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| Topic: Osama Bin Laden's hate? Why? | |
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I suppose Fanta is smarter than Steve Coll and knows much more than he does as well. He must have the inside men and resources to get such information.  This from sailor. Doctorer of facts and figures, King of the NeoCons who says hes a Democrat! Boy Genius and master of momma and Daddies basement! I have done more in one year of my life than you will in 20. I have wrote many research papers on Afghanistan and the Soviet Invasion. Hell, I was actually alive back then. Better yet, I was in the military when in all took place! I cant vouch for Steve Coll, but I do know far more on the subject than you'll ever read in the Bushy Indoctrination manual little one! A resort to a solely based personal attack. How old are you again? I based all that I said off of studies as well, mostly though DIRECT from Steve Coll. The fact you launched a solely personal attack and belittlement without providing these vast research papers that say something different than the Pulitzer Prize winning Steve Coll on the subject says alot. Old enough to be your Daddy!! Of course if I was you'd be much wiser!! Nice job of the duck and cover. Steve Coll said it right, you got caught with your pants down, so you decided to use childish face icons, belittle and personally attack someone far younger than you, and totally ignore the subject, which Coll has you seriously bested in. And, I based everything I said directly off of it. Of course you did! People just like you won him a Pulitzer, not because he knows what he's writing about! If Id have used him as a reference Id have been laughed at and failed! Instead I made A's. Ummm... not to laugh too much, but you do know that the Pulizer Prize are the annual awards given out by COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, right? I suppose NeoCon hacks with a distorion of history have taken over Columbia University? Had to use an icon, your statement is so beyond ridiculous.
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A 6'6" Saudi, hiding in that region of the world and he hasn't been "discovered" yet?! Come on! He must be hiding with the Easter Bunny! Seriously, I think he loathes the "coercion" between the American and his own Saudi "regimes" and their lifestyle as well. He's probably in Iran! Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? 
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Short Version: Osama essentially got to the holy war on US idea when it was the US that Saudi Arabia came to during the first Gulf War. When Kuwait was invaded the Saudi royal family feared that Saddam might not stop for they were pushing closer and closer to the border of Saudi Arabia through Kuwait. Osama came to Saudi Arabia offering his assistance, for the right price and approval of the Saudi royal family, to assemble his own personal army and defend them from Iraq. Saudi Arabia declined and went to the US instead. This extremely ticked him off, his ego trip, and he created vast problems following for both Saudi Arabia and the US. This is pretty much what I gathered sir, yet why would Saudia Arabia believe that Saddam Hussein's forces would want to invade or attack Saudia Arabia? Did he have a grudge with them also? As far as I understand Saddam Hussein wanted to reclaim Kuwait for in history it was a part of Iraq. He believed that that part of the country belongs to the Iraqi people. So if this is to be true why would he want to attack Saudia Arabia? Did the Saudia Arabian family monarchs truly believe Saddam would be a threat or did they listen to advisors from other countries to believe that they would be a threat? Also and I am sorry to make this so long. Why did we even get involved in the affairs of the Middle East. Where we paid to save Kuwait or do we think we are obligated to make sure every country is a democracy? If this is to be true then why don't we have forces in much more dire areas of the world where slavery, religious wars, and difference of opinions happen. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. John Yes, Saudi Arabia did see Saddam and Iraq as a threat. I could go on at length, but I do remembering reading in various books about the scuds that Iraq did fire at Saudi Arabia. A few actually killed American troops in Iraq, but most of them were to hurt Saudi Arabia. I did a search on google and finally found the evidence to support the scuds hitting Saudi Arabia. Wasn't easy. From the book, on Google's Book Site, called Desert Storm: Forgotten War. "During the war Iraq launched 88 SCUD missiles (46 against Saudi Arabia....)" - Desert Storm: A Forgotten War By Alberto Bin, Richard Hill, Archer Jones, page 101. http://books.google.com/books?id=KgD1VyCgGAYC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=46+scuds+ from+Iraq+entered+Saudi+Arabia&source=web&ots=q MuLd7QkUP&sig=HceWNE59JUlrOCMY0DRBwa1Tgvo&hl=en &sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA101,M1 Link is soooo long I had to assist in editting it or it screwed up the thread. Might be spaces when you copy and paste it so take them out or post it in line by line. They have that cited, in the footnote on page 101, you see where they got that information from. There is also personal and diplomacy, as well as historical issues between Iraq and Saudi Arabia that are complex. I'm going to end with the Scud thing, but there is alot behind animosity, I actually read awhile back that Saudi Arabia was aiding Iran in the Iran-Iraq War, and that is another reason for being a bit angry, plus the relationship they had with the US. Bahrain and Qatar were actually hit by a very few Scuds from Iraq as well, likely due to US relations as well. Thank you sir for getting out of your way to find this. I will see if it works and read up on it. Have a great day. |
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Edited by
paul40
on
Fri 07/11/08 11:51 AM
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . |
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Edited by
paul40
on
Fri 07/11/08 11:51 AM
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Fri 07/11/08 12:47 PM
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Slowhand, Please explain the first five on your list if you think its so accurate. 1. greed - makes no sense at all. The dude was born rich! 2. envy - Who is he envious about? His family is one of the most respected and powerful in all the ME! He is a Prince! This makes no sense either! 3. fear- The man, who didn't have too (see above) volunteered to go to Afghanistan and fight the Soviets. At one time even setting up a camp within sight of a major Soviet Base. His exploits as recorded by others, not him (including westerners, during battle prove he is not a coward! 4. money- I think we've covered this, but lets look at how much of his own money he spent fighting the Soviets! Again, makes no sense. 5. power- I hate repeating myself, but he could be leading a much better life sitting fat and sassy in Saudi Arabia as a potential air to the throne. After all he is a Prince! Ok, that pretty much blows 50% of your list away! I will stop there!  1. He is greedy of power. The power to influence others to promote his version of militant Islam and repress its detractors 2. He envies the West's ability to help shape policy in the middle east. 3. He fears living in a pluralistic society tolerant of all religious and non-religious views. He is afraid that it will dilute the influence of Islamic dogma and change his society. 4. He needs money to wage his sick crusade - he solicits funds from perverted donors. 5. power - He has the power over the madrassa's brainwashees - a power that corrupts. He desires more power. He attacks in a futile attempt to intimidate. Thank you for not asking about the other 5 and asking me to type the rest... |
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This is a matter that is defined from where you stand. bin laden, who deserves no respect from me so he is not capitalized, believes he is on a crusade to save "his people". From where he stands he is right for his people. His ways of doing things may appear to us as "evil" but he has his reasons.
From where we stand, he hates us and is an extreme danger to us. So we see his crusade as wrong or "evil". One people's terrorist is another people's freedom fighter. It is very true. With all of that said. Why did we not get bin laden instead of Saddam? Did bin laden have a country that sat on like one third of the world's oil? No. Did bin laden have a controlling interest in the oil? No. Enough said. He was free to live after killing 3000 Americans on their home soil because he did not have oil. |
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Slowhand, Please explain the first five on your list if you think its so accurate. 1. greed - makes no sense at all. The dude was born rich! 2. envy - Who is he envious about? His family is one of the most respected and powerful in all the ME! He is a Prince! This makes no sense either! 3. fear- The man, who didn't have too (see above) volunteered to go to Afghanistan and fight the Soviets. At one time even setting up a camp within sight of a major Soviet Base. His exploits as recorded by others, not him (including westerners, during battle prove he is not a coward! 4. money- I think we've covered this, but lets look at how much of his own money he spent fighting the Soviets! Again, makes no sense. 5. power- I hate repeating myself, but he could be leading a much better life sitting fat and sassy in Saudi Arabia as a potential air to the throne. After all he is a Prince! Ok, that pretty much blows 50% of your list away! I will stop there! 1. He is greedy of power. The power to influence others to promote his version of militant Islam and repress its detractors 2. He envies the West's ability to help shape policy in the middle east. 3. He fears living in a pluralistic society tolerant of all religious and non-religious views. He is afraid that it will dilute the influence of Islamic dogma and change his society. 4. He needs money to wage his sick crusade - he solicits funds from perverted donors. 5. power - He has the power over the madrassa's brainwashees - a power that corrupts. He desires more power. He attacks in a futile attempt to intimidate. Thank you for not asking about the other 5 and asking me to type the rest... Do you honestly believe that a sick man with dialysis machines can orchestrate 911 tragedy ?. Do really believe he is still alive after all the bombing of Afghanistan ?. Do you really believe that religion and not politics were his motive to speak against the US ?. |
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Edited by
s1owhand
on
Fri 07/11/08 01:35 PM
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i respectfully disagree with the characterization that one people's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. this represents the two parties conflict on equal footing and this is
typically not the case but certainly not in current Islamic fundamentalist conflagrations. you cannot reasonably make this symmetric equivalence. Kim Jong-Il and Saddam Hussein saw themselves as freedom fighters as they terrorized millions. They even had supporters! but they were no ones freedom fighter. their cause was/is cancerous to humanity and to freedom. you cannot equate the bombing of a schoolbus to shooting someone who is attempting to launch a rocket at you. that is why (among other things) that we have something known as killing in self defense as a valid legal defense. we attacked bin laden and overthrew the Taliban to disrupt his attempts to kill us and Afgan santuary of terrorists. we attacked hussein because he had demonstrated a willingness and capability to kill civilians in order to try to intimidate his enemies and he openly threatened the US and our allies while defiantly refusing attempts to disarm him. there was also a concern that he was continuing to pursue nuclear options...and because of the oil he had plenty of mad money. your argument that bin laden lives because of his lack of oil is naive. if bin laden were to peek out of hiding he would be taken out. he is merely hidden better and less effective hence less of a threat. bin laden like hussein is a man who gleefully cheers the slaughter of innocent civilians in the name of Islam and provides funds and support to those who do the killing. |
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Do you honestly believe that a sick man with dialysis machines can orchestrate 911 tragedy ?. Do really believe he is still alive after all the bombing of Afghanistan ?. Do you really believe that religion and not politics were his motive to speak against the US ?. 1. sure why not. although he wasn't always so frail physically. 2. who knows if he is really alive. as long as he is ineffective. 3. no - i think it was religion and politics both. plus he's a nut. |
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . Ive never heard that and cant find any proof. Do you have a link? |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 07/11/08 01:35 PM
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This is a matter that is defined from where you stand. bin laden, who deserves no respect from me so he is not capitalized, believes he is on a crusade to save "his people". From where he stands he is right for his people. His ways of doing things may appear to us as "evil" but he has his reasons. From where we stand, he hates us and is an extreme danger to us. So we see his crusade as wrong or "evil". One people's terrorist is another people's freedom fighter. It is very true. With all of that said. Why did we not get bin laden instead of Saddam? Did bin laden have a country that sat on like one third of the world's oil? No. Did bin laden have a controlling interest in the oil? No. Enough said. He was free to live after killing 3000 Americans on their home soil because he did not have oil. All good points and so true about one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter! I would still put every available resource we have to hunt him down like a dog, and stake his head out on a pole in downtown Kabul! Then I'd bring his body back to the US, so everyone could take turns pissing down his neck! Too bad GWB doesnt feel the same, or we'd have the video showing on youtube!! |
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The video would be rated R of course!
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i respectfully disagree with the characterization that one people's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. this represents the two parties conflict on equal footing and this is typically not the case but certainly not in current Islamic fundamentalist conflagrations. you cannot reasonably make this symmetric equivalence. Kim Jong-Il and Saddam Hussein saw themselves as freedom fighters as they terrorized millions. They even had supporters! but they were no ones freedom fighter. their cause was/is cancerous to humanity and to freedom. you cannot equate the bombing of a schoolbus to shooting someone who is attempting to launch a rocket at you. that is why (among other things) that we have something known as killing in self defense as a valid legal defense. we attacked bin laden and overthrew the Taliban to disrupt his attempts to kill us and Afgan santuary of terrorists. we attacked hussein because he had demonstrated a willingness and capability to kill civilians in order to try to intimidate his enemies and he openly threatened the US and our allies while defiantly refusing attempts to disarm him. there was also a concern that he was continuing to pursue nuclear options...and because of the oil he had plenty of mad money. your argument that bin laden lives because of his lack of oil is naive. if bin laden were to peek out of hiding he would be taken out. he is merely hidden better and less effective hence less of a threat. bin laden like hussein is a man who gleefully cheers the slaughter of innocent civilians in the name of Islam and provides funds and support to those who do the killing. Your opinion of course. Which you are entitled to. Others would have a differing opinion. |
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This is a matter that is defined from where you stand. bin laden, who deserves no respect from me so he is not capitalized, believes he is on a crusade to save "his people". From where he stands he is right for his people. His ways of doing things may appear to us as "evil" but he has his reasons. From where we stand, he hates us and is an extreme danger to us. So we see his crusade as wrong or "evil". One people's terrorist is another people's freedom fighter. It is very true. With all of that said. Why did we not get bin laden instead of Saddam? Did bin laden have a country that sat on like one third of the world's oil? No. Did bin laden have a controlling interest in the oil? No. Enough said. He was free to live after killing 3000 Americans on their home soil because he did not have oil. All good points and so true about one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter! I would still put every available resource we have to hunt him down like a dog, and stake his head out on a pole in downtown Kabul! Then I'd bring his body back to the US, so everyone could take turns pissing down his neck! Too bad GWB doesnt feel the same, or we'd have the video showing on youtube!! I have asked all along, where the hell is bin laden? When Bush headed us towards Iraq, I wanted to know where is bin laden. When we declared "military action" against Iraq, I wanted to know where was bin laden. To this day I want to know where is bin laden. We should have been watching him on trial and we should have determined our justice for the 3000 lifes he took but again I will say, bin laden was not sitting on any oil soooooooooooo he is not of interest to us militarily. |
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Edited by
karmafury
on
Fri 07/11/08 02:18 PM
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . ISAF contributing nations (as of 21 February 2005) NATO Nations Belgium 616 Bulgaria 37 Canada 992 Czech Republic 17 Denmark 122 Estonia 10 France 742 Germany 1816 Greece 171 Hungary 159 Iceland 20 Italy 506 Latvia 9 Lithuania 9 Luxemburg 10 Netherlands 311 Norway 313 Poland 5 Portugal 21 Romania 72 Slovakia 16 Slovenia 27 Spain 551 Turkey 825 United Kingdom 461 United States 89 ................... Partner Nations Albania 22 Austria 3 Azerbaijan 22 Croatia 45 Finland 61 former Yougoslov Republic of Macedonia (1) 20 Ireland 10 Sweden 85 Switzerland 4 .................... Non-NATO / Non-EAPC nations New Zealand 5 Where's Iran? Back to topic...... Osama Bin Laden stated back in the '70s that he would bring war to American soil. Nobody believed him back then. |
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . ISAF contributing nations (as of 21 February 2005) NATO Nations Belgium 616 Bulgaria 37 Canada 992 Czech Republic 17 Denmark 122 Estonia 10 France 742 Germany 1816 Greece 171 Hungary 159 Iceland 20 Italy 506 Latvia 9 Lithuania 9 Luxemburg 10 Netherlands 311 Norway 313 Poland 5 Portugal 21 Romania 72 Slovakia 16 Slovenia 27 Spain 551 Turkey 825 United Kingdom 461 United States 89 ................... Partner Nations Albania 22 Austria 3 Azerbaijan 22 Croatia 45 Finland 61 former Yougoslov Republic of Macedonia (1) 20 Ireland 10 Sweden 85 Switzerland 4 .................... Non-NATO / Non-EAPC nations New Zealand 5 Where's Iran? Back to topic...... Osama Bin Laden stated back in the '70s that he would bring war to American soil. Nobody believed him back then. And the part that the president sure does not want the American people to think about is, Saddam was fully capable of executing a 9/11 on us all through his reign and he never did. |
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . ISAF contributing nations (as of 21 February 2005) NATO Nations Belgium 616 Bulgaria 37 Canada 992 Czech Republic 17 Denmark 122 Estonia 10 France 742 Germany 1816 Greece 171 Hungary 159 Iceland 20 Italy 506 Latvia 9 Lithuania 9 Luxemburg 10 Netherlands 311 Norway 313 Poland 5 Portugal 21 Romania 72 Slovakia 16 Slovenia 27 Spain 551 Turkey 825 United Kingdom 461 United States 89 ................... Partner Nations Albania 22 Austria 3 Azerbaijan 22 Croatia 45 Finland 61 former Yougoslov Republic of Macedonia (1) 20 Ireland 10 Sweden 85 Switzerland 4 .................... Non-NATO / Non-EAPC nations New Zealand 5 Where's Iran? Back to topic...... Osama Bin Laden stated back in the '70s that he would bring war to American soil. Nobody believed him back then. And the part that the president sure does not want the American people to think about is, Saddam was fully capable of executing a 9/11 on us all through his reign and he never did. Why are Americans obssessed with other nations and do not solve their own problems such as health , economy ,education .....etc ?. |
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I have asked all along, where the hell is bin laden? When Bush headed us towards Iraq, I wanted to know where is bin laden. When we declared "military action" against Iraq, I wanted to know where was bin laden. To this day I want to know where is bin laden. We should have been watching him on trial and we should have determined our justice for the 3000 lifes he took but again I will say, bin laden was not sitting on any oil soooooooooooo he is not of interest to us militarily. I do not know how many times you have to be told to go to the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, hike through the mountains, up and down, in and out of every cave, and you just may find him. No one else can!! |
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Iran sent the troops and fought the Taliban and Al qaeda in Afghanistan . So this explains much on this idea . Where do you get that? It is true and 100% true as fact can be . ISAF contributing nations (as of 21 February 2005) NATO Nations Belgium 616 Bulgaria 37 Canada 992 Czech Republic 17 Denmark 122 Estonia 10 France 742 Germany 1816 Greece 171 Hungary 159 Iceland 20 Italy 506 Latvia 9 Lithuania 9 Luxemburg 10 Netherlands 311 Norway 313 Poland 5 Portugal 21 Romania 72 Slovakia 16 Slovenia 27 Spain 551 Turkey 825 United Kingdom 461 United States 89 ................... Partner Nations Albania 22 Austria 3 Azerbaijan 22 Croatia 45 Finland 61 former Yougoslov Republic of Macedonia (1) 20 Ireland 10 Sweden 85 Switzerland 4 .................... Non-NATO / Non-EAPC nations New Zealand 5 Where's Iran? Back to topic...... Osama Bin Laden stated back in the '70s that he would bring war to American soil. Nobody believed him back then. And the part that the president sure does not want the American people to think about is, Saddam was fully capable of executing a 9/11 on us all through his reign and he never did. Why are Americans obssessed with other nations and do not solve their own problems such as health , economy ,education .....etc ?. Well in this case you can say that an opportunistic leader with "evil" on his mind saw an opportunity to utilize a great tragedy to the American people and make mega bucks, revenge his dad and put us in a position for a place in the great oil rush in Iraq once Saddam was over thrown. As for the other times in history I cannot give details as I was not there. But that is the bottom line on this one. |
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