Community > Posts By > Thomas3474

 
Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 08:06 PM
Nov,2010 The Treasury, which holds a 60.8 percent stake in GM as a result of its $50 billion bailout, will take a loss of up to $4.9 billion on its sale of shares in the IPO.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20100904/tbs-business-us-gm-ipo-7318940.html


The private industry can invest in GM and have a stake in their profits or losses.The Federal government should stay out of it.

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=284321

Aug,2010 WASHINGTON: Troubled US mortgage firm Freddie Mac yesterday reported a second quarter net loss of $6 billion and sought another $1.8bn from the Treasury to contain the red ink.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 07:55 PM


Obama is probably missing his Muslim friends overseas.After that beating he took by the American voters he needs a hug from some radicals.Lord knows his America sucks,anti military,American people are stupid cronies including Pelosi won't be around to support him anymore and he will have to fly overseas just to find supporters.


Can we do it?We just did!


Uh, India is more Budda and Hindu...pffft. The rest is just more absurd myopeon speak.





I'm sure Obama can find a few of his buddy radicals out of that 138 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_India

Islam is second-most practiced religion in the Republic of India after Hinduism, with more than 13.4% of the country's population (over 138 million as per 2001 census).

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Thu 11/04/10 07:51 PM
I checked to see how expensive a room is at the Taj Mahal.Rates start at $850.00 American and go to $2047.00 for one night.

Seems like Obama is giving India a stimulus.

Something else to consider about that article.They maybe quoting India dollars not American.American dollars would peg the cost at around 100,000,000.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 07:41 PM
200 million does seem a bit excessive.Then again you are dealing with a guy who has spent more money then any President in history.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 07:29 PM
Obama is probably missing his Muslim friends overseas.After that beating he took by the American voters he needs a hug from some radicals.Lord knows his America sucks,anti military,American people are stupid cronies including Pelosi won't be around to support him anymore and he will have to fly overseas just to find supporters.


Can we do it?We just did!

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 07:19 PM
Like the article says.Once you find the evidence of this tea party racism we would love to see it.Because all I see is millions of people wanting a better life for everyone.Even Obamas home state went Red.If that doesn't speak volumes I don't know what does.

Thomas3474's photo
Thu 11/04/10 05:57 PM
I figured this article would be perfect considering the Tea party people on this site have been called racists no less than 100 times.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/7122482_opinion_accusations_of_tea_party_racism_lose_traction_with_voters


How quickly things move in the age of communication. America voted only two days ago and yet the news of the Democrats' defeat seems already old. If a person made a list of things which went wrong two days ago for Democrats and Progressives, you would have to include one item that appears on the list of things that went right for President Obama in 2008: the mainstream media.

The big push for Republicans came when network and cable news shows like MSNBC and CNN discovered that the Tea Parties were the sine qua non enabling them to paint Republicans as a bunch of wild-eyed, right-wing racists. With the advent of Tea Party demonstrations around the country, the mainstream media's daily bombardment could have flattened a small country. Shortly thereafter, the game was up for Democrats, though it would be a long time before they noticed.

The mainstream media theme was simple, brought up from moribund left-wing "alternative" websites and given new life by Nielsen motivated cable broadcasters. Tea Partiers were racists. Tea Partiers were gun-toting, bible thumping extremists. Tea Partiers didn't understand economics (as if Obama's economic team did). Tea Parties even did weird sexual things popularized in the slang of the gay community.

Unfortunately for Democrat incumbents, the mainstream media coverage couldn't film much of anything supporting the progressive-left cause célèbre hypothesis advanced by people like Chris Matthews, Rachel Maddow, Larry O'Donnell and even by self-consciously "serious" journalists like Cooper Anderson.

The mass associative disorder afflicting media liberals didn't translate to votes for Democrats . In fact, the Tea Parties pulled many Democrats and independents into its folds, and some minorities.

It's a prevailing media myth that one party is more culturally enlightened than another. Try to imagine NBC reporter Chuck Todd and Chris Matthews sharing an apartment in Bushwick and trying to fit in with some boys from the 'hood to joke about the "white boy club," as Matthews did during his election coverage.

The mainstream media has for a long time tried to draw conclusions first, broadcast those conclusions widely, and then provide whatever video support it could. But people just didn't buy it in 2010, as the lockstep and slow-moving mainstream media follows the dinosaur into extinction.

By now, almost everyone understands that many African-Americans tend to think as Republicans but are habituated to vote Democrat. If Democrats didn't work so hard at keeping African-American communities in a state of dependency, African-Americans would break from the party in droves.

In 2006, I did a bit of work for Lynn Swann's campaign against Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell. Swann lost, receiving a disappointing 13 percent of the African-American vote. During that election, one Democrat campaign manager was fired for demeaning Swann by referring to him as a "rich white guy."

For a recent example, consider CNN's coverage of the Nov. 2 elections. CNN's coverage was reasonably balanced, perhaps too well populated, and featured a breadth of political opinion ranging from Bill Bennett to Donna Brazile. When Democrat Brazile had the temerity to applaud black Republican Tim Scott, the victor in South Carolina's 1st District, the left-liberal Democrats on the panel booed.

Progressives will sneer and the term "token black" will still be bandied about by the ignorati on progressive-left blogs. However, the several victories by Republican minority Tea Party candidates detailed in the Yahoo! News story, "Minorities ride GOP wave to groundbreaking wins," undermines this tired trope.

This is not to say that bigotry magically disappeared from the world in 2010. But the accusation of "racism" directed against one party has lost traction with the electorate.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 07:26 PM
At least when Obama says the Republicans are preventing laws from being passed there will be some truth in it now.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 04:58 PM


See, right there. That tells me that you 1) Haven't read the gospels or 2) Are trying to be offensive. Per the Gospels and Jesus himself, he is the only God we have ever known. We only know of God the father through His interactions with Jesus. Jesus isn't a demigod, Jesus is God.


These fables clearly have Jesus being born of a human woman and conceived by God. That makes Jesus a demigod. It's not meant to be offensive. It's simply a FACT of this particular mythology.



I don't see how "Yes officer, I saw the speed limit sign, but I didn't believe it" is a good defense. The Bible says repeatedly that you must have faith. What would your defense be when Jesus said something like this: "You expect me to believe that you would have accepted me as the creator of the universe, but you couldn't believe in a global flood? You would have believed that I created a billion galaxies with a billion stars each, life and the very laws of physics, but you couldn't believe that I could flood a tiny marble of a planet?"


This is utterly absurd.

It's not that I don't believe an all-powerful God "could" flood a measly old planet. The FACT is that the geological scientific evidence shows otherwise. No such global flood to that extent could have happened on Planet Earth during the span of human existence without leaving a very profound mark. In fact, the evidence is completely to the contrary. It would be impossible for evidence that does exist, to exist, if such a flood had actually occurred.

Moreover, it's not just the physics of the flood that's at question here. There are two truly profound problems with this story.

First, it doesn't fit in with a God who supposedly has a PLAN. Was his PLAN to drown out sinners? Or was his PLAN to sacrifice himself to pay for the sins of man. It makes no sense to have a God who "experiments" with different approaches to dealing with sinners.

Secondly, you yourself just made the second point. Could an all-powerful God flood a planet? Of course he could. However the FACT remains that he could have dealt with the problem in a myriad of other ways too. Far WISER ways.

Why bother flooding a planet when he could simply make all those sinners just disappear? Or turn them into pillars of salt, like he did to Lot's wife. Or give them fatal heart attacks. Heck they were supposedly having sex like crazy anyway, giving them heart attacks would have been easy. laugh

Instead of having Noah waste his time building an ark, he could have had Noah building nurseries to raise the young children and babies, and then just did away with all the sinning adults.

Or, if he wanted to get rid of that genetic line altogether why not just make them all sterile. God supposedly has infinite patience. Within a single generation they'd all be dead naturally and there wouldn't have been any young children or babies to drown.

The point being Spider, that the FLOOD myth is simply stupid.

So I would have to respond to Jesus by saying, "Why do you expect me to believe that your stupid?" Of course, if he really did the flood as the Bible says then Jesus really is stupid so it would be a moot question.



I'm sorry, but when you are told that faith is required for salvation and you reject Christianity because you can't believe certain events in the Bible really happened, it takes the bottom out of your case. You were already told that faith would be required, so finding something unbelievable wouldn't be a defense.


You don't need to be sorry. The very fact that the authors of the bible demand that we must have FAITH that they speak for God is precisely the best reason to reject them.

All they are basically doing is saying, "Hey look we know that we didn't do very good making up these stories, so we're going to have to ask that you DON'T question them and just simply have FAITH".

I mean, come on, that's all the more reason to reject it as utterly absurd.

If it were from a genuinely intelligent God that God wouldn't need to ASK you to have FAITH, he would simply CONVINCE you of it.

This is the same thing with Jesus. If Jesus truly was God (which I don't believe for one second that he was), then all he would have had to do is write the greatest work of literature ever written, penned in his own hand, that everyone who reads it would just stand in awe at his absolute and complete wisdom.

After all, we're talking about the creator of the universe here, so this would have been a trivial task at best.

But, no, that's not what we have here at all. In fact, Jesus didn't even bother to write down a single solitary jot. Everything we have about Jesus is total gossip hearsay and it's FAR from special or impressive. In fact, it's so unimpressive that the Jews themselves didn't even buy into it.

There isn't a single bit of wisdom that Jesus taught that can't be found in either common sense, or the teachings of Buddha.

In fact it's so mundane, and ambiguous, and filled with such blatant contradictions, that even the Christian can't agree on what it says precisely. The Catholics believe one thing, and the Protestant believe another, and they can't even agree with each other.

This religion is so scatterbrain that no one could be blamed for not believing it.




I really don't see the point debating with you since you call everything we post wrong,fables,and lies.


Yet when it comes to your side of the issue you post some other bible verse and say "see my side is correct because of what God said".


This is debating at it's very worst.Trying to debate with someone who denies everything as false yet takes the same words later and says it has to be true.

There really is no point debating you anymore.You are only going to hear what you want to hear and pass everything else off as irrelevant.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:40 PM


I have done the first verse for you.I am not going to waste time with the other hundreds.


No, of course you won't, because most of them aren't even quotes of Jesus.

Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Matthew isn't even attempting to claim that Jesus said this. I looked up some others too which were basically the same type of narrative writings.

So there, I did one for you. whoa

I'll leave it up to you to correct the rest of your false claims.

Besides, it's actually a false claim to claim that Jesus is 'quoted' in the Bible anyway. Clearly these men could put whatever words they want in the dead Jesus' mouth. They were using him as a dead marionette doll to make a case for their own beliefs and rumors.

So once again, it's not impressive at all.

Jesus isn't even in the Bible actually.




Here is partial listing of Jesus quoting from the Old testament.I could not copy and paste the bible quotes but they are there along with many more.


http://freespace.virgin.net/dick.worth/Quotes.htm



Does not the Scripture say that the Christ will come from David's family and from Bethlehem, the town where David lived?

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?"

This is the one about whom it is written: 'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'

You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honour your father and mother.'

Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.'

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up. ... If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.

Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honour me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

"It is written," he said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"

Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvellous in our eyes'? He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfilment.'

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:56 AM

It is fine to build a church using gold,silver,etc,as long as you are using the church to promote and preach the Holy bible and to worship the father.What this verse is talking about is having a expensive church that looks good,is expensive,but is not preaching the truth.

A good example would be these churches that have homosexual pastors.It won't matter how big or expensive they are.When it comes to judgment by fire their works will be burned up because they are not preaching the Holy bible and telling lies.


ABOUT THE DIVORCE ISSUE:

Matthew 19
7 They said to Him, "Why then did MOSES command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"
8 He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.

Mark 10
10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter.
11 So He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her.
12 "And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Luke 16
18 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

MATTHEW 5
32 "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason - - - - - causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Luke 16
18 "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Mark 10
11 So He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her.
12 "And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."


Matthew 5
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill

Leviticus 20:10
"The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."


I don’t think these are ALL the places that discuss DIVORCE though.
So how many churches ABSOLUTELY refuse to honor divorces, or marry people after they’ve been divorced?

Since homosexuals are ostracized from many Christian communities for fear that they might be guilty by association – I can only guess that all those churches and ALL their congregations will be joining the LGBT in hell.




Leviticus 20:10 is talking about a Old testament law.Jesus died for that sin and all sins.We can not be put to death for a sin already paid for by Jesus.It is null and void.However committing adultery is still a sin and a very serious sin as it is a commandment.

There is no where in the bible that says people can not be married again after committing adultery.If someone confesses to God that they committed adultery and repents of their sins and asks for forgiveness are we supposed to deny them that privilege?Of course not.If God forgives them then we will also.

However if this person is a unrepentant adulterer,and will not repent,I don't think any church would marry this person or would associate with this person.


I would not want to be part of a church with unrepentant sinners including homosexuals.I honestly don't see why homosexuals get a free pass with their unrepentant lifestyle.The church would never tolerate a priest if he was a drunk or was seen coming out of strip clubs.You hear of these stories of priests getting caught with a prostitute and they are banned from ever sitting foot in their church again.They are fired and kicked out forever.

Yet homosexuals are just fine.Never mind the fact that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was the only city that upset God so much he used fire to destroy it.Never mind the fact that homosexuality is mentioned in both the Old testament and New testament as wrong.

I do feel sorry for those churches who call homosexuality good.They are playing a dangerous game.They will be never be forgiven of that unforgivable sin Jesus spoke of in this life or the next one.Such a terrible price to pay.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:27 AM
http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm


The Reagan tax cuts, like similar measures enacted in the 1920s and 1960s, showed that reducing excessive tax rates stimulates growth, reduces tax avoidance, and can increase the amount and share of tax payments generated by the rich. High top tax rates can induce counterproductive behavior and suppress revenues, factors that are usually missed or understated in government static revenue analysis. Furthermore, the key assumption of static revenue analysis that economic growth is not affected by tax changes is di sproved by the experience of previous tax reduction programs. There is little reason to expect static revenue analysis to evaluate the economic or distributional effects of current tax reform proposals much better than it evaluated the Reagan tax program 15 years ago.

HOW DID REAGAN'S POLICIES AFFECT ECONOMIC GROWTH?

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2001/03/The-Real-Reagan-Economic-Record

Despite the steep recession in 1982--brought on by tight money policies that were instituted to squeeze out the historic inflation level of the late 1970s--by 1983, the Reagan policies of reducing taxes, spending, regulation, and inflation were in place. The result was unprecedented economic growth:
This economic boom lasted 92 months without a recession, from November 1982 to July 1990, the longest period of sustained growth during peacetime and the second-longest period of sustained growth in U.S. history. The growth in the economy lasted more than twice as long as the average period of expansions since World War II.10
The American economy grew by about one-third in real inflation-adjusted terms. This was the equivalent of adding the entire economy of East and West Germany or two-thirds of Japan's economy to the U.S. economy.11
From 1950 to 1973, real economic growth in the U.S. economy averaged 3.6 percent per year. From 1973 to 1982, it averaged only 1.6 percent. The Reagan economic boom restored the more usual growth rate as the economy averaged 3.5 percent in real growth from the beginning of 1983 to the end of 1990.12

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:21 AM

i don't get why you guys defend the upper class so much.
please explain.


Because it is the upper class that owns the majority of the business that employ the people of this great country.You have any idea what would happen if Microsoft,Boeing,Caterpillar,and many of these massive companies took off and left town?Millions of people unemployed and billions of dollars in tax revenue gone.

I am no fan of the rich but I do not see how it is good for this country to take away 40% of their money in taxes for the Government to piss away paying illegals welfare.The more you tax them and the more money you take away the more they stop hiring,start laying off,and move to another country.A company making billions is a good thing for everyone.The more they make the more they can expand and the more they can hire and buy things.

You can say tax the rich to death.Guess what?The rich are going to give you a layoff notice and pack up and leave your town and move to some other country where they can grow instead of getting robbed every day.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:09 AM



So where you are getting conflicts between Jesus and the Old testament I have no idea.Some of the Jews may have rejected Jesus but they should have been smart enough to realize Jesus was the messiah as the majority of the Jews who saw him did.When Jesus spoke bible verses everything was from the Old testament.You will not find a single bible verse where Jesus said God was wrong for his laws and commandments.


Jesus NEVER - EVER - spoke bible verses, there was no such thing as the "Old Testament". So what was Jesus talking about? What was he referring to when he spoke about the "Law"?

Was there more than one "Law" that Jews followed?

Is there ANYWHERE in the bible that Jesus 'dismissed' any "Law" or suggested that any "Law" would no longer be valid becasue of his coming?

Lots of questions, but I would think believers would have the answers.





When I talk about the Old testament I am speaking about the Hebrew bible used by the Jews before Jesus was born.The Old testament contains the 39 books of Hebrew Scripture.I am calling the Hebrew bible the Old testament just to make things simple since we are talking about Christianity not Judaism.


The Jews had over 613 biblical laws that they followed.

Jesus did quote the Old testament(aka Hebrew bible,aka Tanakh)And Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.

Here is a partial list of Old testament bible verse spoken by Jesus which there is hundreds.

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-old-testament-quoted-by-jesus-and-apostles.htm


http://freespace.virgin.net/dick.worth/Quotes.htm

Pro 11:31
1 Pet 4:18

Pro 25:21-22
Rom 12:20

Pro 26:11
2 Pet 2:22

Isa 1:9
Rom 9:29

Isa 6:9-10
Matt 13:14-15, Mark 4:12, Acts 28:26-27

Isa 6:9
Luke 8:10

Isa 6:10
Joh 12:40

Isa 7:14
Matt, 1:23

Isa 8:12-13
1 Pet 3:14-15

Isa 8:17-18
Heb 2:13

Isa 8:23-9:1
Matt 4:15-16

Isa 11:10
Rom 15:12

Isa 13:10
Matt 24:29, Mark 13:24-25

Isa 34:4
Luke 21:26

Isa 22:13
1 Co 15:32

Isa 25:8
1 Co 15:54, Rev 7:17

Isa 26:19
Matt 11:5

Isa 35:5-6
Luke 7:22

Isa 26:20
Heb 10:37-38

Isa 28:11-12
1 Co 14:21

Isa 29:13
Matt 15:8-9, Mark 1:3, Joh 1:23

Isa 40:6-8
1 Pet 1:24-25

Isa 40:13
Rom 11:34, 1 Co 2:16

Isa 42:1-4
Matt 12:18-21

Isa 45:23
Rom 14:11

Isa 49:6
Acts 13:47

Isa 49:8
2 Co 6:2

Isa 52:5
Rom 2:24

Isa 52:7
Rom 10:15

Isa 52:11
2 Co 6:17

Isa 52:15
Rom 15:21

Isa 53:1
Joh 12:38, Rom 8:17

Isa 53:7-8
Acts 8:32-33

Isa 53:9
1 Pet 2:23

Isa 53:12
Luke 22:37

Isa 54:1
Gal 4:27

Isa 54:13
Joh 6:45

Isa 55:3
Acts 13:34

Isa 55:10
2 Co 9:10

Isa 56:7
Matt 21:13

Jer 7:11
Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46

Isa 59:7-8
Rom 3:15-17

Isa 59:20-21
Rom 11:26-27

Isa 61:1-2
Luke 4:18-19

Isa 62:11
Matt 21:5

Isa 64:3
1 Co 2:9
Isa 65:1-2
Rom10:10-21

Isa 65:17
2 Pet 3:13

Isa 66:1-2
Acts 7:49-50

Jer 5:21
Mark 8:18

Jer 9:23
1 Co 1:31, 2 Co 10:17

Jer31:15
Matt 2:18

Jer 31:31-34
Heb 8:8-12

Ezk 11:20
Rev 21:7

Ezk 37:5, 10
Rev 11:11

Dan 3:6
Matt13:42, 50

Dan 7:13
Matt 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26,14:62, Luke 21:27,22:69

Dan 9:27
Matt 24:15

Dan 11:31
Mark 13:14

Hos 2:1, 3
Rom 9:25-28

Hos 6:6
Matt 9:13, Matt 12:7

Hos 10:8
Luke 23:30, Rev 6:16

Hos 11:1
Matt 2:15

Hos 13:14
1 Co 15:55

Joel 3:1-5
Acts 2:17-21, Rom 10:13

Amos 5:25-27
Acts 7:42-43

Amos 9:11-12
Acts 15:16-17

Jonah 2:1
Matt 12:40

Mic 5:1
Matt 2:6

Mic 7:6
Matt 10:35-36

Hab2:3-4
Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11

Hab 1:5
Acts 13:41

Hag 2:6, 21
Heb 12:26

Zac 8:16
Eph 4:25

Zech 9:9
Joh 12:15

Zac 11:12-13
Matt 27:9-10

Zac 12:10
Joh 19:37

Zac 13:7
Matt 26:31, Mark 14:27

Mal 1:2-3
Rom 9:13

Mal 3:1
Matt 11:10, Mark 1:2,Luke 7:27

Mal 3:23-24
Matt 17:10-11



Baloney. This is false information.

You said that these are things the Jesus was quoted as saying but a lot of these are not attributed to Jesus at all. On the contrary they are narrations by these authors who are attempting to make a case that Jesus was "The Christ".

I looked up several of the Matthew quotes because I was highly suspicious of this and sure enough that's what they were.

Moreover, the whole book of Matthew was ultimately written by Matthew. I personally don't trust these authors to have spoken for Jesus verbatim. Matthew was clearly hard-pressed to make his case, so I wouldn't put it past him at all to interject, or "interpret" what he thought Jesus might have meant, and simply use his own words to slant things to better fit his own theories and beliefs.

This is a HUGE problem with using the Bible to claim that Jesus said this, or Jesus said that. The bottom line is that the Bible does not contain a single solitary word from Jesus himself. It's all hearsay, and the entire thing was written by authors who clearly had a desperate agenda to make out like Jesus was their "Christ".

So this is totally unimpressive.


I have done the first verse for you.I am not going to waste time with the other hundreds.


Malachi 1:2-3 Old testament

Israel Doubts God’s Love
2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.

“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.”

Jesus said:

Romans 9:13

3As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Thomas3474's photo
Wed 11/03/10 12:06 AM


There is no heaven or salvation for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ.This would include the Jews of this world.The bible says EVERYONE will hear the word and everyone will have the chance to be saved no matter where they are in the world.This is one of the fullfilments before the rapture can start.


This is utterly absurd.

How can any rational human being believe in such nonsense?

This religion started out with a God who was supposedly concerned with obedience, and it ended up being about a God who is solely interested in what someone believes.

It's clearly a train-wrecked mythology.

This type of thing can only be a man-made religion for the purpose of claiming extreme religious superiority in the "My God can beat up your God" wars.

Like little kids arguing, and the one kid finally says to the other, "Either accept my God as the only God or DIE!"

It's truly as silly as two children arguing like this.

And we know that there was definite human incentives for people to hold their God above all others. In fact we see this very thing today in all the Abrahamic religions. Christianity is the epitome of this sort of religious arrogance and bigotry.

"Our God is the only way to heaven and if you don't believe in our God and join our bigotry wagon you will be cast into a lake of fire!"

Does this even sound remotely divine?

Be honest. Does this sound divine? spock

Or does this sound like human arrogance? huh



Well half the world believes it and I would say those people who do are intelligent,well informed and live in well developed countries like Europe and the USA.

What would be divine if you were God?Everyone goes to heaven even if they spend their entire life cursing you and your people?Are you seriously going to tell me in your daily life you actually think like this?You look at everyone like they are all saints walking around the streets and no matter what their actions in the end everyone is treated the same?

You think these Muslims blowing everyone to pieces should sit next to you in heaven and get the same rewards everyone else has?

That does sound absurd and arrogance.It sounds absurd because the world has never worked that way no matter what you believe.


I find it extremely ironic that a simple "I believe" in your mind is just way to hard for most people to do.It is not like Christians demand you walk 500 miles somewhere and live in a convent.All you have to do is say a few simple words.

Yet this is just so complicated,and so hard,and so wrong,and so so everything blah,blah,blah.

Give me a break.God couldn't have made it any more simpler.

Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/02/10 11:56 PM



Is there ANYWHERE in the bible that Jesus 'dismissed' any "Law" or suggested that any "Law" would no longer be valid becasue of his coming?

Lots of questions, but I would think believers would have the answers.





As far as I know Jesus never made any law null and void or did he change any laws.He did give some additions to the law such as saying...

Matthew 5:27-32

27 You have heard that it was said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.” 28 But I am indeed saying to you that every one who looks at a woman to want her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matthew 5:43
(Not sure if this was a law.I don't believe it was)

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.


"He did however did get a lot of anger for doing things on the Sabbath such as healing people which the Jews considered work which was forbidden.

(Mark 3:1-6)

1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. 6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.



As far as Old testament laws being void after Jesus died this is true.Nearly all the Old testament laws dealt with punishment because of sins including death.Since Jesus died for sins it would no longer be valid to kill someone because of their sins because there was no justification for it.Jesus had died and payed the price for everyones sins and from that moment on nobody could be accused of things such as adultery and murder and the church demand they die for it.The death of Jesus was enough and it was wrong to take his death in vain by killing someone because of sin.

When I hear "your a Christian but eat pork"or "your a Christian and cut your hair" is any of this relevant after Christ died?No because Jesus fulfilled the laws which completed them and made them no longer applicable to us.We can not break laws which have no consequences for breaking them.

Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/02/10 11:33 PM

So where you are getting conflicts between Jesus and the Old testament I have no idea.Some of the Jews may have rejected Jesus but they should have been smart enough to realize Jesus was the messiah as the majority of the Jews who saw him did.When Jesus spoke bible verses everything was from the Old testament.You will not find a single bible verse where Jesus said God was wrong for his laws and commandments.


Jesus NEVER - EVER - spoke bible verses, there was no such thing as the "Old Testament". So what was Jesus talking about? What was he referring to when he spoke about the "Law"?

Was there more than one "Law" that Jews followed?

Is there ANYWHERE in the bible that Jesus 'dismissed' any "Law" or suggested that any "Law" would no longer be valid becasue of his coming?

Lots of questions, but I would think believers would have the answers.





When I talk about the Old testament I am speaking about the Hebrew bible used by the Jews before Jesus was born.The Old testament contains the 39 books of Hebrew Scripture.I am calling the Hebrew bible the Old testament just to make things simple since we are talking about Christianity not Judaism.


The Jews had over 613 biblical laws that they followed.

Jesus did quote the Old testament(aka Hebrew bible,aka Tanakh)And Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.

Here is a partial list of Old testament bible verse spoken by Jesus which there is hundreds.

http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-old-testament-quoted-by-jesus-and-apostles.htm


http://freespace.virgin.net/dick.worth/Quotes.htm

Pro 11:31
1 Pet 4:18

Pro 25:21-22
Rom 12:20

Pro 26:11
2 Pet 2:22

Isa 1:9
Rom 9:29

Isa 6:9-10
Matt 13:14-15, Mark 4:12, Acts 28:26-27

Isa 6:9
Luke 8:10

Isa 6:10
Joh 12:40

Isa 7:14
Matt, 1:23

Isa 8:12-13
1 Pet 3:14-15

Isa 8:17-18
Heb 2:13

Isa 8:23-9:1
Matt 4:15-16

Isa 11:10
Rom 15:12

Isa 13:10
Matt 24:29, Mark 13:24-25

Isa 34:4
Luke 21:26

Isa 22:13
1 Co 15:32

Isa 25:8
1 Co 15:54, Rev 7:17

Isa 26:19
Matt 11:5

Isa 35:5-6
Luke 7:22

Isa 26:20
Heb 10:37-38

Isa 28:11-12
1 Co 14:21

Isa 29:13
Matt 15:8-9, Mark 1:3, Joh 1:23

Isa 40:6-8
1 Pet 1:24-25

Isa 40:13
Rom 11:34, 1 Co 2:16

Isa 42:1-4
Matt 12:18-21

Isa 45:23
Rom 14:11

Isa 49:6
Acts 13:47

Isa 49:8
2 Co 6:2

Isa 52:5
Rom 2:24

Isa 52:7
Rom 10:15

Isa 52:11
2 Co 6:17

Isa 52:15
Rom 15:21

Isa 53:1
Joh 12:38, Rom 8:17

Isa 53:7-8
Acts 8:32-33

Isa 53:9
1 Pet 2:23

Isa 53:12
Luke 22:37

Isa 54:1
Gal 4:27

Isa 54:13
Joh 6:45

Isa 55:3
Acts 13:34

Isa 55:10
2 Co 9:10

Isa 56:7
Matt 21:13

Jer 7:11
Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46

Isa 59:7-8
Rom 3:15-17

Isa 59:20-21
Rom 11:26-27

Isa 61:1-2
Luke 4:18-19

Isa 62:11
Matt 21:5

Isa 64:3
1 Co 2:9
Isa 65:1-2
Rom10:10-21

Isa 65:17
2 Pet 3:13

Isa 66:1-2
Acts 7:49-50

Jer 5:21
Mark 8:18

Jer 9:23
1 Co 1:31, 2 Co 10:17

Jer31:15
Matt 2:18

Jer 31:31-34
Heb 8:8-12

Ezk 11:20
Rev 21:7

Ezk 37:5, 10
Rev 11:11

Dan 3:6
Matt13:42, 50

Dan 7:13
Matt 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26,14:62, Luke 21:27,22:69

Dan 9:27
Matt 24:15

Dan 11:31
Mark 13:14

Hos 2:1, 3
Rom 9:25-28

Hos 6:6
Matt 9:13, Matt 12:7

Hos 10:8
Luke 23:30, Rev 6:16

Hos 11:1
Matt 2:15

Hos 13:14
1 Co 15:55

Joel 3:1-5
Acts 2:17-21, Rom 10:13

Amos 5:25-27
Acts 7:42-43

Amos 9:11-12
Acts 15:16-17

Jonah 2:1
Matt 12:40

Mic 5:1
Matt 2:6

Mic 7:6
Matt 10:35-36

Hab2:3-4
Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11

Hab 1:5
Acts 13:41

Hag 2:6, 21
Heb 12:26

Zac 8:16
Eph 4:25

Zech 9:9
Joh 12:15

Zac 11:12-13
Matt 27:9-10

Zac 12:10
Joh 19:37

Zac 13:7
Matt 26:31, Mark 14:27

Mal 1:2-3
Rom 9:13

Mal 3:1
Matt 11:10, Mark 1:2,Luke 7:27

Mal 3:23-24
Matt 17:10-11



Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/02/10 11:17 PM

Christians and Jews believe the earth is around 6,000 years old.Considering God mad the first man and woman everyone born after that time probably would have heard of the bible and God.


Not all Christians & Jews, probably not even most, believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Of course you may be one of the fundamentalists I was referring to in the OP. Are you?


Deuteronomy 1:39 – God is telling the wondering Mosaic Jews that with few expections, they will not live to see the ‘promised’ land. The land God had told them would be theirs (he didn’t mean heaven). Only the

39Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.


Not in the Isaiah verse either

13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and[d] will call him Immanuel.[e] 15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. 16 But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. 17 The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.”


In Numbers 14 – again God is railing against those who refused to obey and told them that only the young under 20 will be allowed to see the promised land.

Not one of the verses you offered deals with the salvation of those I meantioned? When you have some time though I would like to see those versus that deal with the question I posed.




I do believe the earth is only 6,000 years old.I think just looking at population increases which have seen well over a billion people in just a 100 years is reason to believe the earth couldn't be thousands or millions of years old.If there was people here over 100,000 years ago simple math would tell you there would be trillions of people alive today.There would also be trillions of grave stones and skeletons in the ground yet there is few to be found.You also have solid records going back thousands of years including the works of the Egyptians.How come we have 6,000 years of records and then nothing at all?How come we have buildings going back thousands of years and then nothing?Overnight we went from a bunch of knuckle dragging apes to building pyramids and living in houses?

Sorry but it makes much more sense to look at 6,000 years until now.Everything makes a lot more sense.



There is no heaven or salvation for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ.This would include the Jews of this world.The bible says EVERYONE will hear the word and everyone will have the chance to be saved no matter where they are in the world.This is one of the fullfilments before the rapture can start.


Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Romans 10:18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.


Concerning children


But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant, and they said to him, “Do you hear what these are saying?” And Jesus said to them, “Yes; have you never read, “‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babies you have prepared praise’?”
(Matthew 21:15-16 ESV)

And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
(Matthew 18:2-6 ESV)

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
(Matthew 18:12-14 ESV)



Numbers 14:22 Talks about sparring those under 20.

The Lord said, “And you can be just as sure that these men will not see the land I promised to give them. They have seen my glory. They have seen the miraculous signs I did in Egypt. And they have seen what I did in the desert. But they did not obey me. And they have put me to the test ten times. 23 So not even one of them will ever see the land I promised with an oath to give to their people of long ago. No one who has made fun of me will ever see it.
24 “But my servant Caleb has a different spirit. He follows me with his whole heart. So I will bring him into the land he went to. And his children after him will receive land there.
29 ” ‘You will die in this desert. Every one of you who is 20 years old or more will die. Every one of you who was counted in the list of the people will die. Every one of you who has spoken out against me will be wiped out. 30 I lifted up my hand and promised with an oath to make this land your home. But now not all of you will enter the land. Caleb, the son of Jephunneh, will enter it. So will Joshua, the son of Nun. They are the only ones who will enter the land.
32 As for you, you will die in the desert. 33 Your children will be shepherds here for 40 years. They will suffer because you were not faithful. They will suffer until the last of your bodies lies here in the desert. 34 For 40 years you will suffer for your sins. That is one year for each of the 40 days you checked out the land. You will know what it is like to have me against you.’

Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/02/10 10:37 PM

This is an interesting quote:

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.


This is an interesting quote:

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.


"The Church" is a historical reference to the time when there was only one church which dominated Europe – the Catholic church.

The foundations of that church were built on worldly goods received through religious services provided to monarchs, emperors and other rulers.

The Church actually built some of the first and largest universities of higher education. The purpose of those universities was to educate future church authorities who would take their place in the courts of rulers and help to fill Church coffers as great rulers could be quite generous to The Church. Rulers often paid handsome rewards when Church officials found ways to keep Church in line with the goals of the ruler.

Even in recent times, we see a number of Evangelical heads who have also built on the foundation “which is Jesus Christ” and they have glorified themselves with luxuries in the names of God and Jesus.

Being a Pastor today is a job and in many cases the benefits of the job include among others, health & life insurance and retirement funds. Pastors ‘shop’ for their jobs, like in any other profession.

Exactly what part of Christian church foundations today is NOT built using “gold, silver, costly stones, wood…” ?






It is fine to build a church using gold,silver,etc,as long as you are using the church to promote and preach the Holy bible and to worship the father.What this verse is talking about is having a expensive church that looks good,is expensive,but is not preaching the truth.

A good example would be these churches that have homosexual pastors.It won't matter how big or expensive they are.When it comes to judgment by fire their works will be burned up because they are not preaching the Holy bible and telling lies.

Another example would be for the pastor to put all the money into the church to make it look good instead of using the money to help the poor,feed the homeless,etc.

Some related bible verses.

Luke 20:46-47 ESV “Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces and the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts, who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation.”

Luke 11:39-52 ESV And the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? But give as alms those things that are within, and behold, everything is clean for you. “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seat in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. ...

Matthew 21:28-32 ESV “What do you think? A man had two sons. And he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ And he answered, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he changed his mind and went. And he went to the other son and said the same. And he answered, ‘I go, sir,’ but did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. And even when you saw it, you did not afterward change your minds and believe him.

Jeremiah 7:8-10 ESV “Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail. Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make offerings to Baal, and go after other gods that you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered!’—only to go on doing all these abominations?

Timothy 3:5 ESV Having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

mans 2:3 ESV Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Luke 16:13 ESV No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

James 1:25-27 ESV But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing. If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.


Revelation 3:1 ESV “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

John 15:6 ESV If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.


Thomas3474's photo
Tue 11/02/10 10:00 PM

Where, in the following quotes does it say that faith in Jesus is necessary to be rewarded?


Matthew 16:26-27
"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

Revelation 22:11-12
"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."








John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I am the way, the truth, and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME.” — Jesus Christ (John 14:6)



Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be SAVED?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be SAVED, and thy house.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED.

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