I think I already know what Christians believe. I am looking for some logical reason they believe it.

I am trying to understand WHY they believe it.

If what they claim is true, I am trying to understand WHY it is true. I am trying to understand the REASONS for why it might have some truth in it.

If you want to get all testy and defensive then don't bother to try to answer my questions.

I am being serious.

JB

Sweetie i would be honored to answer any question you have. I am not a christian. The Pagans called them christians not themselves. They called themselves The Way. And what I am Is a Yahwist of the Way.. Blessings..Miles

Good.

Why do Christians or Pagans or anyone else believe they need to appease their gods (or god's law) with a blood sacrifice of a pure animal or a pure human or a child or what ever...?

That would be a good start.

Well babe thier is no sacrafice of any child. Yahshua has been the only man sacrafice.

Sacrafice started after the garden of Eden. When they were kicked out sacrafice of grain and sorts were going on. Always the best they had though.

Abraham was told to sacrafise himself and all 300+ servants in a blood ritual of circumsision. Yahweh does not seek sacrafise as in these vereses.

Ps 51:15-17

15 O Yahweh, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17 The sacrifices of Elohim are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O Elohim, thou wilt not despise.
KJV


Elohim was mainly translated to g-d.

The Passover lamb was brought into your house as a pet 4 days before the Passover when the lamb would be killed.

This was done to show the people how much they mess up thier lives and the ones around them.

Because this lamb they brought in became a pet and they all became attached to it. Imagine a mother having to tell a 6 year old 4 days later they have to kill thier pet because of mommy and daddys sins.

It was for them to understand sinning in a physical way. We have slaughter houses everywhere. Only peta gets up set. Mc Donalds doesn't

When Yahshua our messiah came along he did many things i would have to write alot at what happened the 4 days before his death.

He was the sacraficial lamb of yahweh. The plain People loved him.

The 1st thing he does when he comes into jerusalem is go To his fathers house. This is when he gets angry at the money changers.

These 4 days before his death was the lamdb comming into be with the people.

Thier is more recorded in your bible about these 4 days than all the rest about him.

he was leaving as much knowledge to the people as he could.

When he was taken many wanted to save him and were afraid of the High Priest. The religious Elite. It is still the same today.

they put him to death not for what he had done but because they were scared the people would follow him.

When they had the 2 prisoners up in front of the people they yelled for yahshua to die.

One reason for this is barabbas was also claiming to be the messiah and he had been killing Romans which was fine with the High priest.

bar means son

abbas mean father or dad

So what barabbas was saying is he was the Son of the Father

a false messiah claiming he was the real son of man.

Hope that answers some questions i have to go shortly but will be on sometime.

May Yahweh Send His Angels To Look Over You....Blessings...Miles

I'm sorry to say this Miles, but that did not answer my question.

Why do Christians or Pagans or anyone else believe they need to appease their gods (or god's law) with a blood sacrifice of a pure animal or a pure human or a child or what ever...?

(Even Voodoo practices use sacrifice for their magic.)

I am simply trying to understand the reasoning behind this idea / practice. I suspect they are all a little related.

The slaughter of the people in Jerico was justified by the story that they were "evil" because they worshiped a different god and because they sacriiced "their children" to their god.

But apparently sacrificing your child to or for a god is not confined to these people. Even the Christian god allowed (or sent) his son to be sacrificed, or so they say, ~~so there it is again.

Let's assume this is true.

Lets even assume he died for us, (mankind ~humans) in our place.

That would mean that mankind had been found guilty of a crime punishabe by death to all. (call it sin if you want.) Or perhaps some god (or genetic scientist creator ) had decided to erase the human race an start over after finding fault with it for some reason.

Then a bargain was struck with the powers that be on earth ~~ who ever they are ~~ that this son of a god would die in their place.


Instead of killing all the humans, I will let you kill my son. (Or me ~~ whatever the case may be)

This seems to only make sense if there are two opposing powers.

I don't see why God would strike this kind of bargain with himself.

So who might be the opposing force?

Satan?

If this is not the case, then who is the opposing force?

If it is the case, then the son of this god was sacrifice to appease another god, that god being Satan... or who ever you want to name him.

That sort of makes sense. It was a bargain with the devil perhaps, or a bargain between two forces.. regarded as gods.. Maybe they were alien scientists.

JB

Jeannie..Jesus could have called 10,000 angels if He wanted to.....in other words, Jesus did NOT HAVE to go to that cross...He did it out of LOVE for us .....WILLINGLY..so we would not have to .....

What Jesus already did on that cross, Made the Way for SALVATION for Us ALL....we just have to believe and recieve that Free Gift of Grace now...that Jesus ALREADY paid in full..
that's all we have to do now.....believe and recieve

I know I Am repeating myself a lot here...doing so, in hopes that this will eventually become clear .

That does not answer my question either, but let's address your above statement for what it says, assuming it is true, of course.

Suppose Jesus decided NOT to let them kill him. (Bare with me)

Suppose he did not die on the cross and suppose he went on to live a long life, got married, had children etc. (like some secret societies claim..)

Suppose that happened.

Who would then have been in charge of the rounding up of all the humans on earth and the hanging of them to crosses? (You said he died on the cross so we would not have to.)

Or would there have been perhaps, another flood to drown all humans?

How would God (or who ever) then dispose of all of these sinful humans do you suppose? That was the plan, was it not?

And why was this bargain struck, and to whom?

Are we just a bunch of rats in some genetic lab of some god who then decides to drown us all and start over?

Mind you, I am simply looking for some kind of reasoning for this plot to make some sort of sense in the larger picture of things.

I am looking for the reason for this story, and trying to understand why people believe it.

JB

I will answer for you sweet JB

We do not.....I repeat do not do or need blood sacrifices anymore.....As Jesus dying for us was the last......The mosiac law as far as this is no longer.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that God is exactly as I claim....and time and time again God gave these people chance after chance....God does not want any other God's worshipped other then him....And that is exactly as it sounds....Whether your God is a cow, a woman, a two headed snake.......To God this is a slap in his face.....so he kept giving them chances and they slapped his face.....so that's that....God is done....and so are they.

Also understand the biggest point of all....Yes God did send us his only son to die on the cross for our sins....But when Jesus died his awful death at the hands of the Romans.......He died and rose again to show that he is Christ...and then he ascended back to heaven, to live at the right hand of his father.

Mankind is sinful by nature yes.....But also remember that God promised Noah that he would never have a great flood and destroy the earth again.....(hence the rainbow) But Christ will be back and he will take the reigns of the world and no power or government will be or could be stronger.

Satan is the opposing force....When satan thought he was greater then God, and at this time was his right hand angel so to speak.....God banished him to earth for a thousand years......thats right folks he is here...and all the wrong, ugly, bad doing on this planet is a direct relation to satan and his control over the human population......the only ones that he doesn't control are the ones that are strong in their relationship with Christ, and whom put satan in his place...and give him no control....for he prays on the weak.


Satan was never a god in any way shape or form....he was an angel with the highest rank to God as they come....but his rebellion to God, made him pay the price...and When Christ comes back satan will be banished forever and ever

So you are saying that you had one last blood sacrifice and now you have changed your ways.

Good for you.

Still, your entire religion is based on that sacrifice. Without it, you have no religion.

Without it, you feel you are not saved and you will have to pay for your own sins.

So to state that you do not need it is not true. You still need it.

Some churches still practice the drinking of wine (the blood) the eating of the cracker (the flesh) in remembrance of that blood sacrifice.

So yes, you still need it and you still practice it.

I just don't understand why you think you do, or what it means.

JB

In Jewish culture, wine symbolizes all things that are good in this world and bread symbolizes salvation. What Jesus was teaching his apostles is that he is all things that are good in this world and he is salvation. The apostles ate their bread and drank their wine knowing that they were doing it to symbolize their acceptance of Jesus, who is good and salvation.

Jeannie..the Roman way of carrying out the execution of death back then, was by way of the cross .

Even the two thieves on either side of Jesus, were nailed to the cross....the same way.
THAT was the means of execution back then, for breaking the law.

Today we use the electric chair for breaking the law.

Does this help a bit better now?


Point is.....
.........there is LIFE in the blood..that is why Jesus shed His blood..cause there is LIFE in the blood..in other words, by shedding his BLOOD, Jesus Gave His LIFE for Us.

Does this help better clarify, Jeannie???


Decided to edit this, and save further discussion on the subject of the blood,for another time.....

Oh by all means, that clears up everything.


One could say that there is life in everything at a quantum level.

Back in those days people did believe there was life in the blood.

Later, science claimed that protoplasm was the thing that carried life.

That's not true either really.

I am now convinced that I am not going to find the answer to this question by asking. I just want to know why people believe this story. That is a simple enough question.

Apparently they don't know why.

Spider wrote:



I did not realize you were Jewish.

Anyway, in the Church the wine represents the blood of Christ, and the bread represents the flesh of Christ.

I have heard this many times.

JB

Looking for something to help you better understand, Jeannie.......

Let's get started with these articles here:



http://www.earstohear.net/Price/gg-the-blood-and-why-it-is-precious.html


http://www.immanuels.org/biblical_counseling/bc/blood1.htm


http://www.acts17-11.com/blood.html


http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/blood.htm


http://aibi.gospelcom.net/articles/bloodjc.htm


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/lets_talk_about_the_blood.htm


http://www.whyjesusdied.com/X1_passion.html

Jeannie...

Why did God have to go by way of a Blood sacrifice ?


http://www.wcg.org/lit/disc/07whydie.htm


AND now....this.....

WHY the Blood Saves.......


I saved the BEST Explanation for Last......

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Sermons/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/why_the_blood_saves.htm

I read your BEST Explanation.

I can see how that all fits in with the story perfectly. It doesn’t surprise me in the least. It also doesn’t impress me in the least. You could do the same thing with stories in Greek Mythology. All this does is use ideas of superstition throughout the Bible and preys on them for the purpose of demagoguery.

You keep saying that I don’t understand the Bible MorningSong. But I understood the link you gave here perfectly. I fully understand how this demagoguery was put together. I could have made an argument like that myself if I wanted to support the religion.

There’s more than enough superstition in the myth to create almost any kind of demagoguery you want.

I’m not the slightest bit impressed. This would be like making a case for why things happen in any fairytale. Any creative writer can play on these themes.

I’ve examined the idea of Jesus as a ‘sacrificial lamb’ many times and it makes no sense to me. It’s extremely problematic philologically. And being used as a mark for ‘pass over’ is utterly absurd to me.

Yes, I can tie it all together like your preacher did in terms of the superstitions within the myth.

But I’m talking about backing off and looking at the bigger picture and asking, “Would the real creator of this universe do something like this?”

That’s the real key right there MorningSong.

You say that I don’t understand the book because I refuse to lose myself in the stories. But I say to you that you have done just the opposite. You bought into the myth and now you refuse to look at anything but the stories.

I’m saying to back off,… let Toto pull the curtain back for you so you can see whose pulling the levers for the movie show.

Ask yourself, would the real creator of this universe actually be like this????

When I read the Bible I look at it both ways. I read a story or chapter, and ask myself from two different vantage points,….

1. Would the real creator of this awesome universe have done this?

2. Would mortal men have a reason for making this stuff up?

When I do this the answer is crystal clear to me - No, an all-wise, all-intelligent, creator of this universe would not have been this petty. And - Yes, this is precisely what mortal men would make up if they wanted to instill guilt, fear, and obedience into the masses.

To me it’s crystal clear that this is the precisely what men would make up, and not at all indicative of the way any supreme God would behave.

So it’s not that I don’t understand the Bible MorningSong. It’s simply that I find it unbelievable that a genuinely all-wise creator would behave in a way that these stories describe.

I just don’t believe that God is that crude. I understand what the stories claim. They make ‘sense’ within the myth. What I’m saying is that they make no sense with respect to real life. I don’t believe that the real creator of this universe could be the way the Bible describes. That’s where I’m coming from.

The intelligence just isn’t there. I’ve studied how atoms work, and trust me, the God who designed the atoms would not be as petty as the God described in the Bible. The solutions to the problems in the Bible just aren’t intelligent enough. That can’t be of the same God who designed the atoms.

That's how I feel about it.

That's just my personal opinion, but it's the way I feel.

Jb.


It is late so this will be short. The penalty of breaking the law was death.

Like in our society.

All were guilty of this breaking of the law then and now.Then ( before Yahshua) they made a covenant with blood as a agreement.

Yahshua's death had way more meaning than a sacrafice. For 1 when this new agreement come with his death. The contract of the old was annulled. In other words Israel has always been married to Yahweh.In a marraige we say the vows till death do we part. The remarriage is allowed. Yahshua's death allows a new marraige. Which is talked about in the NT quite a bit.

The blood sacrafices of animals was a learning process to teach the Israelites that sin brings death. So it was constant.

But the blood of animals no way compares to an offering of Yahweh's son who did it willingly. This also is an example for us. Yahshua said..thier is no better friend than one who would die for you. He showed this to us by example.

Blood sacrafices are not done today because at Pentecost we became the living temple made without hands where Yahweh's spirit is to dwell.

This probally did not help much either but i will get back when i am not so tired and try to do better..Shalom..Miles

And I respect you for just being honest about the way you feel, Abra.

Jesus or
Yeshua's Son......the same.....we just call him Jesus.

Same difference.

Messianic Jews call Jesus Yesua Hammeshiah.

Spanish people call Him Jesu Christo.

Some others just Call Jesus Emanuel.

Other languages pronounce Jesus in their own language.

And God is also known by other Names :

God also goes by

Jehovah Jireh ,God our provider...

Jehovah Ropha ,God our Healer....

Jehovah Shalom , God our Peace...

just to name a few.....

But NOWHERE does any follower and believer in Jesus Christ , go around EVER calling Jesus ,Satan's Angel of Light, Miles....like you did....
and yet....
you also go around quoting bible scripture....like you do...
yet.....
you ALSO deny you are a christian.
??

So therefore, Miles....once again....and no offense...and I also will close with this... ..
your voice is that of a stranger to me, and the voice of a stranger I will not follow.

Sorry.

oh yes that is true. but you have no idea what u are saying. the ye is because the jews refuse to accept him as having his fathers name in him. JC and Yahshua are not the same. If you would study instead of being content that your preacher says you are saved you might really learn something. If I am so wrong how come no one on here can PROVE me wrong. I can PROVE christianty as FALSE.