Greetings All,

A lot of people confuse judging with discerning.

When we discern someone's character we can accurately declare where they are coming from yet not have an once of condemnation of them as a person. I may discern the tendency to steal in a particular person and I am not being judgmental about them if I do not trust them around my belongings. I can love them yet not trust them.

Jesus could call Herod a fox, the pharisees whitewashed sepulchers and yet He did not judge them. He declared Himself that He had come to save.

So when you get clear discernment, watch out for the devil trying to sow the condemning thought into your mind that you are judging.

However, if you take your discernment and fail to either pray for the person concerned or end up simply gossiping about them with no intention of being instrumental in restoring such a one, your discernment will turn into a critical and or judgmental spirit.

Peace to you in Jesus Name

Yes global flood evidence everywhere, in China and in Russia and in Africa and in Australia and even in little ole New Zealand... and of course, in the Word of God

C'mon Peter Pan, get away from those fairy tales.

Hey Peter,

Cerise is not questioning the truth of Psalm 104.

Its your interpretation of it that is faulty.

There is nothing in Psalm 104 that says that the entire Psalm is about creation.

The Psalmist talks of many things in this passage of Scripture.

To be sure, Creation is mentioned, but so are the cedars of Lebanon v16, sailing ships v26, God touching the mountains to make them smoke v32 and the consuming of the wicked from the earth v35.

When the whole Psalm is considered, your taking of verses 5-9 as a 'proof' of your theory simply exposes you as one who is taking Scripture out of the context from which it has its true meaning.

The Psalm actually covers from Creation to the End of the Age and verses 5-9 are references to the Global Flood.

Psalm 104
New King James Version (NKJV)


1 Bless the Lord, O my soul!
O Lord my God, You are very great:
You are clothed with honor and majesty,
2 Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment,
Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.
3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters,
Who makes the clouds His chariot,
Who walks on the wings of the wind,
4 Who makes His angels spirits,
His ministers a flame of fire.
5 You who laid the foundations of the earth,
So that it should not be moved forever,
6 You covered it with the deep as with a garment;
The waters stood above the mountains.
7 At Your rebuke they fled;
At the voice of Your thunder they hastened away.
8 They went up over the mountains;
They went down into the valleys,
To the place which You founded for them.
9 You have set a boundary that they may not pass over,
That they may not return to cover the earth.
10 He sends the springs into the valleys;
They flow among the hills.
11 They give drink to every beast of the field;
The wild donkeys quench their thirst.
12 By them the birds of the heavens have their home;
They sing among the branches.
13 He waters the hills from His upper chambers;
The earth is satisfied with the fruit of Your works.
14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the service of man,
That he may bring forth food from the earth,
15 And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine,
And bread which strengthens man’s heart.
16 The trees of the Lord are full of sap,
The cedars of Lebanon which He planted,
17 Where the birds make their nests;
The stork has her home in the fir trees.
18 The high hills are for the wild goats;
The cliffs are a refuge for the rock badgers.
19 He appointed the moon for seasons;
The sun knows its going down.
20 You make darkness, and it is night,
In which all the beasts of the forest creep about.
21 The young lions roar after their prey,
And seek their food from God.
22 When the sun rises, they gather together
And lie down in their dens.
23 Man goes out to his work
And to his labor until the evening.
24 O Lord, how manifold are Your works!
In wisdom You have made them all.
The earth is full of Your possessions—
25 This great and wide sea,
In which are innumerable teeming things,
Living things both small and great.
26 There the ships sail about;
There is that Leviathan
Which You have made to play there.
27 These all wait for You,
That You may give them their food in due season.
28 What You give them they gather in;
You open Your hand, they are filled with good.
29 You hide Your face, they are troubled;
You take away their breath, they die and return to their dust.
30 You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;
And You renew the face of the earth.
31 May the glory of the Lord endure forever;
May the Lord rejoice in His works.
32 He looks on the earth, and it trembles;
He touches the hills, and they smoke.
33 I will sing to the Lord as long as I live;
I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.
34 May my meditation be sweet to Him;
I will be glad in the Lord.
35 May sinners be consumed from the earth,
And the wicked be no more.
Bless the Lord, O my soul!
Praise the Lord!

And another thing Peter.

When the Lord called Herod a fox, He wasn't insulting Him, He was suitably describing His character.

Likewise when the Lord called the Pharisees 'whitewashed sepulchers', He wasn't insulting them but stating in graphic language the state of their being. He never stopped loving them, even when He was angrily grieved at their hardness of heart.

However, they were offended at Him because they didn't like the truth.

Likewise with my comments about you. If you consider them insulting, that is your problem in that you have judged me as one who insults you.

Peace to you in Jesus Name

Well its a good thing I have the Holy Spirit to lead me into all Truth and I don't have to rely on fairy tales. I can trust Him, and will trust Him to do exactly as He said He would do and that is this; if I lean not on my own understanding and trust in the Lord with all my heart as I commit my way unto Him, He will continue to reveal the Truth to me.

So far I can see that you are leaning on your own understanding for the revelation of God is something you are presently arguing with, and until you humble yourself under His mighty hand you will continue to be deceived and go about deceiving.

Peace to you in Jesus Name

Get a revelation.

Elihu

Genesis 7:1-24
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Great Flood

1Then the Lord said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation. 2 You shall take with you seven each of every clean animal, a male and his female; two each of animals that are unclean, a male and his female; 3 also seven each of birds of the air, male and female, to keep the species alive on the face of all the earth. 4 For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” 5 And Noah did according to all that the Lord commanded him. 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth.

7 So Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons’ wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean animals, of animals that are unclean, of birds, and of everything that creeps on the earth, 9 two by two they went into the ark to Noah, male and female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.

13 On the very same day Noah and Noah’s sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and Noah’s wife and the three wives of his sons with them, entered the ark— 14 they and every beast after its kind, all cattle after their kind, every creeping thing that creeps on the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath of life. 16 So those that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him; and the Lord shut him in.

17 Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18 The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit[a] of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23 So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. 24 And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Peter Pan, what part of this passage of scripture tells you there was no world wide flood?

If the account in Psalm 104 is a creation story, how is it the waters are covering the earth again in Genesis 7 when in Psalm 104 the Lord says it will not happen again.

Dear Peter Pan,it appears that like your name sake you are away with the fairies on this one!

Get a revelation.

Elihu

Peter Pan,

Your statement here is simply ridiculous.

"Now, if you want me to believe in your "hell", you must first convince me that Hades and Tartaroos are NOT pagan myths...

This line of reasoning of yours is faulty to begin with.

If there is a pagan myth about eight people surviving a world wide flood, does that then make the flood story in the Bible false?

If there are pagan myths about the reality of the devil, does that make the Biblical record of his existence false.

Your reasoning makes the pagan myths the arbitrator of truth.

Your reasoning is such that if any truth from God's Word is found in a pagan myth, then it is no longer true.

Ridiculous.

Hell is real because the Bible says so, regardless of whether a pagan myth does or does not agree. Your focus is in the wrong place. Get your eyes off pagan myths as they are irrelevant to God's truth.

Hell is in the Bible. Check out the Scriptures Cerise posted earlier. Get out your concordance and do some proper study instead of looking at pagan myths.

Peace to you in Jesus Name.

Elihu

unmin

It's amazing how nice a person can be when they are courting you, and when they are married the real self comes forth.

I've seen a number of cases of the years where people have married outside of the Faith and it has been disastrous. The number of happy endings are definitely the exceptions and not the rule.

It seems that the devil loves tempting believers into situations that would bring sorrow and pain into their life.

Hang in there young lady and put your trust in God to bring the good and Godly man your way.

Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Peace to you in Jesus Mighty Name

Elihu

Greetings All

God is eternal, and He created time and space and all that fills them.

We live in His creation which is temporal, not eternal.

When we our bodies die, we then enter into eternity.

God's reward to those who have received eternal life is that they will enter into eternal blessing.

The blessing has to be eternal for it is given in eternity, the eternal realm.

Likewise, the punishment for those who would not repent is eternal, it can not be anything else for there is nothing temporal in eternity.

In eternity reward and punishment are both eternal.

Thus hell is forever.

If you can't see it from Scripture, then perhaps this appeal to your logic might help.

Peace to you in Jesus Name

Hey Peter,

Just because the pagans have some awareness of spiritual realities doesn't negate the truth.

Many pagan cultures have among their 'myths' accounts of the Great Flood of Noah's time.

That doesn't make the Flood a falsehood.

You have found some pagan accounts of hell and now you think all references to hell are pagan.

That is a faulty logic and does not stand up to the revelation of Scripture.

Let your mind be renewed by the Word of God and don't doubt it. Even when the pagans agree with it, we should rejoice that there is still some of God's truth out among the pagans.

Nor do I fear hell, for I have absolute assurance of salvation. Absence of fear of hell is not our measure of truth on the matter. God's word is truth and as Cerise's list of scriptures declare the matter, no more argument need be made. Simply believe.

Yours in Christ

Elihu

America, America

Man sheds his waste on thee

And hides the hills with billboard signs

From sea to shining sea

You are right, hell is not eternal. But you are wrong to assume it is simply a holding place for satan. satan is the god of this world and although hell is his domain he walks about on this earth along with countless demons seeking who they may devour and inspiring wicked men to evil schemes and deceiving those who do not have a love for the truth.

The only time satan will be incarcerated is when he spends a thousand years in the pit before he is let out at the end of the millennium.

However the lake of fire which will be worse than hell will burn forever and ever. Hell for the time being is operated by the devil and his hordes. The Lake of fire will be God's direct wrath poured out in full.

And people are thrown into it and it is eternal torment.

Rev 20:10

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The false prophet is a man who supported the anti-christ/beast who is also a man and they are in the fire with the devil to be tormented forever.

Rev 20:14-15

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Everyone not found in the Book of Life will be in the fire, which as we saw above is where the torment is forever.

All the more reason to be READY FOR HIS COMING, whether it be at the end of the age or when He comes for us at our appointed time to die.

Cerise,

Not one of the scriptures you have given say anything about the timing of the Gathering of the Saints at the end of the age. You are simply trying to sidestep Jesus' explicit words on the matter.

It is not my words you are arguing with, it is Jesus' Words.

Here are some more words of Jesus on the matter.

Matthew 13:36-43

The Parable of the Tares Explained

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The harvest is the end of the age. The tares and the wheat are harvested together. Get a revelation.

In case you didn't get it.

Matthew 13:47-50

The Parable of the Dragnet

47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age.

The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

Again we have a description of the end of the age. One net, good and bad together. No separate rapture. Get a revelation.

Stop trying to interpret God's Word with the imaginations of man and become like a babe and simply believe it. It is plain for all to see.

Elihu

Peter Pan

With a name like that I can see why you are prone to fairy tales.

Whilst there may be unregenerate people who rejoice in the idea of the eternal torments of hell, those who have God's Heart on the matter grieve as He does for the soul that so enters into hell.

To think there is no hell is to think there is no judgment.

One does not appreciate how much God hates sin.

Consider a judge in a mere human court come the sentencing of a child abuser and murderer. If he said, "Guilty" and then gave absolutely no sentence, would justice be done?

If it is right for God to give everlasting mercy and blessing, it is also right for Him to give everlasting judgment on the wicked.

You must remember that those who will be in the eternal fires are WICKED. They have refused to turn from EVIL. They rejected God which is to say they have rejected all that is good. They have rejected love and they have rejected being loving, for God is LOVE. LOVE has the only perfect hatred and that is the hatred of EVIL.

Let us be ready indeed for Christ's return for our God is a consuming fire who will burn up all His enemies FOREVER.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

To tell people there is no eternal judgment in hell is to remove from them the fear of the Lord and to cut them off from becoming wise.

Yours in Christ Jesus

ELIHU

Dear CeriseRose

You may take exception to my comments as you will, but know this, I do not enter into your premise of moral equivalency.

And to point out your error does not mean I am judging you.

Jesus said that the gathering together unto Him comes AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS and you say it can come at anytime.

Mark 13:24-27

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

His words are true and yours are false. That is a fact.

Repent, and you will no longer be a false teacher/prophet.

I say this for your sake, for I would not want you to be in the place appointed for false teachers and false prophets. Their judgment will be just.

The blood of the many that will be caused to stumble because they were deceived into believing this false hope of a pre-trib rapture and were not in the least prepared to endure to the end through the tribulation that is coming before the Great Gathering will be on the hands of those who proclaimed this heresy.

My conscience is clear and is enlightened on this matter by the Light of the Word of God. You wont be able to say that you have not been warned.

Yours sincerely in Christ.

Elihu

You have understood me well dear Ladywind.

However, it could be that Peterpan was not implying that I should repent, but that if someone identified with my example, they should repent.

At least I hope that is what he was thinking. But you may be right, perhaps we should wait for his comment.

LFA

Flip

That sounds dangerous, I might melt and be consumed.

Or like a moth I could fry my wings

Help me Lord

Dear Brother,

Just because it feels natural doesn't make it right.

All of our sin is inherited, all the way from Adam and Eve. It is natural for us to sin.

More specifically we inherit the consequences of the sins of our forefathers to the third and fourth generation.

You have all the symptoms of an inherited spirit of homosexuality which you can be set free from in Jesus Name.

I have been involved in Holy Spirit Lead Prayer Ministry bringing inner healing to the heart and deliverance from evil for over twenty years so I have considerable experience on this matter.

Whilst the spirit may be inherited, it is highly possible that through love deprivation as a child you are left feeling desperate for the acceptance and love from men that you did not get from your father.

However the love deprivation came about, forgive those who were responsible and ask God to heal your heart in this area.

Seeking love and acceptance from men is not sin in itself, but sexual sin is nothing but the devils substitute for love.

God is not condemning you, He desires to see you free. But if you willfully yield to sin and welcome it in your life, the condemnation God has toward sin will become yours if you did not repent before you died.

Confess this attitude in your heart as sin, renounce it emphatically and then speak to that devil of homosexuality and tell it to go from you in Jesus name.

If you do not get through on your own, find some Spirit Filled Believers who know how to cast out devils and get their assistance. Ordinary counseling will not cut it, you need the Power of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name.

As for the advice to follow your heart, I could not agree with that at all. In our hearts are all manner of things that are not right in God's eyes. I could feel in my heart that some body should die, but should I go out and kill them. I could feel like doing all manner of sin, but I am not to be led by feelings, but by the Holy Spirit of God and He will not lead me to sin and God's Word tells us what sin is.

Certainly everybody has their own moral values. But it is not our values that count. It is what God says that counts. God gave us His laws in the Bible and we all like sheep have gone astray, each to his own ways.

Repent dear Brother and do not allow sin to reign in your body for you were bought with the precious Blood of Jesus that you might walk in Righteousness.

Avail yourself of His mercy and His grace and His Power to set you free.

Yours sincerely in Christ

Elihu

PS. If you need some more advice, feel free to contact me direct