100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
|
Topic:
christians
|
|
If not then does that mean the "rapture" was reserved exclusively for Missourian men?
Sorry--poor attempt at humor. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
UFC 84
|
|
Well, Viking--so far, what a night for UFC. Tito pretty much got handed his humility (not the greatest fight for Machida but he did what he had to do) and Silva stunned me (though by the looks of it, not as much as he did Jardine.)
I guess it was stupid of me to underestimate a guy like Silva--he's been around for a long time--smart fighter and he had his back against the wall tonight--looks like he's not ready to go away just yet. I mean, he owned Jardine tonight and this is the same Jardine that made Chuck look bad not that long ago. Waiting now for Penn/Sherk. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
sixx am
|
|
Yeah, great song--but lost it's edge as the radio beat it to death. The book is good--spinning some live "Carnival" by them right now. Good stuff.
-Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
UFC 84
|
|
So Predictions Who Is Goiong To Win??? Let See My Pics are Sherk To Beat Penn and regain his title Jardine To Beat Silva Tito to beat Machida This is going to be one of the best UFC!!!!! Also they've anounced the coaches for next season of the ultimate fighter it is Frank Mir and Antonio Nogueira Personally, I can't wait. But, I do disagree with two of your picks. I think that Penn will beat Sherk (but I'm really close on this one because Sherk beat Florian who also has great BJJ) and I have Machida beating Tito. I agree that Jardine will beat Silva but I think Silva is just past his prime now. It is sort of sad because a few years ago the guy was amazing. To address the JCVD issue--if Jean Claude walks into the Octagon he might not walk out. I think it's a rumor. The guy would get killed! -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The video you posted a link to above shows a manipulative man and his dumbstruck and desperate followers. It's nothing new and it won't be the last time a person of limited intelligence convinces wayward and non-critical thinking individuals to follow.
Adults I have no issue with. If an adult wants to dumb down to the point of thinking this guy the most recent incarnation of god--fine, enjoy, have fun. Where this gets sick is when children are involved. Sad--really sad. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
If the Jews are
|
|
Well, Christians are atheists too. They don't believe in Mithras or in Osiris or in Horus or in Zoroaster, Poseidon, or Zeus. The list goes on and on of gods that Christians reject--even those who were around long before Christ who made remarkably similar claims. Here, you might want to check out Horus--who lived long before Christ. And to the point of this post Jews and Christians completely disagree on who Christ was, his relevance, and his divinity (or lack thereof.) Interesting. -Drew  Christians are NOT atheists Well, as it relates to "other gods" they are. Find me someone who believes in Poseidon today, who actually believes in that ancient god. When it comes to Poseidon, they are anti-theists. I am not saying that they are atheists regarding Christ, only that there are many gods of antiquity that they do not believe in--either in their divinity or in their existence. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
If the Jews are
|
|
Well, Christians are atheists too. They don't believe in Mithras or in Osiris or in Horus or in Zoroaster, Poseidon, or Zeus. The list goes on and on of gods that Christians reject--even those who were around long before Christ who made remarkably similar claims. Here, you might want to check out Horus--who lived long before Christ.
And to the point of this post Jews and Christians completely disagree on who Christ was, his relevance, and his divinity (or lack thereof.) Interesting. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
don't you guys...
|
|
Arts and Creative are here!! I knew it--something told me things were making sense tonight. Good to see you guys. Wait, was I supposed to start an argument with someone?
 -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
The atheist and the marine
|
|
A United States Marine was attending some college courses between assignments. He had completed missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the courses had a professor who was an avowed atheist and a member of the ACLU. One day the professor shocked the class when he came in. He looked to the ceiling and flatly stated, 'God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you exactly 15 minutes.' The lecture room fell silent. You could hear a pin drop. Ten minutes went by and the professor proclaimed, 'Here I am God. I'm still waiting.' It got down to the last couple of minutes when the Marine got out of his chair, went up to the professor, and cold-cocked him; knocking him off the platform. The professor was out cold. The Marine went back to his seat and sat there silently. The other students were shocked, stunned, and sat there looking on in silence. The professor eventually came to, noticeably shaken, looked at the Marine and asked, 'What the heck is the matter with you? Why did you do that?' The Marine calmly replied, 'God was too busy today protecting America’s soldiers who are protecting your right to say stupid stuff and act like an idiot. So, He sent me.' What is so ironic (and somewhat sad) about this is that there are elements of relevance not far under the surface. Still I guess my heathen mind views it a different way. How many brave men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan of varying faiths (or none at all) prayed with every bit of their hearts that God would protect them where the stood for just fifteen minutes as bullets and hell were flying all around them? And how many came home in a flag covered coffin? While God sent the Marine to knock the professor off a platform for saying "stupid stuff and acting like an idiot" another Marine thousands of miles away could not care less--he's just hoping God isn't sick at sea. Very Christ-Like by the by--knocking out a man for challenging God? Is that the best bit of irony we have to offer today? I know it wasn't literal--so enjoy, just thought it was interesting in several ways. Regardless, every person serving has my respect and support. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Most would probably say faith. Then again, wishing upon stars and counting angels that dance on pinheads is considered a faith of some sort. -Drew In a way - and if that's what you believe, then you have to have faith that it's real. What's the point in believing in something you have no faith in? Belief and faith are the same thing. I don't believe angels dance on pinheads or that wishing upon stars makes wishes come true--but nor do I believe in a God who would for failure to accept a "gift" impose eternal punishment. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Most would probably say faith. Then again, wishing upon stars and counting angels that dance on pinheads is considered a faith of some sort.
-Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Are we truly made in His image? If so, it does not extend to the mind and heart--for we are told to love our enemies while God hates His. And then we are told to align our will to that of His.
Feckless image--I remain confused. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
the epiphany...
|
|
Drew. Just my opinion, but I think you received the meat of the message and it really doesn't get any better than that. You received and treasure the best of it. peace    I did--and when being 18 and asking questions of people far smarter was met with...."Just have faith" that was not exactly confidence inspiring. But hey, I hung in there for more than three years--I wonder if if everyone who is certain of things has really looked at both sides? -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
I'm so sad
|
|
I am sorry for your loss, Walker.
-Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
the epiphany...
|
|
This is a great post topic and question. Thanks first to the OP for asking the question without being harsh about it.
First, I am not an atheist. I cannot disprove the existence of "God" anymore than someone of faith can prove God's existence. But the proof always falls on the affirmation, not on the denial so I don't think it's my job to prove that God does or does not exist. The journey to the place I find myself today started when I was young. I was not brought up in a religious home. We did not attend church nor was there any evidence that my parents believed. At the same time, religion was never bashed or denied. It was just never brought up. At the age of 17 (or so) I joined a church purely out of my own personal interest. I instantly became involved in the music program, spent a lot of time in church and when not in church, around those with whom I shared a faith. At the time I believed I had both been "saved" and developed a personal relationship with Jesus. I prayed often, became a jerk (that is a shot at me, not at anyone else here) in that I started to take the "good news" everywhere--always wanting to share my faith. It did not work out well in that I just alienated everyone in my life. Several years passed and I started to question things. I took those sincere questions to my Pastor and to mature church members-- 1. Why is Christianity the "only" way? Church answer: The Bible says so. 2. Why would a loving God, a father, ever send a child to an eternal lake of fire for doubt or refusing to accept a "gift"? Church answer: Well, God cannot stand sin so He has no choice. 3. God says I am to love my enemies but God hates his enemies and in that I'm supposed to align my will with that of God's, which one of those things wins out? Church answer: Stop asking so many questions and just have faith. And I'm not being argumentative when I say at that point that things started to fall apart. I saw Baptists fight with Presbyterians, and with Methodists, and I saw Catholics fight with Protestants and everyone seem to fight with Jews save for the fact that Jews are God's people so don't fight with them too much. And that is not glib--I have friends of every faith--Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Agnostic, Humanist--it runs the table but I could not help but note how comfortable people were with a wink and a nod when it came to other faiths. So, I began to read, to research, to ask a ton of questions--to listen to the answers. And the more I did the less sure I became. I could not reconcile many of the things Christianity brought to the table with the world I saw around me. I still can't. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about those who do not subscribe to a faith is that we simply want to live our life full of self and selfishness--that we are just a group of people who don't care about others and want to behave poorly without consequence. I cannot express in words how wrong that line of thinking is. I don't think that way at all. I want to live a life where my choices to give and to be there for people is not predicated on a dogma. I want my choices to be decent and kind to people to be removed from a faith-based charitable obligation. I want to see people smile and laugh because it makes me happy to see such things and because I feel that from within. I can be selfish and arrogant but all of those to me are symptoms of the human condition and those things--in my opinion--are just as likely to occur in all people, regardless of faith. So, I continue to read and ask and listen and discuss. I think and love that I have a mind that is inclined to question and wonder. Sometimes I reach the end of my own limits (I don't have a world-class intellect by any means) and so I have to just let some things go. I haven't lost faith. I experience faith daily. I have faith in love and in friends. I have faith in the kindness I see every single day and I have faith in my place in this world. I am not without faith. I am simply without faith in dogma. I just woke up and this writing was rushed and choppy but I hope to some extent, it makes sense. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
Why the cross?
|
|
all have sinned and all err in their heart there is none righteous.....none. NOT ONE get over yourselves. What sparked this rant? It appears that Christianity (and many of its followers) are obsessed with trying to make people feel guilty. Jesus said not to judge others. Yet this seems to be the only thing that Christians know how to do. If this is what people become when they become a Christian then I am so grateful that I’ll never become one. Like Mahatma Gandhi once said, “I like your Christ, but I don’t care much for your Christians” Jesus said not to judge others. Why are Christians so anxious to willfully disobey him? Don’t they realize that willful disobedience of their God is a sin? Telling others that they are sinners is to judge them. The hypocrisy of the Christians make their religion quite unattractive. They do precisely the opposite of what Jesus taught them to do and they do it in His name. I think it’s quite ironic how Christians actually make me feel close to Jesus but definitely wanting to be as far from Christianity as I can get. I guess I'm seeing what Mahatma Gandhi saw. Abra. your hypocrisy is only superceded by your arrogance. The Bible and Christianity teaches that coming to Jesus is the point. Yet you pontificate everything else from the outside looking in. It says to you, repent, and be baptised. Before you spout your judgement from without, come in. It is the call to you. You have no business spouting that which you are not part of; Professing to know but not knowing your part in participation. Ranting as though you have the answers when all you have is questionable criticisms of things admittedly outside of the realm of your comprehension. The pontifical judge of things foreign to his person is a hypocritical oxymoron, Abra. Your blindness and permissiveness does not extend to using my posts to speak in the third person of me. Either address my post directly in bravery or abandon your cowardice when affronting things obviously incomprehensible. Who do you expect to answer your diatribe when your address is of my post? Gandhi? Get over yourself and sit down and think of something new to say about something that you either know something about first hand, or something that no one suspects you of feigning authority and command of the discipline spouted so offhandedly about. Grabbing things unwittingly and ignoring the context and relevance of the thread is bad enough, but assuming that your conclusory assumptions about the truth of Christian thought and doctrine and discipline as palpable is only humorous to those that know as little or less about the faith than you do. You have no affinity for Jesus and only cling to romantic delusions that you are somehow special and afforded unique and original means and access to identify with Jesus Christ as though you are meritoriously superior to the very faith itself. Your blasphemous idolatry of things too rich and consuming for you have deluded your self esteem, and given you the proud arrogance of a judge that thinks himself above the law. At the very least, you continuously project yourself of higher comprehension than the faithful and yet lack entrance and identity with the faith itself. To what end is your covetousness meant to flatter and entertain any, ABra? You are pathetically abhorrent in your contempt of things escaping your desire and lust for esteem as a herald. Herald your pantheism and leave judgement of Christianity to Christians. Choose or deny, but do not suppose credibility to teach that which is not your personal experience. Nothing you say is meritorious in your latest folly. It would take a book and a lifetime of reverse engineering of your psyche to correct your erroneous view. Jesus can accomplish that feat for you, but man cannot. YOU WILL HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION AT HIS FEET TO RECEIVE REPAIR. In the meantime, remember that when you respond to my posts, respond directly to my person in the first person and do not address me in the third person as an object of your contempt while soapboxing on my post as though I am observing you address someone else. Show some backbone and lose the cowardice. relevance? the cross is about perfection in Christ which is unavailable outside of Christ. None is righteous, not one. You are a liar to suppose that you are. Stay in context, Abra. Stay present in the conversation and on topic and know what you have entered into before you spout your vomitous foolishness. Your opinion is your own, so don't suppose its efficacy wll be affirmed or acknowledged pleasantly and confirmingly. Least of all from me. I am no flatterer. LOL.....do you actually read what you write before posting it? Abra is not the one in this thread telling people what they have to believe in order to come to God. You are, Wouldee. By the son or be damned?....please. Talk about arrogance. You have mastered the art not only of arrogance but of talking down to people with whom you disagree. You know, if spending eternity with the likes of people who profess to "know" is rivaled by the alternative, which would look something like spending eternity with people a little less sure of themselves, well--I'll take the latter, and be happy to face the consequences and results of that choice. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
Why the cross?
|
|
all have sinned and all err in their heart there is none righteous.....none. NOT ONE get over yourselves. you all fall down miserably in these threads and act like you are better than you are. no one is fooled except those that fool themselves. Pick me apart if you like, it won't change the fact that none of you that think you are above having screwed up have done so perfectly. You haven't, nor have I. But spouting that you are indignant about the truth being reminded you of your own fallability is a lie unto itself. You are an unrepentant liar that suggests that you are anything but fraught with error. And that lie seizes you whole even now. There is none perfect.....NONE. none righteous and anyone that supposes that they are is a liar. No one believes a liar, not even the liar. I'm wondering, at least to some extent why you feel like the people who question the unquestionable dogma think they are "better than?" And where did any of the posters above (myself included on previous threads) claim perfection, or that we were without human weaknesses. A "loving father" who sends his children to an eternal hell for failing to be perfect and then for failing to accept a "gift." Oh, you have got to be kidding? Who would do this? Would you? Would you send your own child to an eternal damnation for the worst of crimes? If an imperfect father wouldn't---how much more should a perfect father be repulsed by such a notion. This is logic, not dogma. There are people on this planet that I'm not fond of. But never, in my worst moment would I have failed to pull them from a burning car. And these are people I don't much like. Now, you want us to believe that a loving and powerful god, full of mercy and compassion could cast into a lake of eternal fire those for whom he claims the greatest love? I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else. But I also don't think I was born a poor miserable sinner guilty of crimes committed long before I took my first breath. I guess that is the major difference. -Drew hey Drew. You have a good memory. Better than most will admit. Going to hell is not meant for man, it is the toilet for used angels that reinvent the wheel. So, let's save the cookie cutter disengenuity about Christian doctrine out of my mouth, eh? Speak to me about my words, my friend, not another's. But there is a narrow scope to my words that basically could be summed up quite succinctly. Follow the bouncing ball here from the beginning. The premise of the rebuttal as being attempted was that the fallability inherent in man is a myth, as others here are well disposed to espousing in their points. I have a good memory too. Therefore, my point. No one is perfect and no one is righteous and no one is without error. I , for one, thought it prudent to remind us all of that, before this thread got overheated and thoroughly hijacked in a whiny bash of hate. It has all the players for a slam fest. So, let's just relax a bit and breathe it in with some decorum. As far as our major difference is concerned, I don't know where you can purpose that I have ever espoused that we are guilty of the errors of our ancestors. I do not hold that view. I hold that every individual is inherently imperfect and is an unmitigated liar to say that they are not corrupted by their own doings. You included, aand not by degree, Drew. It is just the way it is and if you dare to tell me otherwise, you are lying even more. Everyone is fallen and by their own doings. You are not perfect and are very far from it. So am I. That doesn't make what Jesus said a lie also. It proves what he says. We are all incapable of honestly standing up to His example set for us and the way he taught us to view ourselves and the world of man. That's what gets everyone bent out of shape. It's that we have no ground to stand on to refute or rebutt him except by saying that its a myth. Ludicrous nonsense, that. No one measures up. NO ONE!!!!!! NONE can overstep His words because everyone is a liar that says they are as good or better than He is. Live it and show the world, is what I say, then. I am not pouncing on you, but rather sharing what anyone has had 2000 years to dare to do. It can't and won't be done. Jesus' words are so powerful that man cannot possibly come up with a better measure of the need in man than he did. Don't tell me otherwise, just go find someone that can talk the talk and walk the walk in thier own name and put Jesus to shame. I won't follow him, but you might. I don't believe any man alive today or after today has nearly the sense or or content and character to be that original and genuine anymore. Spiritually, we have become a dying race that is corrupted beyond suststainability as a species. Not only that, but we are corrupting our own environment to the point that it cannot endure the natural order of flora and fauna for much longer. And don't get me in a pissing contest about how bright and wonderful you are. You are coherent enough to grasp what I am saying. Let the dogs tear the road kill. My point was simple and I know full well that you are smart enough to more than grasp my point. You answered a question in your response and I'm sure it was a question that someone asked--but it wasn't my question. My question was painfully simple and illustration of how unbelievably cruel one has to be as a father to allow a child to burn in hell. It is really that simple. And yes, these posts can be hijacked but I've more than defended people of faith when I think they are being "hit" for no reason. I will continue to do so. Thanks though--as always, interesting to read your thoughts. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
Why the cross?
|
|
all have sinned and all err in their heart there is none righteous.....none. NOT ONE get over yourselves. you all fall down miserably in these threads and act like you are better than you are. no one is fooled except those that fool themselves. Pick me apart if you like, it won't change the fact that none of you that think you are above having screwed up have done so perfectly. You haven't, nor have I. But spouting that you are indignant about the truth being reminded you of your own fallability is a lie unto itself. You are an unrepentant liar that suggests that you are anything but fraught with error. And that lie seizes you whole even now. There is none perfect.....NONE. none righteous and anyone that supposes that they are is a liar. No one believes a liar, not even the liar. I'm wondering, at least to some extent why you feel like the people who question the unquestionable dogma think they are "better than?" And where did any of the posters above (myself included on previous threads) claim perfection, or that we were without human weaknesses. A "loving father" who sends his children to an eternal hell for failing to be perfect and then for failing to accept a "gift." Oh, you have got to be kidding? Who would do this? Would you? Would you send your own child to an eternal damnation for the worst of crimes? If an imperfect father wouldn't---how much more should a perfect father be repulsed by such a notion. This is logic, not dogma. There are people on this planet that I'm not fond of. But never, in my worst moment would I have failed to pull them from a burning car. And these are people I don't much like. Now, you want us to believe that a loving and powerful god, full of mercy and compassion could cast into a lake of eternal fire those for whom he claims the greatest love? I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else. But I also don't think I was born a poor miserable sinner guilty of crimes committed long before I took my first breath. I guess that is the major difference. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Drew07_2
on
Fri 05/02/08 08:14 AM
|
|
I am not going to the research for anyone but you might want to take a look at how Mexico (just as an example and because it is relevant) treats those who illegally enter their country. Really, check it out. Check out the published deportation rates (it's staggeringly high) and look at the conditions. Try this--illegally enter Mexico and then try to organize a march down the streets of any Mexican city claiming that you are "owed" something. That we would most likely never again hear from you would be the kindest of fates.
I don't mind the debate or the many details that lie within. But when a nation with a deplorable record when it comes to human rights (including slavery. Yes, Mexico massively participated in the slave trade) waves a finger northward to talk about how bad America is to those who arrive here illegally, one really does need to consider the source. If the US dealt with illegal immigration the way Mexico currently does, this post and many like it would not be needed because there would be no problem. -Drew |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Topic:
confusion
|
|
It is not possible to post about religion without creating some type of emotion or opinion. It is too central to how many people live their lives. I don't really see a lot of "shove it down your throat" posters here. Seriously, this place is actually pretty calm in that regard. I do see a lot of (and I'm one of them) people defending their position/belief in the face of those who take a different position. I do agree with the OP here that people should not come here and then be offended by the fact that God is mentioned. But I also agree with Abra that efforts to create a singular pathway to God is not productive or the purpose of the forum.
I enjoy this forum--a lot of the responses are thoughtful and considerate. I've not had anyone try to "convert" me to anything and I've had opportunity to stop and evaluate a number of views. I think the real issue here is about agenda. If someone has an agenda here I think that will show itself immediately. If, on the other hand, someone comes here to discuss and learn then I think regardless of their beliefs they'll make the forums a better place. Just my .02 |
|
|
|
|
Previous
