Hi Abracadabra,

No, two of my majors were Religious History, and Cultural Studies, so I loved getting to know all the different ways people worshiped, and lived. I was fortunate enough to go to the places I studied about because of touring with "Rock Stars", so you probably are labeling me just a little, but that's OK.

I do highly respect everyone's views & beliefs


as i also reserve the right to express my own

Many of the Jews did. Nothing that Jesus taught goes against what was taught by Jews, it added to what they taught.

Your personal conspiracy theorys make no sense, I can't believe you don't see that. If the words of Jesus were changed, why would the Apostles have gone to their deaths? Can you answer that? Why would they suffer torture and death for a lie? Why would they watch their loved ones and friends suffer for a lie? There is no sane person who would allow himself to be tortured for 8 months (like Peter did) for a lie. NONE. Sorry man, but your beliefs aren't well thought out and simply fade away like mist in the morning sun.

So true!!!! there is such a well documented string, that goes straight through Jesus past and present. And the fact that this tie was happening all over the world is amazing.

You’re kidding me right?

Why do people today who have absolutely no reason to believe in these stories devote their lives to them?

And this is certainly not unique with Christianity. People have been known to devote themselves to many different myths. That doesn’t automatically make them true.

Look at the followers of Jim Jones, and David Koresh!

People will follow mad men to their death! That doesn’t make them God.

People have even been known to follow psychotic killers like Charles Manson and others.

A whole nation of people followed Hitler!

Sorry, not impressive in the least. People have been known to follow just about anyone.

I don’t mean to suggest by this that Jesus was a madman. On the contrary, he was seen as an innocent man standing for righteousness who was unjustly crucified. All the more reason to follow his teachings. He was a martyr. There’s no question about that.

You aren't addressing the question. WHY WOULD 12 LIARS ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE TORTURED AND DIE RATHER THAN RECANT THEIR LIES? If the "Jesus wasn't God...the Apostles made it up" theory is true, then the APOSTLES were liars and suffered torture and death rather than recant their lies. DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT AGIAN. I'm not talking about people who believed the Apostles, I'm talking about the Apostles, whom you deem to be liars. WHY WOULD THEY DIE FOR A KNOWN LIE?

Thank you Michael for this message ...
I have a good musician friend who tours all over the world
and even though they are rock stars & apart from the mainstream

they do have occasion to mingle with the locals a bit ,
& observe their traditions & partake of their cuisine ...
and it is really quite fascinating...the stories he tells

We all are so very different ,

yet

there are certain undeniable commonalities we all share...

Honestly Abracadabra,

You will have do deal with your own questions, and what you want to believe or not.

I wish you the best on your path, but I doubt if your going to convert many. You just don't have the data.

I'm not trying to label anyone.

You seem to have missed the whole point here. All I'm saying that it is untrue that "One Solitary Life" had such a great impact on all of humanity.

The point is that it's a 'proselytizing' technique to try to brainwash people into believing that someone was so unique that they just had to have been divine.

But the bottom line is that it's a lie. His popularity was not do to his life alone. His popularity is due to the fact that he's associated with a very ancient and complex religion.

That all I'm saying.

I'm not even making any claims concerning whether or not he was divine.

I'm just point out that the to claim that he was so unique in his impact on humanity is a falsity.

It doesn't even come down to a matter of belief. It’s just a fact that without the rest of the dogma Jesus would have no clout at all. He wouldn’t have been able to offer everlasting life, and it couldn’t be claimed that he died for the sins of man. All of that requires a believe in a complete and complex religious dogma that preceded him. He does not stand on his own.

That’s a valid point and I’m sticking to it.

I just don’t understand why people have to use underhanded ‘proselytizing’ techniques that are basically lies just to try to convince people that he was special.

All I’m asking is, “What’s wrong with sticking with the truth?”

From my point of view this is nothing more than a brainwashing scheme to try to get people to think that something unexplainable or out of the ordinary is associated with the man named Jesus when in fact, it’s not true.

Why tell lies for the sake of spreading a religion?

Seems like a legitimate question to me.

Yes, He was unjustly crucified ,
and He was a martyr ...

thank you
for saying that



and to many of us....

He is God


i thank you for your observations

I’m not trying to convert anybody.

I just don’t understand why people feel they have to lie to proselytize Christianity.

Rapunzel,

Don't know if your from the old days, but if you are than you know my blood Keith Green. I'm Michael Green.

My Brother said this once to me

and i have to agree wholeheartedly


He said,

" i would rather die believing


in The Lord Jesus Christ



and find out that He wasn't the Truth


than to die unbelieving in the Lord Jesus Christ ...



and find out that He is


the Way ~ The Truth ~ & The Life "

Nice to meet you, Michael...


I don't think i know Keith ...

My Brother once met and played with Peter Green

< who once was with Fleetwood Mac>,

at Goddard College, in Vermont , in the late 60's

Cool, I remastered "Rumors"

Here's a song that came out on the "No Compromise" LP by Keith

Make my life a prayer to you
I wanna do what you want me to
No empty words and no white lies
No token prayers no compromise

I wanna shine the light you gave
Thru your son you sent to save us
From ourselves and our despair
It comforts me to know you’re really there

Chorus
Well I wann thank you know
For being patient with me
Oh it’s so hard to see
When my eyes are on me
I guess I’ll have to trus
And just believe what you say
Oh you’re coming again
Coming to take me away

I wanna die and let you give
Your life to me so I might live
And share the hope you gave me
The love that set me free

I wanna tell the world out there
You’re not some fable or fairy tale
That I’ve made up inside my head
You’re God the son and you’ve risen from the dead

Chorus

I wanna die and let you give
Your life to me so I might live
And share the hope you gave me
The love that set me free

What many people don’t seem to realize is that I have a lot of respect for the man named Jesus too. From what I’ve read he apparently had a philosophy about life that falls in perfect alignment with how I believe as well. And another man named Buddha preached basically the same things and was just as famous.

I personally don’t believe in many of the claims that were made about Jesus concerning him having been born of a virgin, or that he died for the salvation of man, or that he rose from the dead. I believe those things to be rumor and demagoguery that were created about him after he died.

But even so. Even if I believed in his divinity, (and those stories of divinity), I still wouldn’t stoop to underhanded brainwashing techniques to trying to get people to believe in Jesus. I would simply teach the whole religion as it truly unfolded from the beginning. And I would openly confess that Jesus cannot stand alone on his own as “One Solitary Life”, and that his divinity requires a completely belief in an entire religious history.

I don’t happen to believe in the whole of that religion. But if I did, I wouldn’t try to belittle it by trying to sweep it all under the carpet in favor of pointing to just one character within the whole doctrine.

Christianity isn’t about “Jesus”, it’s about a whole religious belief that begins with the God of Abraham.

To speak about it like it’s the result of “One Solitary Life” is to seriously belittle the religion as a whole.

You can’t worship Jesus as God without also Worshiping the God of Abraham. So you better go back and love that God FIRST! And if you find it difficult to love that God you better realize that Jesus is that God!

And lets not belittle the role of Satan either because without that Fallen Angel there would be no need for Jesus.

If you’re going to proselytize a religion at least get the whole story out there and quit pointing to Jesus as though he’s the whole religion. He’s not the whole religion. Supposedly he’s the same God who told people to kill their unruly children and to stone sinners to death.

If you believe the whole religion then Jesus is a walking contraction which is one reason why I don’t believe the whole story.

I think it would have been much better just to teach the moral teachings of Jesus in the same why that people teach the moral teachings of Buddha. Then you'd have two differnt wisemen from different cultures who are in perfect agreement with one another.

This thread started as a written testimony

to the humble & solitary life of Jesus Christ




Buddha & Mahatma Gandhi & Chief Seattle & Bob Dylan

and many others also have wisdom & amazing words to hear


& we can post them in another thread,


or include them with this one if you'd like ....


I love to read wise words from many sources.....

Buddha's totally cool with me. He talked about the coming of Jesus.

Wow !!!

That's an extremely controversial topic.

First off, Buddha said that the Metteyya will only arise when there is no memory of his own teachings left in the World. This obviously excludes Jesus as being the Metteyya of which he was prophesizing.

Moreover, many pantheists have actually attempted to use this as an argument to suggest that Jesus was actually a pantheist (like Buddha) and that he was simply misunderstood even by his very own disciples.

So there’s certainly nothing cut-and-dried in this far-reaching speculation.

There are many other inconsistencies in this as well, since Buddha had also suggested that the Metteyya would be a monk in charge of thousands of monks. That was hardly the case for Jesus.

To say that Buddha foretold the coming of Jesus is extremely far-fetched, and can’t really be made to work in the details. If it could have been made to work the Christians would have been all over this like a new suit.

They know better because of the problems involved. Not only in trying to match up what Buddha prophesized with Jesus, but even if they succeeded in doing that, they would just be faced with an onslaught of accusation that then Jesus must have also been preaching Pantheism and the myths about his virgin birth, rising from the dead and dying for the salvation of man to appease the God of Abraham would all be nothing more than demagoguery.

Most theologians don’t even want to become involved in the jungle that would be created by trying to claim that Buddha foretold the coming of Jesus. They would be in for an onslaught of far more questions than answers.