Morning song you are going in circles with this exclamation / explanation.

When I told you that I had been "born again in spirit" you informed me that I could not be born again unless I believed in and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior.

To do that I would have to understand the Bible.

Then you say that the Bible will not make sense 'until' you are born again.

You can't have it both ways.

Well I say that I have been born again in spirit ~~ but I am not a Christian and I don't accept the idea that a blood sacrifice of a man (or a god) is necessary for my spiritual enlightenment.

JB

Jeannie....FAITH comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

It did not say UNDERSTANDING comes , it said FAITH comes.

But,I am sure it takes a certain amount of understanding too, in order to RECIEVE that Word by FAITH....but still , the real and complete understanding of the Word, cannot come til one is born again.

THE FULL UNDERSTANDING , which is Given by God, NOW is ABLE to Come into one's spirit ...simply becaue NOW, one's spiritual eyes have been opened.

Once a person is born again, understanding of the Word truly begins, as one starts to eat and grow.

Just like a baby eats and grows.....
the more eating..the more growing..the more understanding....
the more eating, the more growing ..the more understanding....etc. etc. etc.

But of course, one still does need to HEAR the Word ....in order to come to Jesus
in the first place.
Like the bible says, how can a man know ...accept the Word be preached?

So... a man has to HEAR....in order to get FAITH to BELIEVE and RECIEVE.
THEN the FULL UNDERSTANDING COMES after that born again experience.

Faith comes by Heaing.....
Later, Understanding Comes by Eating and Growing.

But a baby has to be BORN FIRST, in order to eat and grow and learn....and understand.


BUT...WITHOUT being born again, God's Word makes no sense.


So Jeannie....in order to become born again, one has to have FAITH ....to believe that Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood for our sins...and then rose again.....

and then one simply has to receive Jesus into their heart,as their Lord and Saviour, by Faith.

That's how one gets saved...just believe and recieve that free gift of grace....by FAITH.

Jeannie...I am not doubting , that your way of becoming born again was not real to you....I am sure it was ..and I respect that.

BUT.... it is not the same as being born again ,according to the Bible.....


But ...even if you and I don't agree, Jeannie.. just know, I love and accept you just the way you are...regardless.

But of course, you do know, I would LOVE to see you come to know Jesus too.... but I'm leaving that in God' hands.

I love you regardless, Sweet Lady...

Morning song,

Okay, gottcha! It just seemed to me that you were contradicting yourself..

If you can't make sense of the Bible until you are born again and you can't be born again until you make sense of the Bible and believe and accept it.

It looks like a catch 22.

JB

Faith Comes by Hearing and Hearing by the Word of God (Romans 10:17; 1 Corinthians 2:6-16)

The website (listed below) offers some excellent info for all who are seeking answers.


Miles...if you are reading this.... I am posting this especially for you.

Go to the table of contents in the website listed(below) and read the articles....but especially read the one about another Jesus.

This is all excellent material listed, cause the content of the material, all line up with the Word of God.

Be Blessed Now.....

Here is the website now.....

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/salvation_webpages/00-introduction.htm

So here you have finally said that first you must hear to come to Jesus. Well I did hear and it is all a contradictory bloody God that can only be appeased by me continually saying Sorry God, Im Sorry, So Sorry.
I heard for most of my life and the Book is just plain wrong. It causes harm to come to many people. Just look at the suicide rate for gay teens for example.

I would rather just love my fellow man and do good in the world.

Peace in truth

The whole concept of ‘coming to Christ’ just doesn’t wash.

Jesus said that he would come into the lives of those who ask him and reveal himself to them.

Well, I asked over 40 years ago, and I’m still waiting,…

The door is wide open. All Jesus needs to do is keep his WORD.

I can’t force Jesus to do that. That’s his job.

Whenever he’s ready to come into my life the doors wide open.

The ball’s in his court.

There’s nothing I can do about it. It’s entirely in his hands.

Only He can keep His WORD.

That, I cannot do for him.

All I can do is ask. And I’ve already done that decades ago, and like I say, the door’s been open ever since.

You might claim that it’s closed. But you aren’t Jesus. He knows better if he really does exist.

If his existence depends upon my belief then I would be his creator, instead of the other way around.

So he can’t depend upon my belief. He must have a reality of his own. Otherwise he just a figment of imagination. His existence can’t depend on the beliefs of mere mortal men. Either he’s the creator of this universe, or he’s a myth. Can’t have it both ways. His existence can’t depend upon my beliefs. Either he’s real and he keeps his WORD, (which he hasn’t), or he’s a myth.

He can’t promise to come into the lives of those who ask and reveal himself to them, and not keep his WORD when they do precisely that.

There is nothing more I can do. I’ve already made the request. That’s all I can do. The rest is up to him to keep his WORD.

If I have to join a church and brainwash myself in to pretending that some unseen deity came into my life, then what’s the point to that? The whole thing has been reduced to nothing more than a cult.

Either Jesus is real or he’s not. There wasn’t any mention about joining any organized religious cult. He’s promised to do this one-on-one. There’s no mention about having to join an organized religion and being brainwashed by any cult.

Jesus is suppose to be real unto himself. No need for any churches or Christian “fellowships”. Those are just brainwashing ceremonies to perpetuate a cult that has nothing at all to do with Jesus really.

Jesus is supposed to do this one-on-one. Once you’ve heard the message you shouldn’t need any church. All you’re supposed to need to do is ask Jesus to come into your life, and HE will take it from there.

I’m still waiting for his response to my request. Maybe there’s a long waiting list? In the meantime, I’m not about to join any artificial cults who think they can take his place by using his name in the label of their religon.

Abracadabra,

You told me resently that you refuse to repent. You said that if God came to you himself and asked you to repent you would refuse and say "Send me to hell". Jesus came for those who admit that they need salvation, your pride prevents you from asking for salvation. If you humble yourself and ask again, you might get the answer you want.

Don't you understand Abra that he never will with that attitude....You have to ask him into your heart openly and with no reservations. You can't treat God or Jesus as if they are something your are entitled to......your not....And how can the door be open if you don't truly in your heart believe that Jesus can help you......And if you ever think abra for a second that you are on the same plain or in any way the creator yourself....What honey do you honestly think that is doing to Jesus.

His existence is there for the asking.....If you truly from your heart believe and say......Jesus I am broken, I ask you into my heart.....that is all it takes.....but when you have crap that is not allowing you to do this you will wait an eternity.

He can never keep a word to someone who does not truly believe.....it just will never happen.....You know the story abra of how I came to the lord....I did so with open arms and never for one second doubting in Him and what He could do in my life.

You can't expect Christ to come to you when your heart is harden to him. You don't have to join anything....Your relationship with the Lord is a personal journey and the only great thing about a church is the fellowship of people who also Love the Lord.......See abra that is it in a nutshell you don't love the Lord.....You tested him for all that time...but never truly loved himm....

Fellowship is huge........When the Lord dwells in your heart you naturally want to be around like people. I love all my brothers and sisters......I love doing things with them, laughing with them, and all of it....But it is not something you have to do.


I really do love you abra....and you know it.......sometimes I wish I could just be right there with you and give you a big hug........

This is absolutely untrue Spider. And I will assume that this was just a misunderstanding on your part.

What I said was that I refuse to allow Jesus to die for my sins. And I do.

That doesn’t mean that he can’t come into my life. I can still offer to be his follower. I simply refuse to allow him to die for my sins.

That is not at all the same as refusing to repent.

I’m willing to do God’s bidding without the gift of eternal life.

Can you say the same thing?

I can treat God anyway I want. He’s supposedly my creator. Who are you to tell me how to interact with my creator?

Jesus made promises. And that means that he needs to keep his WORD.

Your personal opinion on the matter is moot.

My relationship with my creator is between me and him. No YOU and me and him.

The Law of Attraction also says that you must believe in something in order to be able to see it. This has been proven with hypnotism techniques an with animals in laboratory experiments.

Perception and belief has everything to do with what we perceive as real. This means that this universe we live in is subjective, not objective at all. Everything is a projection of the mind.

You might say that everything is an illusion that seems real. Jesus is an illusion that seems real. The world we see and touch and feel is an illusion that seems real.

Everything is a reflection of light. Everything is a vibration and has a frequency. Being an artist I know that a pigment does two things. It absorbs and reflects different kinds of light.

Some light we can see and some light we cannot see. This is a scientific fact. Some sounds we can hear and some sounds we cannot because they are out of our frequency range. That does not make them "mystical" or non-existent. It just means that we are not equipped with the sensors that can see and hear them.

Faith can heal and belief can cause you to see. But is any of it real or is it just in the mind? What is real must be real to you. You can change your personal reality by changing your beliefs.

Also there are those who know that if they can get a multitude of people to believe something strong enough and long enough they can cause that something to manifest in reality.

This is why governments use propaganda. This is why cults use brainwashing. This is the magic of believing. It manifests things. Once the thing has manifested, it perpetuates by keeping your attention upon it. That is what gives it duration and duration is what causes scientists to declare it real or fact.

But it is all still illusion. It is all still in the mind. It is all still just a dream. It is all still just light and sound and vibration.

JB

You guys make Jesus sound like the Bully that steals your hat and holds it over your head while you try to jump up and get it. Every time you get close to it the bully pulls it up higher and as you fall back to earth the Bully brings that hat down closer to you so you feel even more inadequate for your miss.


I guess Jesus likes to see you keep Jumping and Jumping for his love while he keeps it just out of reach.

Besides, you’re talking about a vantage point that has grown after 40 years of his not keeping his word. I didn’t have this attitude in the early going. In the early going I was just sincerely waiting for him to response to my sincere request to be his servant and do his bidding.

My currently attitude has gown over the forty yeas of his failure to show. And despite what you might there is no bitterness associate with it at all. I’d still welcome him today and not even complain that he was late getting here. But I’d still have to turn down his gift of eternal life for my own moral principles.

I sincerely want no parts of an eternal heaven that I didn’t honestly qualify for on my own. I don’t care who's willing to pay my way.

Jesus does not exist.
Except as an idea.

We had this discussion just a couple pages back...

SpiderCMB Wrote:


Abracadabra Wrote:


If that isn't you refusing to repent, I'm not sure what I just read.

It does seem that we just can’t beg hard enough.

So I finally asked myself the questions, “Just exactly what is it that I’m begging for?”

And the answer seem to be that I’m begging to be allowed to live eternally with this deity that keeps me in a constant state of begging!

Is that what I really want?

Maybe dying would actually be better?

So I chose to just die. What the hell? It beats being made to beg for the rest of eternity.

After all, the only thing we know about this God is that he loves to play hide and seek, and keep people begging. And that he is appeased by spilled blood, and that he solves most problems with violence and threats at are archaically medieval in their nature.

Would serving such a God for all of eternity really be so appealing? Death sounds like the better option if you ask me. I mean, if I’m given a free will choice, I’ll politely and cordially chose death.

No hard feelings. Just a very polite, “Thanks but no thanks” to the offer of eternal life with this game-playing deity for all of eternity. It’s just not something I’m interested in doing.

No need to place any negative emotions onto that. I’m just not interested in this so-called ‘gift’. According to the fine print, it’s far from free and requires a commitment of eternal servitude to a game-playing God who seems to be obsessed with blood and guts and violent solutions to problems.

So even if Jesus comes to me and proves that he’s real, I’ll just give him a brotherly hug, wish him the best with his kingdom and then request my free choice of death. No hard feelings involved at all. I’m just not interested. No need to try to make it into an emotional ordeal.

No not at all. Did I say anything about refusing to repent?

I simply agreed to one of the options that God was giving me.

I didn’t say that I was refusing the other option.

You take too much for granted.

An all-knowing God would know precisely what I meant.

And that's all that matters.

Do you even believe that or do you just expect me to believe it?

I can't talk to you right now, you aren't making sense.

Since you’re not God I really don’t care what you believe.

I only need to worry about what God knows. Not about how you twist things around.

Supposedly God is all-knowing. So he would know my every thought.

As long as that’s true I would imagine that he’ll send me straight to Seventh Heaven with no questions asked. He knows that I have no need to repent.

Jesus said that we’ll be judged as we judge others. Since I don’t judge others that means that on judgment day the gates of heaven will just automatically open for me like the doors of a Wal-mart. I’ll just walk in with no questions ask.

For Jesus tells me so. This is his WORD.

I’ve already fulfilled everything else he has asked of me.

Although, I’m sure you'll disagree, but since you aren’t Jesus that’s really moot isn’t it?