100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: Are YOU Ready for Christ's Return? | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
Are YOU ready for Christ's return!!! Question: "How are we to live our lives in light of Christ's return?" Answer: We believe that the return of Jesus Christ is imminent, that is, His return could occur at any moment. We, with the apostle Paul, look for “the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). Knowing that the Lord could come back today, some are tempted to stop what they are doing and just “wait” for Him. However, there is a big difference between knowing that Jesus could return today and knowing that He will return today. Jesus said, “No one knows about that day or hour” (Matthew 24:36). The time of His coming is something God has not revealed to anyone, and so, until He calls us to Himself, we should continue serving Him. In Jesus’ parable of the ten talents, the departing king instructs his servants to “occupy till I come” (Luke 19:13 KJV). The return of Christ is always presented in Scripture as a great motivation to action, not as a reason to cease from action. In 1 Corinthians 15:58, Paul wraps up his teaching on the rapture by saying, “Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord.” In 1 Thessalonians 5:6, Paul concludes a lesson on Christ’s coming with these words: “So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled.” To retreat and “hold the fort” was never Jesus’ intention for us. Instead, we work while we can. “Night is coming, when no one can work” (John 9:4). The apostles lived and served with the idea that Jesus could return within their lifetime; what if they had ceased from their labors and just “waited”? They would have been in disobedience to Christ’s command to “go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation” (Mark 16:15), and the gospel would not have been spread. The apostles understood that Jesus’ imminent return meant they must busy themselves with God’s work. They lived life to the fullest, as if every day were their last. We, too, should view every day as a gift and use it to glorify God. http://www.gotquestions.org/live-lives-Christ-return.html |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cerise Rose
To believe that Christ could return at any moment means one has to completely disregard the scriptures that foretell the events that must happen before He returns. Mark 13:19-27 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. He comes after the tribulation, after the darkening of the sun, after the stars of heaven fall and the heavens are shaken. My wife died suddenly recently, having no known medical condition or any other advance warning. A reminder that God could call any one of us home at any time, but the scriptures concerning what happens before He comes will be fulfilled. He said it, we should believe it, and that should settle it. But this man-made doctrine of imminency would make God a liar. The apostles understood no such thing as Christ's imminent return. Paul taught that the apostasy must come first and the revealing of the son of perdition. Because life is so short we have plenty to motivate us toward fruitfulness. The encouragement you have given to get on with the work of the Lord is to be commended, but bringing in a contradiction of Jesus' words is not. By all means be ready, He may call you home, but He is not coming till all is fulfilled Peace to you in Jesus Mighty Name |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Sat 06/30/12 07:08 AM
|
|
Cerise Rose To believe that Christ could return at any moment means one has to completely disregard the scriptures that foretell the events that must happen before He returns. Mark 13:19-27 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. He comes after the tribulation, after the darkening of the sun, after the stars of heaven fall and the heavens are shaken. My wife died suddenly recently, having no known medical condition or any other advance warning. A reminder that God could call any one of us home at any time, but the scriptures concerning what happens before He comes will be fulfilled. He said it, we should believe it, and that should settle it. But this man-made doctrine of imminency would make God a liar. The apostles understood no such thing as Christ's imminent return. Paul taught that the apostasy must come first and the revealing of the son of perdition. Because life is so short we have plenty to motivate us toward fruitfulness. The encouragement you have given to get on with the work of the Lord is to be commended, but bringing in a contradiction of Jesus' words is not. By all means be ready, He may call you home, but He is not coming till all is fulfilled Peace to you in Jesus Mighty Name Elihu, I first want to say "Thank you for being a part of this fellowship of believers". And yes, this is a "fellowship"! We are from all walks of life. Yet, we were all led to the Cross of Christ and that is our common ground; our only glory! Most of us have made the conscious decision to frequent this forum for the purpose of ministering to one another and/or to be ministered to. Above all we are determined to grow in Christ; His "love", His "work". We by trial and some errors have made the choice to accept our differences using God's Word for assurance of right thinking. We are all "Christian Singles" By Christ, I am in great appreciation for one who isn't shy about delving into Biblical conversation. With this exception... I refuse to engage in strong debate going as far as accusing one another. My advice to all is to state your biblically-based truth and let that be your honest opinion until you are by God's Truth, shown a more excellent way of understanding. There are so many facets of God's Word. There are so many facts to be considered. There will be times, in this "fellowship" when we will fall flat on our faces. Which is a great position for prayer and repentance. There are times when we all have to figuratively "eat our words". We will start to study God's word more carefully. Afterwards, we learn to use tact and careful consideration. I have not known you long at all, but I think I like you. I hope that you will remain in "fellowship with us". I know from reading your posts that you, as Christ will have us all to be, are concerned with being on the true course. I'm determined not to contradict Christ's words. I am very much aware of the events that precede Christ's return. There are many event and scenarios to expect. Some have past taken place and some are unveiling as we speak. Consider this... that the church who will be raptured, that is, "changed" in that "twinkling of an eye" and "caught up", may not be required to experience the "great tribulation" or go through the worst part of the "great tribulation". There is "tribulation" as we speak. Birth pangs! The "falling away" has happened. And is still in progress. Men who once confessed Christ as Lord have fallen back into perdition. Denying Him instead. Speaking blasphemy in replace of the Lord's praises. False prophets, false christs, are mounting up against the true saints. They say " Jesus didn't die to save you". They aspire to be gurus of the weak and disillusioned among us. Like lambs to the slaughter the weak and faithless follow after them. These weak and clueless ones patronize the false teachers, declaring their message as though it were gospel, never having given God's Word the slightest meditation. I will also remind you that Israel is considered in the return of Christ. There are certain events that are separate pertaining to the "church" and "Israel". We are presently in the Church age. Some believe that the "church" will be taken out of the way as events escalate. "Israel's redemption draweth near" There are Biblical scholars who are quite certain that Matthew 13 refers to Israel. While there are many scriputres which refer to us the present day "church" as being raptured. I will shorten this reply by giving some scripture. .The Rapture will happen before the Tribulation. • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 • Revelation 3:10 The Second Coming will happen at the end of the Tribulation. • Revelation 6-19 1 Thessalonians 5: Day of the Lord 1, But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2, For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3, For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5, Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6, Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7, For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8, But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11, Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. 12, And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13, And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. 14, Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. 15, See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 16, Rejoice evermore. 17, Pray without ceasing. 18, In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 19, Quench not the Spirit. 20, Despise not prophesyings. 21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22, Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25, Brethren, pray for us. 26, Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. 27, I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren. 28, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1Corintians 15:52 Love you in Christ, God Bless! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cerise Rose To believe that Christ could return at any moment means one has to completely disregard the scriptures that foretell the events that must happen before He returns. Mark 13:19-27 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. He comes after the tribulation, after the darkening of the sun, after the stars of heaven fall and the heavens are shaken. My wife died suddenly recently, having no known medical condition or any other advance warning. A reminder that God could call any one of us home at any time, but the scriptures concerning what happens before He comes will be fulfilled. He said it, we should believe it, and that should settle it. But this man-made doctrine of imminency would make God a liar. The apostles understood no such thing as Christ's imminent return. Paul taught that the apostasy must come first and the revealing of the son of perdition. Because life is so short we have plenty to motivate us toward fruitfulness. The encouragement you have given to get on with the work of the Lord is to be commended, but bringing in a contradiction of Jesus' words is not. By all means be ready, He may call you home, but He is not coming till all is fulfilled Peace to you in Jesus Mighty Name Elihu, I first want to say "Thank you for being a part of this fellowship of believers". And yes, this is a "fellowship"! We are from all walks of life. Yet, we were all led to the Cross of Christ and that is our common ground; our only glory! Most of us have made the conscious decision to frequent this forum for the purpose of ministering to one another and/or to be ministered to. Above all we are determined to grow in Christ; His "love", His "work". We by trial and some errors have made the choice to accept our differences using God's Word for assurance of right thinking. We are all "Christian Singles" By Christ, I am in great appreciation for one who isn't shy about delving into Biblical conversation. With this exception... I refuse to engage in strong debate going as far as accusing one another. My advice to all is to state your biblically-based truth and let that be your honest opinion until you are by God's Truth, shown a more excellent way of understanding. There are so many facets of God's Word. There are so many facts to be considered. There will be times, in this "fellowship" when we will fall flat on our faces. Which is a great position for prayer and repentance. There are times when we all have to figuratively "eat our words". We will start to study God's word more carefully. Afterwards, we learn to use tact and careful consideration. I have not known you long at all, but I think I like you. I hope that you will remain in "fellowship with us". I know from reading your posts that you, as Christ will have us all to be, are concerned with being on the true course. I'm determined not to contradict Christ's words. I am very much aware of the events that precede Christ's return. There are many event and scenarios to expect. Some have past taken place and some are unveiling as we speak. Consider this... that the church who will be raptured, that is, "changed" in that "twinkling of an eye" and "caught up", may not be required to experience the "great tribulation" or go through the worst part of the "great tribulation". There is "tribulation" as we speak. Birth pangs! The "falling away" has happened. And is still in progress. Men who once confessed Christ as Lord have fallen back into perdition. Denying Him instead. Speaking blasphemy in replace of the Lord's praises. False prophets, false christs, are mounting up against the true saints. They say " Jesus didn't die to save you". They aspire to be gurus of the weak and disillusioned among us. Like lambs to the slaughter the weak and faithless follow after them. These weak and clueless ones patronize the false teachers, declaring their message as though it were gospel, never having given God's Word the slightest meditation. I will also remind you that Israel is considered in the return of Christ. There are certain events that are separate pertaining to the "church" and "Israel". We are presently in the Church age. Some believe that the "church" will be taken out of the way as events escalate. "Israel's redemption draweth near" There are Biblical scholars who are quite certain that Matthew 13 refers to Israel. While there are many scriputres which refer to us the present day "church" as being raptured. I will shorten this reply by giving some scripture. .The Rapture will happen before the Tribulation. • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 • Revelation 3:10 The Second Coming will happen at the end of the Tribulation. • Revelation 6-19 1 Thessalonians 5: Day of the Lord 1, But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2, For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3, For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4, But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5, Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6, Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7, For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8, But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11, Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. 12, And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13, And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. 14, Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. 15, See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. 16, Rejoice evermore. 17, Pray without ceasing. 18, In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 19, Quench not the Spirit. 20, Despise not prophesyings. 21, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22, Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25, Brethren, pray for us. 26, Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. 27, I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren. 28, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1Corintians 15:52 Love you in Christ, God Bless! "I refuse to engage in strong debate going as far as accusing one another. My advice to all is to state your biblically-based truth and let that be your honest opinion until you are by God's Truth, shown a more excellent way of understanding." That is one of the most condescending things said in this forum... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have met Elihu and his anointing is apostolic. He is trully an amazing man of God. He is in a position of leadership and has my greatest respect. I would submit to his astounding deep knowledge & teaching because his motivation is always to equip in love
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have met Elihu and his anointing is apostolic. He is trully an amazing man of God. He is in a position of leadership and has my greatest respect. I would submit to his astounding deep knowledge & teaching because his motivation is always to equip in love Thank you for your endorsement of Elihu, Ladywind7! I trust that he is a man of faith! Many have travelled a similar road as Elihu. Even as we are learned in scripture. There is still more that Christ will add to that learning! And our faith works by love. "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." Gal 5:6 "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." Gal 5:13 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear CeriseRose,
You gave the following as support for your pre-trib rapture theory. "I will shorten this reply by giving some scripture. .The Rapture will happen before the Tribulation. • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 • Revelation 3:10 The Second Coming will happen at the end of the Tribulation. • Revelation 6-19 " A closer examination of these scriptures is needed by you and others who use this to "prove their point" for there is actually nothing in any of them that give even a hint of a pre-trib rapture followed by a second event which you call the Second Coming. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, There is nothing in this verse that mentions anything about the timing of our gathering to Him. Nor does anything in this verse even mention the tribulation. What on earth is going on here. The wrath of God in not the tribulation. Tribulations have never been God's wrath on His people, they have always been the persecution of the saints brought about by evil men under the influence of the devil. The devil certainly has brought tribulation upon the saints and in the end of the age he will do his worst. Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, He has overcome the world and the devil and we too shall overcome by the word of our testimony, the blood of the lamb and loving our lives not, even unto death. Revelation 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. This is simply a scripture taken out of context. This verse is part of a message given to the church in Philadelphia. It has nothing to do with the end of the age. To take scriptures like this out of their context is simply cut and paste theology, which can be used to support anything you want. I have no problem with your statement that the Second Coming is after the Great Tribulation. However, to separate the rapture from the Second Coming can not be substantiated by proper exegesis. Hear again the words of Jesus. Mark 13:24-27 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Note that He sends His angels to gather us all together after the Great Tribulation of those end days. Dear Cerise, I don't doubt your sincerity, but you are sincerely wrong in your interpretation. You have also been careless in your use of God's Word, not reading carefully the context of the scriptures and also making huge leaps of logic as you apply the interpretations of man to God's Holy Writ. Beware of private interpretations of the Word. When it has a plain meaning, don't go beyond it and you will find yourself being taught by God and not by man. Its a pity that after some excellent post of yours that you should fall into this false message that spreads like cancer in the Body of Christ and is setting countless people up for the false hope of being out of here before it all gets bad. There are many false prophets proclaiming this heresy, and that is another sign Jesus said to watch out for towards the end of the age. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many ... and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ... And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. ... Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is ... Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. ... / Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... "Watch out for false prophets. They ... "Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ... And not only false prophets, but false teachers shall also abound. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but put the spirits to the test to see whether they are from God; for many false teachers have gone out into the ... Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... ... "Beware of the false teachers--men who come to you in sheep's fleeces, but beneath that disguise they are ravenous wolves. ... Galatians 4:17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for ... ... Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. 2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with ... In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. ... And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. ... That last verse is particularly to be noticed. Just look at the great money making that is going on with the "Left Behind" series of books and movies. Be warned. Love and blessings to you, and to all who are following this thread. Elihu |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Tue 07/03/12 09:18 AM
|
|
Dear CeriseRose, You gave the following as support for your pre-trib rapture theory. "I will shorten this reply by giving some scripture. .The Rapture will happen before the Tribulation. • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 • Revelation 3:10 The Second Coming will happen at the end of the Tribulation. • Revelation 6-19 " A closer examination of these scriptures is needed by you and others who use this to "prove their point" for there is actually nothing in any of them that give even a hint of a pre-trib rapture followed by a second event which you call the Second Coming. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, There is nothing in this verse that mentions anything about the timing of our gathering to Him. Nor does anything in this verse even mention the tribulation. What on earth is going on here. The wrath of God in not the tribulation. Tribulations have never been God's wrath on His people, they have always been the persecution of the saints brought about by evil men under the influence of the devil. The devil certainly has brought tribulation upon the saints and in the end of the age he will do his worst. Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, He has overcome the world and the devil and we too shall overcome by the word of our testimony, the blood of the lamb and loving our lives not, even unto death. Revelation 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. This is simply a scripture taken out of context. This verse is part of a message given to the church in Philadelphia. It has nothing to do with the end of the age. To take scriptures like this out of their context is simply cut and paste theology, which can be used to support anything you want. I have no problem with your statement that the Second Coming is after the Great Tribulation. However, to separate the rapture from the Second Coming can not be substantiated by proper exegesis. Hear again the words of Jesus. Mark 13:24-27 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Note that He sends His angels to gather us all together after the Great Tribulation of those end days. Dear Cerise, I don't doubt your sincerity, but you are sincerely wrong in your interpretation. You have also been careless in your use of God's Word, not reading carefully the context of the scriptures and also making huge leaps of logic as you apply the interpretations of man to God's Holy Writ. Beware of private interpretations of the Word. When it has a plain meaning, don't go beyond it and you will find yourself being taught by God and not by man. Its a pity that after some excellent post of yours that you should fall into this false message that spreads like cancer in the Body of Christ and is setting countless people up for the false hope of being out of here before it all gets bad. There are many false prophets proclaiming this heresy, and that is another sign Jesus said to watch out for towards the end of the age. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many ... and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ... And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. ... Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is ... Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. ... / Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... "Watch out for false prophets. They ... "Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ... And not only false prophets, but false teachers shall also abound. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but put the spirits to the test to see whether they are from God; for many false teachers have gone out into the ... Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... ... "Beware of the false teachers--men who come to you in sheep's fleeces, but beneath that disguise they are ravenous wolves. ... Galatians 4:17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for ... ... Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. 2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with ... In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. ... And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. ... That last verse is particularly to be noticed. Just look at the great money making that is going on with the "Left Behind" series of books and movies. Be warned. Love and blessings to you, and to all who are following this thread. Elihu Elihu, because of a family crisis I have not been able to respond to your last post to me. My response has been delayed. Yet again the Lord knows what's best. Praises to the Almighty God!!! I declare Romans 8:28 If I had responded immediately my words would have come out with a sort of fury. But as I've tried to advise earlier in this thread...it is unwise to accuse one another falsely. You have my forgiveness. There is room for error on both our parts. And we both,or rather we ALL only "know in part". Accusations could fly from both sides or from ALL sides for that matter. But... as I attempted to relay to you. Been there/done that. Trial and error has already beaten a path to this forum and corrections have been made! Love, repentance, and forgiveness prevailed... and shall again, I hope on both our parts. This is a fellowship! And accusations break fellowship! I regret getting too lengthy with this reply and would rather speak about this in private chat but you have preset your criteria for who may message you. (I live more than 150 miles from you) But you have to find someone else to argue with...or to accuse because the tongue is too hard to tame on these occasions. Speaking of "unfruitfulness". Let us BOTH be warned. Your "Fellow shipmate" CeriseRose |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yup!
Im packed, and ready to fly! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yup! Im packed, and ready to fly! Amen! I'll see ya when we get there! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear CeriseRose, You gave the following as support for your pre-trib rapture theory. "I will shorten this reply by giving some scripture. .The Rapture will happen before the Tribulation. • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 • Revelation 3:10 The Second Coming will happen at the end of the Tribulation. • Revelation 6-19 " A closer examination of these scriptures is needed by you and others who use this to "prove their point" for there is actually nothing in any of them that give even a hint of a pre-trib rapture followed by a second event which you call the Second Coming. 1 Thessalonians 5:9 New King James Version (NKJV) 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, There is nothing in this verse that mentions anything about the timing of our gathering to Him. Nor does anything in this verse even mention the tribulation. What on earth is going on here. The wrath of God in not the tribulation. Tribulations have never been God's wrath on His people, they have always been the persecution of the saints brought about by evil men under the influence of the devil. The devil certainly has brought tribulation upon the saints and in the end of the age he will do his worst. Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, He has overcome the world and the devil and we too shall overcome by the word of our testimony, the blood of the lamb and loving our lives not, even unto death. Revelation 3:10 New King James Version (NKJV) 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. This is simply a scripture taken out of context. This verse is part of a message given to the church in Philadelphia. It has nothing to do with the end of the age. To take scriptures like this out of their context is simply cut and paste theology, which can be used to support anything you want. I have no problem with your statement that the Second Coming is after the Great Tribulation. However, to separate the rapture from the Second Coming can not be substantiated by proper exegesis. Hear again the words of Jesus. Mark 13:24-27 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Note that He sends His angels to gather us all together after the Great Tribulation of those end days. Dear Cerise, I don't doubt your sincerity, but you are sincerely wrong in your interpretation. You have also been careless in your use of God's Word, not reading carefully the context of the scriptures and also making huge leaps of logic as you apply the interpretations of man to God's Holy Writ. Beware of private interpretations of the Word. When it has a plain meaning, don't go beyond it and you will find yourself being taught by God and not by man. Its a pity that after some excellent post of yours that you should fall into this false message that spreads like cancer in the Body of Christ and is setting countless people up for the false hope of being out of here before it all gets bad. There are many false prophets proclaiming this heresy, and that is another sign Jesus said to watch out for towards the end of the age. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and ... For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. ... Matthew 24:11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many ... and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ... And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. ... Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is ... Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets. ... / Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... "Watch out for false prophets. They ... "Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ... And not only false prophets, but false teachers shall also abound. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people ... But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce ... 1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the ... ... Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but put the spirits to the test to see whether they are from God; for many false teachers have gone out into the ... Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in ... ... "Beware of the false teachers--men who come to you in sheep's fleeces, but beneath that disguise they are ravenous wolves. ... Galatians 4:17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for ... ... Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. 2 Peter 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with ... In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. ... And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. ... That last verse is particularly to be noticed. Just look at the great money making that is going on with the "Left Behind" series of books and movies. Be warned. Love and blessings to you, and to all who are following this thread. Elihu I want to point out the bolded words above for everyone's review and then leave you with an extended quote of 2 Peter 2 and some words of my own... 2 Peter 2:1-4 New International Version (NIV) 2 Peter 2 False Teachers and Their Destruction 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them in chains of darkness[.b] to be held for judgment; Footnotes: a.2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus b.2 Peter 2:4 Some manuscripts in gloomy dungeons What we have here is scripture describing exactly what it is being done to itself. Pretty arrogant if you ask me. Tartarus is a Greek myth, a made up story. People will preach this myth as if it were true and claim "God is just". God is also merciful and Love. Yeshua commanded to love even your enemy, yet soooo many people rejoice in the thought that someone would be tormented forever and ever. (it's a MYTH people!) If any one of you has the feeling that the "sinners" get what they deserve, then you have not love and your heart should convict you of this. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear CeriseRose
You may take exception to my comments as you will, but know this, I do not enter into your premise of moral equivalency. And to point out your error does not mean I am judging you. Jesus said that the gathering together unto Him comes AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS and you say it can come at anytime. Mark 13:24-27 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. His words are true and yours are false. That is a fact. Repent, and you will no longer be a false teacher/prophet. I say this for your sake, for I would not want you to be in the place appointed for false teachers and false prophets. Their judgment will be just. The blood of the many that will be caused to stumble because they were deceived into believing this false hope of a pre-trib rapture and were not in the least prepared to endure to the end through the tribulation that is coming before the Great Gathering will be on the hands of those who proclaimed this heresy. My conscience is clear and is enlightened on this matter by the Light of the Word of God. You wont be able to say that you have not been warned. Yours sincerely in Christ. Elihu |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was wondering where I can catch a flight to Hades and Tartarus? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Pan
With a name like that I can see why you are prone to fairy tales. Whilst there may be unregenerate people who rejoice in the idea of the eternal torments of hell, those who have God's Heart on the matter grieve as He does for the soul that so enters into hell. To think there is no hell is to think there is no judgment. One does not appreciate how much God hates sin. Consider a judge in a mere human court come the sentencing of a child abuser and murderer. If he said, "Guilty" and then gave absolutely no sentence, would justice be done? If it is right for God to give everlasting mercy and blessing, it is also right for Him to give everlasting judgment on the wicked. You must remember that those who will be in the eternal fires are WICKED. They have refused to turn from EVIL. They rejected God which is to say they have rejected all that is good. They have rejected love and they have rejected being loving, for God is LOVE. LOVE has the only perfect hatred and that is the hatred of EVIL. Let us be ready indeed for Christ's return for our God is a consuming fire who will burn up all His enemies FOREVER. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. To tell people there is no eternal judgment in hell is to remove from them the fear of the Lord and to cut them off from becoming wise. Yours in Christ Jesus ELIHU |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Pan With a name like that I can see why you are prone to fairy tales. Whilst there may be unregenerate people who rejoice in the idea of the eternal torments of hell, those who have God's Heart on the matter grieve as He does for the soul that so enters into hell. To think there is no hell is to think there is no judgment. One does not appreciate how much God hates sin. Consider a judge in a mere human court come the sentencing of a child abuser and murderer. If he said, "Guilty" and then gave absolutely no sentence, would justice be done? If it is right for God to give everlasting mercy and blessing, it is also right for Him to give everlasting judgment on the wicked. You must remember that those who will be in the eternal fires are WICKED. They have refused to turn from EVIL. They rejected God which is to say they have rejected all that is good. They have rejected love and they have rejected being loving, for God is LOVE. LOVE has the only perfect hatred and that is the hatred of EVIL. Let us be ready indeed for Christ's return for our God is a consuming fire who will burn up all His enemies FOREVER. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. To tell people there is no eternal judgment in hell is to remove from them the fear of the Lord and to cut them off from becoming wise. Yours in Christ Jesus ELIHU For man, there is no eternal "torture". Only eternal punishment, which is eternal death. Only Satan and his fallen angels will be tormented eternally. Notice when it refers to "people" being cast into the lake of fire, it's known as the second death. ----------- Revelations 20 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. --------- This is the only verse that refers to an eternal torture, and it's referring to Satan and his fallen angels. Rev 20 -------- 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. ------- |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Pan With a name like that I can see why you are prone to fairy tales. Whilst there may be unregenerate people who rejoice in the idea of the eternal torments of hell, those who have God's Heart on the matter grieve as He does for the soul that so enters into hell. To think there is no hell is to think there is no judgment. One does not appreciate how much God hates sin. Consider a judge in a mere human court come the sentencing of a child abuser and murderer. If he said, "Guilty" and then gave absolutely no sentence, would justice be done? If it is right for God to give everlasting mercy and blessing, it is also right for Him to give everlasting judgment on the wicked. You must remember that those who will be in the eternal fires are WICKED. They have refused to turn from EVIL. They rejected God which is to say they have rejected all that is good. They have rejected love and they have rejected being loving, for God is LOVE. LOVE has the only perfect hatred and that is the hatred of EVIL. Let us be ready indeed for Christ's return for our God is a consuming fire who will burn up all His enemies FOREVER. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. To tell people there is no eternal judgment in hell is to remove from them the fear of the Lord and to cut them off from becoming wise. Yours in Christ Jesus ELIHU To tell people there is no eternal judgment in hell is to remove from them the fear of the Lord and to cut them off from becoming wise. There is absolutely no eternal judgement in hell, hell itself isn't even eternal. Rev 20 --------- 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. --------- Hell is cast into the lake of fire. Hell is merely a temporary holding place for Satan awaiting judgement. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
CeriseRose
on
Tue 07/03/12 09:48 PM
|
|
Dear CeriseRose You may take exception to my comments as you will, but know this, I do not enter into your premise of moral equivalency. And to point out your error does not mean I am judging you. Jesus said that the gathering together unto Him comes AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS and you say it can come at anytime. Mark 13:24-27 24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. His words are true and yours are false. That is a fact. Repent, and you will no longer be a false teacher/prophet. I say this for your sake, for I would not want you to be in the place appointed for false teachers and false prophets. Their judgment will be just. The blood of the many that will be caused to stumble because they were deceived into believing this false hope of a pre-trib rapture and were not in the least prepared to endure to the end through the tribulation that is coming before the Great Gathering will be on the hands of those who proclaimed this heresy. My conscience is clear and is enlightened on this matter by the Light of the Word of God. You wont be able to say that you have not been warned. Yours sincerely in Christ. Elihu Christians are urged to be strong and watchful regardless of the day or the hour. Elihu, I don't suppose it crossed your mind that your opinion could have flaws. Are you not aware that Joel 2:1,15 is referring to Israel, and that the church is already raptured at that point. The trumpet that's blown in Joel 2 is an "alarm" to God's people. "For the 'Day of the Lord' cometh, for it is nigh at hand". The book of Zechariah shows God's favor to Zion. (Read Chapter 2) Mark 13 may very well be related to the event of Joel 2. Read those 2 books and see that it fits Israel who is "the apple of [God's] eye". The Lord is about to defend His people, Israel. We, the Church are already raptured at that point. Elihu, don't get angry...just read carefully. The last trumpet that is blown during the "Feast of Trumpets" is regarded by Judaism as a day to remind the hearers of the resurrection of the dead. Now tie that in with the "last trump" of 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. 51, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. This describes a ressurection of the dead and the changing of our fleshly bodies to an incorruptible one. The dead in Christ and we which are alive at that moment... It happens so quickly,that the writer describes it as "a twinkling of an eye". The eye is capable of blinking so fast that one who looking at it may not even catch a glimpse of it happening. that is how fast that moment will take place. At that very moment the "catching away" will happen...this is called the "Rapture". |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What are the different Jewish festivals in the Bible? ... "The Feast of Trumpets was commanded to be held on the first day of the seventh month and was to be a “day of trumpet blast” (Numbers 29:1) to commemorate the end of the agricultural and festival year. The trumpet blasts were meant to signal to Israel that they were entering a sacred season. The agricultural year was coming to a close; there was to be a reckoning with the sins of the people on the Day of Atonement. The Feast of Trumpets signifies Christ’s second coming. We see trumpets associated with the second coming in verses like 1 Thessalonians 4:16, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.” Of course the sounding of the trumpet also indicates the pouring out of God’s wrath on the earth as well. Certainly this feast points towards the coming Day of the Lord." Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jewish-festivals.html |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was wondering where I can catch a flight to Hades and Tartarus?  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cerise,
Not one of the scriptures you have given say anything about the timing of the Gathering of the Saints at the end of the age. You are simply trying to sidestep Jesus' explicit words on the matter. It is not my words you are arguing with, it is Jesus' Words. Here are some more words of Jesus on the matter. Matthew 13:36-43 The Parable of the Tares Explained 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! The harvest is the end of the age. The tares and the wheat are harvested together. Get a revelation. In case you didn't get it. Matthew 13:47-50 The Parable of the Dragnet 47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Again we have a description of the end of the age. One net, good and bad together. No separate rapture. Get a revelation. Stop trying to interpret God's Word with the imaginations of man and become like a babe and simply believe it. It is plain for all to see. Elihu |
|
|
|
|
