Considering terrorism is a war tactic that can be used by any warring nation in a time of war. We very well are terrorists. Also considering we struck a country who did not strike us first out of our own selfish wants, I would say that definitely makes us terrorists.

So are we to assume that nations in the mid east are backing terrorism... I'm glad you admit that, which is why I say we should never negotiate with terrorists & NATIONS WHO SUPPORT THEM!

Thanks for making my arguement.

Nope, did not say that at all. And that is not a possibility as most nations of this world are capable, have participated, are currently employing, etc... terrorism. Terrorism is a warring tactic. It does not describe a certain type of people or nation.

Since only govts. can declare war what does that say about terrorists & govts. who harbor them...all the while telling people they aren't.

You can't have a "peace" process with liars. That is our dilemma as well as the rest of the "civilized" world.

Quick..

Thats for damn sure, just ask the Native Americans who were lied to over and over and over by the U.S. government and had their peace treaties broken over and over.

Our government lies. They all lie. We (America) is as not innocent as you may think. There is a secret shadow group of evil people running the show that is above governments.

There is a very thin line between what is called a terrorist and people defending their lives or their country from invading armies.

JB

One countries terrorist is another countries freedom fighter. Terrorism is just a form of warfare. War being "legally" declared, as we have proven, is not necessary for war to take place. We have only declared a "military action" against Iraq and Afganistan so technically we are not warring with them. Could have fooled me, so many have died for the desires of a few, it is sad.

It is amazing to me how many so called "people of faith" are duped by the right to support war and killing and domestic spying and outing of covert CIA agents, etc... They con you with phony "family value" issues like "pro-life" (is war pro-life?) and "protection of marriage." They scare you with the "boogeyman" of terrorism and Islam. It's this gullible segment of the electorate who are responsible for 7 years of the worst president in the history of this country. In thanks, they've given you record budged deficits (your grandchildren will pay) dead soldiers and $4.00 gas to enrich their corporate friends. Congratulations.

T22, good morning. I'd quibble with you a bit:

I don't think it is the right that has duped Christian evangelicals and others into supporting the disastrous policies of this administration, as much as it was the neocons, specifically. Their motive is in essence to do anything needed to 'protect' Israel, as defined by the Israeli Likkudist party.

I'd also point out that the first time the neocons really got their teeth into the American government was with Reagan, and later with Clinton, when he took the US into new levels of blind support to Israel, thanks to the neocons in his administration, e.g. Dennis Ross and Martin Indyk.

Bush really got nailed by the neocons: everything from the trumped up 'war on terror' to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan to our encouragement of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and oppression of the Palestinians has been inspired by the neocons in his administration.

As I say, I am quibbling, but I'd hate to see all conservatives tarred with the neocon brush.

Oceans

Quickstepper, you may wish to read some background on the creation of Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I recommend:

Menachem Begin, THE REVOLT (paperback)
David Ben Gurion, MEMOIRS
Theodor Herzel, THE JEWISH STATE, especially the first edition if your local library has it.

Regarding negotiating with terrorists, you might want to read up on several events that have occurred publicly in the last couple of weeks:

1. Israel's negotiations with HAMAS
2. Israel's negotiations with Syria
3. The US's most recent negotiations with Anbar tribal leaders
4. The US's negotiations with "Axis of Evil" North Korea

These are instructive because Israel and the US have been the greatest asserters of the (fallacious) notion that "You can't/shouldn't negotiate with terrorists."

While many Americans fell for this, despite history being replete with examples of successful negotiations with terrorists, the two governments that most asserted it in fact do regularly 'negotiate with terrorists', and often with good results.

I hope you will follow-up on the reading recommendations; I think you will find those books interesting and helpful in actually understanding the conflict.

Oceans

DUH! 911 happened!!!! DUH!

BTW.... wars were fought even in the Bible...or are you saying that our getting involved with the WW1 & WW2 terrorism too? DUH! That's EXACTLY what you are implying...that today political correctness says we should just roll over to terrorists & thugs. Political correctness says we don't pay enough keep taxing for bigger programs & forget about freedoms, turn right & wrong upside down...political correctness says do your own thing, the govt. will take care of you if you get in trouble. Don't worry that it weakens our resolve. Political correctness justifies its leadership by saying...everyone does it! Please...don't go pointing fingers. OK?

We need solutions... viable ones at that.

I know what I need to know... their own govts. mass kill because of the deep hatreds & thrist for blood. Sadat himself has mass bloodshed on his hands. If they deal with their own people that way there must be a reason.

When you play politics with peace you don't resolve anything. I'm tired of our country having to play mediator to stone aged people & their backward thinking about Jews & their hatred of coming up to the present age. Their religion has not allowed THEM the opportunity to evolve. That is the real problem.

Stop blaming America because some people over there can't get along.

BTW...Oceans...for the record, your good loving heart comes through. Believe me when I say that Christians are praying for specifically that the terrorists have their "on the road to Damascus" experience. That God will stop them in their tracks & they will be healed of this hatred & evil deception they are under. In todays day & age there is no reason why people can't get along & live in peace. Unfortunately sometimes hatred causes an evil cycle that I believe our govt. got involved in for many reasons. It's not just about oil or making money like some here say.

Just sayin'....

I don't believe we'd be in the Middle-East if not for the oil. If we didn't put our troops on sacred (to Muslims) Saudi soil, then "Muslim extremists" would have no conflict with us.

And yes, "wars were fought even in the Bible." Sadly, the organized religions of man are a major cause of intolerance and war and death. Weren't the Crusades waged by Christians primarily against Muslims?

Is "Thou shall not kill" optional?

Well actually...the bible has no objections to self defense but it has to be justifiable. Since terrorists are not legit govts. what does that say about THEM? I think as long as they are allowed to flourish we are all in trouble & it has to be dealt with.

I'm for peace too ... but when the people over there...those "innocent" civilians as many like to call them, vote over & over to support these terrorists what does that say about THEM??? I do understand what you mean though. I feel like our own govt. is not listening to us. LOL What do you do?

They didn't even want the moderate Palastinian govt. that was there. How can you bring people out of that mindset if they don't want to change?

I certainly don't have any answers to that except to keep praying with all the other Christians for their deliverance. What's impossible for man is possible for God.

I see 2 things going on today...

God's Spirit is going out into the world...in places that govts. have been oppressing...directly to the people. God's Spirit is embracing His people & moving on those who need Him... like in the eye of the needle...that safe place...to rebuild & restore & give strength & everything they need. It's happening.

Then there is govt. & it's corruption.

It's like being in 2 different worlds.. one is the Heavenly world & the other is "the world."

Very awesome indeed...I know...take it to the Religion board. LOL Can't help it... I just wanted to inject some hope.

By "moderate Palestinian govt.," do you mean aligned with US interests? We curretly support Saudi Arabia, a country of monarchy, suppression of women, beheadings and incubation of "radical Islam?" We have a history of supporting brutal dictators like the Saudi Royals, Saddam, Somoza, the Shah of Iran, etc. when it is in our interest.

Why is it an affront to us when suppressed people of those regimes we've supported want to strike back?

Why are we always right?

Some religious ones think they owe this world and they can do anything they wish regardless to all the rest of us . They wrongly think , they are representing God in this universe .
.

Is not true that most faith loving people are also hate loving too ?. When you support a terrorist , you are a terrorist .
Some folks mix religion with politics to achieve thier evil agenda .

Well look... actually...those govts. are much more moderate than terrorists & taliban types. That is what I was referring to... America has had to deal with the gammet...the shah actually brought Iranians culture etc up to the modern times. Kohmeni & co. brought them right back to the stone age. Should we back fanatics instead?

it might be true what you are saying but they are still more moderate than the terrorists & those who back them. That's all I'm saying. Do we want stability or not? I think that's good for all people. Don't you?

BTW...we kept Sadaam there because the globalists wanted to keep him there. So much for being anti unilateralist. Waiting for the other nations to get brave was the real waste of time. They are cowards who also promote do nothing policies for their own gains.

You didn't answer the questions. You never do.

Well, sometimes ya gotta throw a lot of jello before you get any to stick to the wall....

Excuses. There is always an excuse. If there is no excuse, there is a reason. "For national security" is a good one.
"To fight terrorism" is another good one. "He was a bad dictator.." is another good one. "They have weapons of mass destruction and plan to use them on us..." is a great one.

"They are responsible for 9-11." "They harbor terrorists"

I could go on and on. There are always reasons and excuses.

JB