C. Neither, cause I don't even kiss on a first date. Yes, I'm a wuss. No wonder I get no puss?

Touche! Point taken!

OMFG...I think I may actually BE a WOMAN now! HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP ME!

Wow, you are quite the princess, ain't you? Want a medal (spell it correctly, please) for all YOU went through when you so openly shared your woeful pregnancy and childbirth story? Here's YOUR *meddle*. Wear it proudly and be sure to get the princess wave down pat, ok?

And, yes, my ex-lover DOES grieve her choice to today, if you really must know. Yes, we actually remained dear friends and still keep in touch frequently. She's even good friends with my ex-wife. Weird and what a concept, huh? Feel better now, just because she shares the "uterus connection" with you?

If you would stop being so bitter and actually READ my posts - It IS a woman's CHOICE, one that I ultimately had to support and DID and never asked for kudos then...or now.

I got into your business when you made it MY business by bashing MY opinions. For that, I refuse to apologize.

Thank you for actually listening, Izzie.

I agree, I may not be the norm, but those of us are not as few and far between as it may seem. We just seem to get squashed in the politics and heat of it all that our voice is never really *heard*.

And for Krimsa? Do you even realize how truly idiotic what you just typed is?

It takes only one male to impregnant several women? OMG! How about the numerous women who have given birth to multiple children by MULTIPLE fathers?

Not to mention, can't you see the irony in your comment? You can "freeze" OUR sperm when it's convenient for YOU to get pregnant. Hmmm...where would you be without OUR frozen popsicles?

Here, let me answer that for you...CHILDLESS!

I personally believe...as proven by numerous kids named "Jack" and something called * proven science* - we DO create "Jacks" with our "jack", thank you very much!

Sister? You women do NOT create life exclusively! At least not without the short or long end of a MAN'S *stick*! Just a little trip down the birds and bees lane for you.

Well, unless you are named "VIRGIN Mary"! If you are, then prove it - that would be a really cool party trick!

I notice some have asked in here "why aren't the men responding?" If you take a quick recap at some of the women's responses in here, I think you can sumise the *why* on this topic: men's opinions are mostly not regarded, nor very welcomed or more importantly even remotely respected.

I will state my peace one last time in here and then wash my hands of it simply because I'm not here to change anyone's mind nor force my views on others, but to just state my personal views and experience with the topic.

First of all...

For Lily:

All I can say is WOW - I thought *I* was being harsh in here, but given your blantant laughter and borderline cruel heckling to my last post, you have me beat by 100 miles, not to mention crossing the line into *soul-less*. Yet, you appear comfortable in bashing others for "judging" and being "incompassionate"?

Lily, you state in your first post that "all I ever wanted to be was a mother", correct? Why am I so different than you for possessing the same deep desire as a man to be a father?

You further state you endured great physical hardship during your pregnancy and birth (of which, I'm very sorry and am honestly glad you regained your health); however, you didn't mind because of the beautiful gift you received of your "angel of a daughter", right? Why am I so different than you to have stated I would also endure all the difficulties I would potentially face to give birth to such a beautiful gift of a child if I were physically able to do so? What in your heart made this so "laughable" to you?

For Papersmile:

I respect your comments, however if you had read my previous posts you would see I take (took) full responsibility for MY sperm being 50% of the culprit for impregnating my lover at the time. My comment to Lily stating "I'm NOT responsible for what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy/childbirth" is simply that - I was NOT the creator/inventor of how a woman's body handles pregnancy. I am NOT *God*. However, I do resent being treated as an idiot and held prisoner to this fact simply because I do not possess a uterus and told over and over and over again that I can no way "relate" to it. I never once, nor ever will, profess I can relate.

Lastly, FYI, and this is very personal for me to share - but, yes, I did choose celibacy after this tragic incident in my life until my wife entered my life several years later.

In closing:

Let it be known again - I am PRO CHOICE, and always will be. I respect a woman's body, and will always support her choices about her physical being. I believe many circumstances warrant abortion; however, NOT all.

I never once got angry with my lover at the time or was even remotely belligerant that she MUST give birth to our child (50/50 right...or am I wrong here too?). We talked, we cried, and I stood up to the plate with every viable option...including marriage, full financial coverage of medical bills and child support, as well as offering to care for and raise the child ALONE if need be because I was financially able to do so and so deeply wanted this child that was a part of her AND me.

In the end, I had no choice but to respect and support HER choice. Yes, I paid fully for the abortion and follow-up visits (privately, not an abortion clinic, so my beloved would receive the best possible care offered). Yes, I was with her through the whole process, supporting her every step of the way - even though I was completely heartbroken.

It was posted by a woman above more eloquently than one of my posts - but, I do tend to wonder why is it considered fair when a woman decides on her own to have a child against a man's wishes due to whatever reason he may give (i.e., don't want kids, can't afford it, not ready yet, whatever) that he MUST then commit his life and his earnings to raise said child? Why is it that the man is automatically dubbed the sh*thead because it was a decision made by one - which he ultimately had no say in? As a person - and a MAN - I do not see this as equitable, and never will.

Lastly, again, I have since fathered three beautifully amazing children which I devote my life to, support and co-parent lovingly and effectively.

I also went through a horrible and life-threatening eptopic pregnancy with my wife. With my three current children, I was there for every doc's appointment, every Lamaze lesson, each labor/delivery, late nite and early morning puke sessions with my wife, taking on the burden of all household chores when she was too weak, tired or sick, midnight feedings, diaper changings, round the clock care when our daughter was born breach with two club-feet and caused my wife to go septic during and after childbirth, taking on a 3rd job to cover my daughter's medical expenses for corrective surgeries, etc., etc., etc.

Women are amazing beings, blessed with the gift of childbirth abilities, but they by no means corner the market on parenting.

And, yes, I do shed a tear nearly every day for the child I lost years ago due to supporting my lover's ultimate "decision" to abort our child. I ask each woman to think for just a brief moment - WHAT IF - the roles were reversed? How would you feel if you were told "you have NO say in this, even though half of what is growing inside of MY womb is YOU?" You seem to stand all high and mighty behind what your body endures...but, stop and think for a moment about your partner's heart. Again, I would take a leaky bladder (or whatever) over my broken heart any day. But, that's just me - a man - without a uterus.

So, go ahead...laugh and heckle at me again if you must. I can say proudly, as most of you women who suffered hardship during pregnancy often say, that I would not change a thing as I stare into my children's faces. But, I will forever wonder and grieve alone my unknown child's face and soul that I will never get to hold, see, experience...ever.

Over and out!

In response to Lily:

I'm humbly sorry for what a woman's body must suffer most times during pregnancy and childbirth, but I certainly am not responsible for creating how that process works. Therefore, I do not feel it is fair to men to be punished for this by allowing the woman to make the ultimate decision whether or not he be allowed or denied the joys of fatherhood.

I respectfully disagree with you - married or NOT, if a "couple" chooses to engage in sex which could ultimately result in pregnancy, then it should be a SHARED decision.

To Jim:

"Dude", I feel I have every right to have a voice in whether MY child lives or dies. We are not discussing a vasectomy here - that's apples to pork chops, in my opinion.




Thank you, Littleredhen! I think you can already sumise my opinion on your post.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Case in point:

Man meets woman. Man and woman fall deeply in love. Man and woman have sex (with protection, mind you). Woman gets pregnant. Man is filled with complete joy. Woman is not. Man offers to do all the "right" things, even raise this child alone if need be. Woman refuses due to not wanting to be "inconvenienced" by pregnancy at that point in her life. Man pleads for the life of his child. Woman refuses. Man apparently has "no say" in the matter. Woman aborts child. Man is forever heartbroken and sheds a tear every day for the remainder of his life for his lost child.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I would take a leaky bladder, swollen ankles, weight gain, and all the multitude of other things that go along with pregnancy and child bearing...if I physically could, but clearly I cannot.

So, as Lily stated...until any of you have to live with that form of "pain" of having your rights stripped away of loving a child of yours on a daily basis - it doesn't concern you and stay out of it.

As stated in my post and Goofball's - NO, this does NOT make any sense in my male opinion.

Again, I am pro-choice in many situations surrounding this touchy issue.

However, when it comes down to two people, who chose to lay down with one another for the sake of love or even lust to share their bodies, then the decision should be shared - EQUALLY.

This is harsh, I know (hypothetically, of course) - but, so sorry to inconvenience your precious "uterus" for 9 months, but you sure didn't seem to mind when my "penis" was in you, sharing MY sperm, to make OUR baby. Therefore, I think I have every right to say what becomes (or not) of OUR child.

I am undeniably 100% Pro CHOICE on this matter.

However, I would like to state I think it is extremely sexist, controlling, selfish, manipulative and completely moronic for any woman to say that it should be only the woman's choice to make whether or not to abort because she *possesses* the almighty uterus.

I have three children *I* fathered. Suffice it to say my children would not be a part of this world without MY *contribution*. I believe I have every right, just as much as my partner's, to have a say in such an important decision about another life we made TOGETHER.

Certainly, most women who make the decision to have a child against the man's wishes, she typically expects, often demands, his support then, right? Men don't have much of a say in that matter - we must do as we are told by the court system if our morals and own standards don't support *her* decision.

Quite the double-standard if you ask me. But, what do I know? I'm just a simple man without a uterus.

VOTE!

I dunno - maybe writing the checks this morning for my mortgage, utility bills, insurance, my children's doc bills, etc. made me semi-adult like.

But, then having my little girl beat the crap out of me playing the card game Spit brought me back down a notch.

Damn PROUD Auburn fan here...present and accounted for!

Yup, likely. Be sure to bring the beer NUTS Entity, I think we'll need them.

Sorry, too Jerry Springer'ish like for me to even respond in an adult manner.

You lost me at "would you tell...".

Carry on, peanut gallery.

You are? Oh sh*t...wait a second, I think I am too.

If I wasn't before, I'm pretty sure I will be after this forum hits the bone yard (or is that boner yard?)

1. That "feralcat's" ever changing pics of scantily clad and sexy chicks or d*ck cakes, even though she is supposedly happily married and "Christian".

2. A beautiful woman leaving me breathless.

3. A current local phone book.

To YOU, I can say...BUTCH UP, DUDE! Grow a pair!

And that light you *left on* is attracting BUGS...cut it OFF, would you?

A very sincere "your welcome".

Thanks for peeking, finding me intriguing, and saying some woman would be proud to have me at her side.

Could you call my exwife and tell her your thoughts based on my simply typed words/thoughts?

Personally, I HATE that stupid sh*t of people saying blantantly "get over it".

Big difference of getting over it and getting *through* it.

Best of luck to you.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with the sense of being *alone again*, unless you are a miserable person by yourself in all situations. If that's the case, then seek therapy.

I think it hurts so much because you loved, and lost. Loss hurts and sucks. Simple as that.

Grieve, cry, mourn, and move past it in time.

And for Seahawks who said he wants his house and dog back, well just play a Waylon (Wailing) Jennings song...BACKWARDS! You will get it ALL back.