within oneself..........

That's true. When a religious doctrine compares human beings as being sheep and God as being the Shepard that can be pretty weird.

The whole idea that someone is a 'sinner' simply because they don't believe in a particular religion is an absolute farce in the first place.

Why would God consider it to be a sin for not believing in a particular story that claims that he asked people to stone their children and neighbors to death.

What kind of a Shepard would be asking his sheep to stone each other to death? These doctines that use methphors like this only serve to send extremely mixed messages.

I don't believe that the creator of this universe would be the slightest bit upset with anyone who denounces the biblical stories as not having anything to do with him.

What higher compliment could you pay God than to tell him that you don't believe he's that crude? That would hardly be a sin.

The analogy that we are sheep points to the theory that we, humans are indeed, like livestock to the advanced race of alien beings who may have genetically engineered humans in the beginning. They did this for their own purposes. We are like a product to them. Slaves, servants, food, pets, etc. These beings are not gods, but some enjoyed being worshiped as gods.

JB

is not this to say ALL WILL STRAY FROM THE TRUTH IN THEIR OWN HEARTS FOR A TIME, TO GATHER WISDOM, SO WHO IS A SHEEP, AND WHO IS NOT.......there is no defintion of what a sheep be or not be, that does not break every commandemnt of other scriptures......

perception lead all and is as dictated by pre-destiny, or subconscious, just as your good/bad book says..........if perception did not, then each human would HAVE TO HAVE A CHOICE OF WHAT IS VIEWED BEFORE VIEWING, and this is not so for ANY HUMAN.........

this quote NEVER states that the 99 others will not come home as well, but rather only a condeming mind will perceive that there are SOME BETTER, and some worse, and HEAR this meaning within the saying.............peace

if one know god, then they know truth, which is ALL god be, and if truth be known, there are no words one needs to borrow from another........

indeed, indeed, indeed..........seems like all wars......

the question then begging to be asked is WHAT IS RELIGION...