but the circle is starting with the OP's post about that woman.

Let's apply some logical thinking on this, taking statements at face value:

1)Claims 'religious reasons' in not using any form of contraceptives.

Subscribing and following a set religion's parameters, requires evaluation of personal actions to be 'right' or 'wrong' Isn't the determination of 'right' and 'wrong' (no matter if the criteria is flawed or not by our personal standards) a definition of functioning mental state? You are declared non-functional, if you cannot determine the difference by any sort of rationality?

2)Admits that 'party drinking' was part of the problem.
Acknowledging a causing factor in past history to a problem would seem to me, demonstrate the ability to apply 'cause and effect' thinking. Again, rationalizing "If I do wrong there, it causes wrong over here" Is not this determination, coupled with the distinguisher of 'right' and 'wrong' indicative of competent mental function by most standards?

Basing some logic on the above, would it not be reasonable to find the woman mentally competent, to at least some level?

Or perhaps...just perhaps - might a reasonable explanation for this situation - is the woman is currently making up b.s. to cover the fact she either lacks sufficient knowledge to deal with her situation, and requires help OR:
Is just full of b.s., and enjoys being a welfare queen, and scamming the dollars as one of my sisters used to. (Until she received sufficient motivational a$$-kicks from her group of brothers)

personally - At the end of the day - I would wager on #2.

that was my point of posting the contraction that dragoness made that I was hoping she would address

Don't hold your breath, YR.

i'm not...trust me

YR - Oh...I got it, even though I read very fast through it. Just figured I would 'repost' in my fashion, to see if she can rise to the challenge.

Oh, you and Lilith, having more experience in that sort of 'mental condition' area are more than welcome to correct my logic there, if needed.
I will freely admit my 'training' comes from shall we say - hands on experience - than any form of formalized function. I actually welcome corrections if done in a logical manner, without cut/paste quotes from other biased sources.

my posts were based on first hand experience from either myself or with my sister or from those I KNOW are abusing the system. lilth has the formal training that I would defer to

Well if she wasn't mentally ill before having 12 kids she should be good and crazy after....

AMEN !!!

i just still don't see why the taxes should have to support her. helping someone is one thing...but not to support her

Well I think if she is to mentally ill to be a functional part of society, what in the world are they thinking letting her raise a bunch of kids? They say motherhood is the hardest job in the world so if she can't function in the work force, how could she possibly be a reliable, responsible parent?

i agree with you and if she isn't so mentally ill then she can go to work and TRY to support her children with or without the dads. THEN i would be fine with HELPING them. i don't like paying for other peoples children when it's a result of not wanting to work or not taking responsibility for their actions. I have struggle supporting my own son and it's hard enough. I would prefer that taxes would go for something else. it need to be used to help people...not abuse it.

I agree. Probably one of the reasons I don't have any kids yet.

Well Rose I would agree with you except for one thing, with 12 kids it is too late. I know people will yell "discrimination" but I sure would not hire her, she has shown that she is not responsable by any stretch of the imagination. There is no way she could make enough to pay for a sitter, even if she could find a job. 12 kids IS a full time job, one she obviously isn't up to if she already has a grandchild. So when things get to this point, the choices are very few. What can be done at this point?

Wow - I am so looking forward to the Camelot answer from Dragon on that one!

Option A - she is mentally unfit. So why is she allowed to keep and create more kids that she cannot possibly raise?

Option B - she is mentally fit, so why is she permitted to sit around and collect $, without doing anything other than popping out kids? why should the $ go to day-care expenses, and make her work for a living and support?

Option C -the highly radical idea: She is mentally fit, and shirking responsibilities. The state gives her Option B, or takes the children, and garnishes the wages (as best as is possible, it is imperfect at best) of her and all the fathers. Court-mandated paternity tests to confirm.
State then places children in (hopefully) better homes.

Well Rose I would agree with you except for one thing, with 12 kids it is too late. I know people will yell "discrimination" but I sure would not hire her, she has shown that she is not responsable by any stretch of the imagination. There is no way she could make enough to pay for a sitter, even if she could find a job. 12 kids IS a full time job, one she obviously isn't up to if she already has a grandchild. So when things get to this point, the choices are very few. What can be done at this point?

well not all of them are still babies. but employers can't use that as a reason. not sure they can even ask. but I agree that it should have been stopped along time ago because the cycle of having babies before they are ready is starting and mom needs to take responsibility. i'm not against HELPING her...just not supporting

Yeah sure....help educate her, help educate her children, help them to get a hand up in some manner! Not support them though!!