Yeah, it's a tough one JB. How can we tell what is on one's heart? Even actions, good or bad, can be misleading. It was a great question though! Definitely food for thought.

well, there it is.

True.

nothing fancy then about being a saint.

it just is what it is and Spider is right, again

Oops! I must have missed that.

Christians had a lot of different names for themselves, because they were hunted. They also had secret signs, like the ichthus.

Written by the disciple John
Sent around the churches in Asia Minor
Some had separated themselves from the main church claiming that they had received true knowledge of God =(false christian)
The theme is how to tell the difference between true Christian values and false ones
John(v 1-4)
John saw and touched Jesus, his word can be trusted
God is Light (v 5-7)
The breakaway group claimed that sin did not matter; people could live however they wanted==(false christian)
They also believed that they could be out of relationship with their fellow believers and still be in relationship with God=(false christian)
They were wrong on both
Sin (v 8-2v 2)
The breakaway group believed that they were sin free
Reality is that when we do sin we need to honestly acknowledge it to God and then receive His forgiveness and cleansing==(true christian)

The importance of relying on God’s word, rather than our feelings or revelations, for the truth=(true christian)

Importance of confessing our sin to God and receiving forgiveness-(true christian)

You experience this beholding Christ.
2 Cor 3:18 says that as we look at Christ, degree by degree we are conformed into His image. Is Christ constantly in your gaze? Do you long for Heaven as much because you're going to be rid of sin, because Christ is going to be there.=(true hristian)
Look, if you're not in the Word of God regularly and you're not gazing upon Christ regularly, and that's where the Spirit of God leads His people. If Christ isn't regularly in your thoughts, in your mind, in your life then you're in trouble. The Spirit of God came into this world to glorify Jesus Christ, and in this He leads us to gaze on the Glory of the Son of God. If He's not leading you there regularly, constantly, frequently, daily, continuously, then go back and start your hunt all over again. Go back there and gaze on Him until the assurance comes, until the assurance is given. Becoming a true christian.

1. A child of God experiences Spirit led triumph with sin.
This is not some do and some don't. It's not just the ideal, but nobody, or very few attain it. But rather it is all who are led by the Spirit are Sons of God.

Rom 8:14 "For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." and the preceding verse: v13"For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Note: Die and Live here denotes eternal Hell, and eternal Life.
If you don't put to death the deeds of the body you will be in Hell, if you do then it is evidence that you are led by the Spirit.

Children of God are led by the Spirit to the place where they do actually resist sin, detest sin, grieve over sin, fight with sin, and actually triumph over sin. Not just once or twice, but it is the ongoing experience of a "true Christian".

Kat

KAT

It was at my church.

I can actually speak on this topic as a Christian because I was a Christian at one time. So I can give you my experience with that, and how our church felt about.

I was raised Free Methodist. So I was born into a Christian family, I was baptized at birth. I vividly remember popping out of the womb. The first thing that happened was some real jerk grabbed by my ankles, hung me upside down, and then smacked my butt really hard! It hurt so bad I started crying really hard. Then a really nice nurse picked me up and held me against her bosom and I thought to myself, “Wow this is really cool” So I calmed down and nestled against her breasts.

Just then some man approached me in a black suit. He waiving his hands around and mumbling words in monotone. Then, all of a sudden for no apparent reason he flick his hand at me and splattered water in my face! I’ve always been more attracted to women than men ever since that first day of life.

What was the question again?

Oh yeah. Obviously the baptism isn’t being born again. Otherwise I would have been born again on the same day I was born the first time. Clearly there’s more to it.

The way our church saw it, is that every member of the church if a ‘Christian’, and anyone can be a member, just walk in the door. No prerequisites required.

However, to be ‘born again’ one must knowingly understand what it means to accept Jesus as their savior and actually do this. This was typically done by going to the alter when they have alter call. Only after you have gone through that ritual are you considered to be born again. However, our church was not strict about that. You could accept Jesus as your savior anytime you want in any way you want. It’s a personal thing. Also, just because someone goes through the ritual doesn’t mean that they truly understood what they were doing or that they actually asked Jesus to come into their life. So being ‘born again’ was something that only an individual could lay claim to. No one else would pass that judgment on anyone else.

Our church never really used the term much. Everyone understood what it means, we just didn’t typically boast about being ‘born again’ or not.

So according to the beliefs of the church I grew up in, I’m a ‘born again’ Christian. I went to the alter and asked Jesus to come into my life, and took the communion that it the ritual that accompanies that act.

According to my mother who was a very devout ‘born again’ Christian herself. Although she never used the term ‘born again’, once a person has accepted Jesus into their heart then they are ‘saved’. So later on when I left Christianity it didn’t bother my mother. She would also tell me. Jesus lives in your heart and there is nothing you can do to change that now.

All I know is that I never felt any different before or after having asked Jesus to come into my heart. I was at peace before I asked, and I’m still at peace afterward. Nothing has changed from my perspective. And now I denounce the religion altogether and I reject the very notion of Christ’s divinity. And still, nothing has changed. I still feel at peace with God and the universe.

Just sharing my own personal experience, and clearly the part about remembering having popped out of the womb was just a joke.

Really? I believed you because I really do remember being born.

The first thing I noticed is the rush of cold air around my body. Then the being held upside down and the spank on the bottom. Twice.

I remember thinking, "That was highly unnecessary." Only not in words. As a new born, you do not think in words, you only think in non verbal thoughts. I was really mad at that person who hit me.

That's all I remember.

Many things between then and now are a blur. I seem to only remember certain events that were traumatic or a turning point in my life. The rest is like a dream.

JB

Interesting. A split second before that you were merely a viable tissue mass? Something worth thinking about.

No, I had no memory of being a viable tissue mass. Before I entered the body of the baby in the womb, I was in some sort of waiting area. Lots of balls of light were in there and lots of personalities. Someone came up to me and said that it was time. I knew that it was time to leave the comfort of the light.

Then I was inside the body of the baby and still in the womb. Then I was born.

JB

True Christians just taste better. Ask any lion. Some lions would just rather fight than switch.

Lions smoke Tareyton's?

That was a Lucky Strike. I see your point.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Touche'

Honestly...

I am a very, very spiritual person but I have a real problem with Religions and these Holier than thou people. The bible says... "Judge not... lest you be judged". I think they point the finger to avoid dealing with their issues. Very few people are "true Christians". It means " Little Christ". Not I am better than another! I believe in the infallible word of God, I believe in prayer... but not humans as a whole. I am very saddened by humanity as a whole. There is light for those who seek it.

Real beauty comes from within. I have no right to judge another... People these days like to "jump behind their religion to justify their evils... and those people are truly the most dangerous people and can do the most damage I think"

Take care!

Angela

I agree. While there is nothing "wrong" with aspiring to perfection or aspiring to be perfect ~such as the image of Christ,~ all too many begin to feel superior to others and begin to pass judgment, and look down their self righteous noses at others.

Love, compassion, and faith in whatever your concept of God is, to me, is becoming Christ-like.

Even if one who claims to be an atheist lives in love and compassion and gratitude for life, he or she is a spiritual person and are embracing God.

All are embraced by God, and all who embrace love, compassions and gratitude embrace that which is God.

"Holier-that-thou," or "I-know-God-and you-don't" attitudes are not good examples to lead with.

"I-have-the-truth-and-you-don't" is a foolish notion.

I offer my love and service to others and to God and all creation.

Honestly, if that is not enough, then I will serve in Hell.

(But I don't intend to go to hell, in all truth, even if someone did create it, as I don't believe in it.)

JB

I don't even know what is the concept of "born again christian."
are those the ones who are converted later in their lifes?

I would say a bad christian is the guy who blows past me speeding, weaving in and out of traffic on his way to church on Sunday.

John 3:3-6


The promise made by God to Abraham wasn't talking of Abraham's physical decendants, but his spiritual decendants. Those with a spirit like Abrahams are thus, Abrahams seed.

John 1:12-13

thank you spider.
I have a further question.
what about those who have been born in a christian family and have been christian ever since.
are they "born again christians?"