You can't be serious.....listen again like I said if topic was about krisna alone then point taken...But it was not and you sir don't have the right nor are you appointed thread god to tell me how to post...How arrogant is that. I didn't hijack anything...if I don't believe that there is anyone but Christ like I said I am not going to addres the krisna part of this thread...why would I when I don't believe it.

I also have no control of what others put as you do not either...and if someone asks a question directly to me, I am going to answer it end of story...

And again obviously others are interested enough in my answers to ask question and if you don't like it...oh well again to bad. The only contradicting fact I have which I stated was that there is no other then Christ....God didn't say he had many god sons now did he and again I can only answer what I know to be truth...

I am staying on topic....as the first of the entire OP is Jesus...so I guess talking about Jesus is right on topic I would say.

I don't believe the similarities so I guess I will take it in the direction of satan now and false gods and prophets...

This is my original post......so where is this off the original OP


Now someone came and asked something after me referring to my post...which I answered......so where exactly did you have a problem with it..

Like I said before....It's all God's timing not ours....He has a reason always for waiting until he feels the time is right or never at all. I know from again my own experiences that everyone has trials, including me.....if he doesn't answer is he testing my loyality and my faith....could be...But here is the big difference for me...I never doubt God I give him 100% of my life. Always when something is not answered it is later revealed why through some other circumstance. And sometimes it is not and it might take 1 year 5 years or 50 years....It's not up to us to decide...But the people that get angry at God for not doing what they think he should...What is that telling God? Why did Jesus heal the leaper, or the blind man, why did as you think Christ pick this one over that one...It is not for us to know, but to have the utmost Faith that He has his reasons..

Everyone on this planet is loved by God and it is arrogant to think that God owes anything to anyone. But I know with all my heart that what God does is what is truly best. Now again you can't take man made problems and think that just because you say GOD why are all those children suffering why are all these people homeless etc. There is God's way and we can't even phanthom what that is...and to think you should or could is just imo wrong...

Why is it that everyone wants to blame God for everything?

But how many wake each new day and say thank you God for all that you do in my life?

Well darling then look up madamx7315 and ask for yourself...and oh really.....well maybe of better understanding of how God works here. He is the mighty healer, through him anything is possible. It is said that when two or more gather in his name (prayer) that Mighty things happen...Tell the man at my church who the doctors gave months to live not once not twice but 14 different times when different cancers riddled his body. Tell that to me when the Lord healed my breast cancer.....go and ask the doctors that were not only dumbfounded but whose mouths were on the floor....And remember sweet Thomas I am a witness to these miracles so there are no fabrications there are none of what you speak of.

I again can only speak for myself....I have studied many many religions. Circumstances led me to search and the Lord Jesus Christ was the one that answered...I was not young and as with my parents and my kids for me, nothing was ever shoved down my throat. I searched and found for myself. And through this searching and finding the Lord who I cried out to show me he was real....Which the Lord did. Now I don't care if people will come and say oh you think your that special that God spoke to you...I don't care because the fact of the matter is He did and He does. And for me to deny him and the faith I have in the Lord of Lords is through the search and my faith is unwavering.

I believe with all my heart, soul and mind, In God, Christ and the inate word of God the Bible...I do believe that God himself breathed life into the Bible and inspired every word from Genesis to Revelation. If people don't want this then ok.....but again for me....I will not deny the Lord his rightful place, and like in Acts I will go out into the world and make disciples of men.

Again I say to all who enters this thread. I do not follow the Lord my God blindly nor do I walk a path that is wide, but one that is narrow for the Lord has shown me and that is all I need. I have seen with my own eyes the miracles that are "His" right here on this sight I have seen athiest turn to God, cold hard unrelenting men, who through prayer and the word of God have seen the light. I have seen one so stricken with cancer here on mingle that the doctors said there was no hope....Again through prayer not only was there hope but complete healing and she has not only given her life to Christ but now is very involved in missions and the church. I have seen to much to ever deny that "He" is not exactly who "He" proclaims to be.

So call in Blind Faith or whatever you want....I see clear, I hear the Lord, so take a few minutes to ponder if perhaps the covering on your eyes is strong and the ears also, for it takes but a moment if it is truly of the heart for the Lord to take away the film of the eyes and the wax in the ears and stop and listen...truly listen.
Nothing will ever make sense, not the Bible not any of it...if like you said there is no open minds...but keep the covering over your eyes and ears and you could read the word millions of times and not have a clue. I give all the Glory to You Lord God and I humbly anoint and praise you for all that you do in my life, as well as on Mingle..In Your Mighty Name Lord AMEN.

Ok interesting here.....you have a post on Jesus vs. Krisna

Now I can't give you any other view then my own....so again call it a single view, single minded whatever...I can only post "MY" views. Did you not see where I also posted that anyone can believe anything they wish....So again same crap different day from you sir.

If I have ever received any "so called evidence the the bible is not true" then ok but thus far I have not...Every contradiction that has been brought to me I showed where they took a teeny piece of scripture out of context....so therefore again sir I can only go by what I know to be truth. I can't give you answer as a drakonian, I am not one, I can't give you answers as an Athiest, because I am not one....get the picture.

I cannot nor would not debate anything about Jesus, God, the Bible with anything other then what "I know" I can't answer as you Voil...because I am not you....If you have such an open mind will rooty tooty for you....I let others believe whatever gets them through the day....I have one single religion so therefore can only respond with answers that "I know to be truth for me"

And I find it rather rude that you think in your ever open mind that we can answer any other way then that which we know....So to say to be that the threads are "ONLY MEANT for those whom wish to explore in 'good faith', a number of perfectly legitimate general religion 'questions', all worthy of being DEBATED IN GOOD FAITH.

is lame

And you can answer any way you choose as I am entitled by the rules to do the same.....so again I say to you be very very careful before you cast stones my friend.

Now again I give all respect and kudos that you don't believe in the so called christian dogma......But am I not entitled to the same. And just FYI if this thread was krisna beliefs I never would of stepped in....But when Jesus....which is who and what I believe with all my heart, soul and mind is involved..then you can bet your sweet bippy I have every right to come in a voice my opinion and if you don't like it....oh well.....this is life sir....Bring up any thread with God, Christ and the Bible and I will here..

And again practice what you preach voil...because it's not you bashing the krisnas or the athiest or the drakodians but the Christian and if you do expect it to come back 10 fold.

It's also not a matter of exploring but the knowledge for me myself and I what I believe in. If people are wishy washy and don't know what it is they believe oh well I can't help that...But to think that I am going to come into a thread and say "Oh yes they are one in the same, when my Lord clearly states that "HE" is the only one then you sadly mistaken.

The following to me shows again the shallow single minded person that want himself to be right and damn what I so believe in....Well again not going to happen...and I find this disrespectful, of what I believe and furthermore you don't have that right.

Voil said:

To 'bash' the thread and state the obvious: '... I only believe in the bible because the bible is the only thing I believe in!!! ...' is redundant, disrespectful, and derails any chance of open minded debate.

My christian friend has told me that because i am a non-believer, and because someone i have recently fallen for is christian, that we will not work out for the long term.

He's even gone as far to say that because i am a non-believer, i am essentially unmarry-able by anyone at all who is a true christian.

what do you guys think...?

Its certainly not my position to criticize the beliefs of individuals. Thats an exercise in futility but what I dont fully understand is why Jesus (who there is absolutely no proof that he existed at all) is somehow placed on this pedestal as being the one true messiah put on this earth by god (yet he is god) and then all of these other different gods existed before him like Horus and Krishna and they have nearly the identical backgrounds and historical accounting of their lives? Why are they considered the "impostors" and not Jesus? I guess thats the million dollar question right there.

It doesn't really matter what the origins of the Biblical stories are. The stories themselves are untenable.

It makes no sense to claim to have a supposedly blameless God who's so jealous that he hates anyone who refuses to worship him.

He's already flawed with the worst of human pitfalls, jealousy and hate.

Whether the story was original or plagiarized is irrelevant. It's a flawed story either way.

Which of course is way ok....post away...Like I have told so many in the past....I put out information what people do with it is up to them....

Now first if your talking Orthodox Jew.....this is what they believe.


Belief in Deity
There exists only one personal God Almighty--creator, all-powerful, ever-present, and all-knowing--formless, incorporeal spirit.

Incarnations
None, as only God is worshipped. Moses was the greatest of all prophets.

Origin of Universe and Life
They hold to the book of Genesis literally, that God created the universe/life from nothing, in less than 7 days, less than 10,000 years ago; Adam and Eve were the first humans. But, some hold that a “day” in the Bible is not defined as 24 hours, and some believe that scientific discoveries don’t contradict but attest to God’s awesome power.

After Death
Traditional Judaism believes in the World to Come, the coming of the messianic age heralded by the messiah, and a resurrection of the dead, but beliefs vary on the details. Some believe souls of the righteous go to heaven, or are reincarnated, while the wicked suffer from a hell of their own making or remain dead. Some believe God will resurrect the righteous to live on earth after the Messiah comes to purify the world. Judaism generally focuses on strictly following God's commandments rather than on details of afterlife or rewards after death.

Why Evil?
No original sin. Most believe God created Satan as evil inclination, a tendency that lies within everyone. People also have awareness of and inclination toward goodness. Thus, God provides free will as a test of obedience and faith.

Salvation
Salvation is achieved through faith and continual prayer to God, strict adherence to divine commandments (Jewish Law), including dietary restrictions, to give to the poor, "love your neighbor as yourself," bring God’s message to humanity by example (a responsibility of God’s "chosen people"). Confessions and repentances are expressed through Yom Kippur when one fasts, asks forgiveness from others and from themselves, and commits to do good deeds in the future.

Undeserved Suffering
Sometimes it is believed that suffering is caused by a weakness in one’s devotion to God. Generally, it is believed that God gave humans free will to feel pleasure and pain, and His purpose in allowing deep suffering of the innocent must be good even if mysterious. God suffers along with the sufferer. Some Jews (e.g. the Hasidim) believe that suffering is punishment for past-life sins. Knowing why God allows suffering is not as important as knowing that God will punish the perpetrators.

Contemporary Issues
Judaism holds that human life begins upon first breath, and Jewish law requires abortion if necessary to save the mother’s life prior to birth. Most believe that potential human life should never be terminated casually, but abortion is generally regarded as a personal decision, especially within the first 40 days of pregnancy.


Now this above is very very true.....with one exception...Even in the time of Jesus, why he was even cruxified is because the sadasees and pharasees lived in Old Testament and traditions. The biggest mistake in doing so was denying Christ. When God and Christ were in heaven.....God had two choices destroy the world again which he promised Noah he would not do hence the rainbow or send his only son to live fully as a man and planned before all the Jesus did...Also note in Old Testament the prophecy of all that Jesus did was foretold long before he did. So God did just that he sent his only son to die on the cross so that we (Gentiles) and all that come have everlasting life. Jesus is still God's son and hence the miracles through his father and all that he did in his 3 years of ministry...But a man 100%. He had to be a man and live as a man in order to make in the end the greatest sacrafice for his Father....When God looked away from His Son in those final moments it was not because he didn't love Christ, it was because God loved us so much and could not look on His Son as he took on the Sin of the world.


Christ had no limitations whatever he set out to do or show was done....He could heal the blind, make the lame walk and just with a brush of the sleeve of his clothing....through His Father God. It is not ever a contradiction if you put all into the context in which it was done. God doesn't do contradictions only people do.

John 13:31
Jesus Predicts Peter's Denial When he was gone, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him.

Acts 2:22
"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Acts 4:10
then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

everyone is entitled to their opinions. I understand what morningsong is saying and if someone doesn't agree with her opinion....that i their right. but she is entitled to state her feelings and beliefs like everyone else is as long as it goes with the rules

OK.....One more time....

CHRISTIANITY is NOT about RELIGION !!!!!!

But RELATIONSHIP !!!

R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P ....BACK WITH GOD ALMIGHTY!!!

MADE AVAILABLE THRU CHRIST JESUS.

The ONE WHO IS The BRIDGE .....

THE ONE WHO CLOSES THE GAP....

BETWEEN MAN AND GOD....

AND

BRINGS MAN BACK

INTO FELLOWSHIP

AND

RIGHT STANDING

AND

RELATIONSHIP

WITH GOD ALMIGHTY ONCE MORE....


JUST LIKE IT WAS IN THE

BEGINNING!!!!!!!!!!

MAN MADE RELIGION!!!!!!!

NOT GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DON'T BLAME GOD FOR WHAT MAN DID NOW!!!

GOD WANTS A RELATIONSHIP BACK WITH HIS CREATION....

NOT NOT NOT SOME MAN MADE RELIGION!!!


!!!!!!...R---E---L---A---T---I---O---N---S---H---I---P...!!!!!!

Jeannie....Although I shared the article on

"son of man--son of God" ,

(because it gave scripture to back up what was said ) ,

I did not take time to check out the rest of the website.


Actually,

The Best and surest way ....

to find answers to questions regarding scriptures....

is not to go to the many websites out there...

but

to Always go straight to the Source itself....

The Word of God.

Franshade,

You are missing THE POINT!!!

'Itsy Bitsy Spider' doesn't contravene the first amendment of the Constitution of the USA.

The song you posted most squarely and obviously goes smack against the First amendment of the Nation's Constitution.

Teachers in the public school system are our the nations's ambassadors in front of our kids, to educate the on the 'rule of law' for which we are all responsible.

A teacher proposing such lyrics as you posted, to students, cannot possibly be naive enough to think it is just a song in the same line as 'itsy bitsy'.

More likely, we are talking about religious zealots whom keep 'testing' the constitutional wisdom of the land; '... seperation of church and state...', regardless of the very clear public school system legislation warning against it.

These 'teachers' are promoting their own religious opinion and perspective on the matter of US Constitution, when their first obligation is to respect the Constitutional law of the land, and their first 'duty' is to teach, and promote it as it stands. If they have disgreements with the law of the land, then they should approach members of congress and follow appropriate demacratic channels. This is what demacracy is for everyone. The last a teacher should do is putting his or her own personal views above the law of the land when acting as a teacher.

In that sense, the lawsuit is perfectly justified, considering that 'religious zealots' do not seem to understand any other language. Without a legal gesture, and the deterrent that must come with it, zealots would disregarding the law, and keep having a blast simply keep 'testing' the system as THEY see fit.

The question isn't whether or not the lawsuit is justified. It is more than justified. It could be said that there is no other means for parents whom are tired of 'calling' teachers and schools back to order. Without serious and clear deterrents, zealots will keep hypocrytically 'testing' the system.

The real question IMHO, which will remain unanswered, is ...
... 'what will it take for religious zealots and fundamentalists to wake up and start respecting the wise and very real laws of the land, as opposed to their personal and often delusional dogma???...'

Teaching is huge matter of trust and responsibility. When that trust is broken, as it often is, people have the obligation to take the means at their disposal to have what is right prevail.

Oh sweet Louise. I am the last person to promote nor excuse any sort of religious force feeding fanaticism whatsoever, but that clearly is not the case here.

Religion was not introduced, nor was religion being forced onto any student.

Now dont get me wrong what you or I call "God" is entirely up to us, whether we worship or we don't again up to us, but this is suit beyond ridiculous, want to make a statement fine, want others to know how you feel great, but to clog up the already backed up court sytem while seeking monetary compensation for 'damages' (in this instance) is beyond ridiculous to me.

As a parent if you feel your child shouldn't be exposed to a song you find inappropriate contact and handle it with the school, who removed the song and respected their wishes.

But what do I know

thats the song

http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-24/story/st_johns_parents_file_suit_over_school_song

I truly don't find this worthy of a lawsuit, they complained, school complied and they want damages because they learned a song. I say every parent should sue all schools, as the itsy bitsy spider promotes violence, afterall the rain wiped the spider out. Wait did that kill the spider, did it harm the spider, hmmm, maybe my child will suffer in latter years because of this song, ah ok, let's sue for it's all 'their' fault.

As for the radio, yes we have some control over what's played, contact radio station or turn off radio.

Just getting the chance to catch up here - sorry it took so long.

In the OP's original hypothesis - we are to "assume" that He lives a life free from "all sin", and yet never follows a religion (okay - I'll buy that one for the moment) and has never heard of Jesus.

Well - since it is a sin to reject the Holy Spirit's testamony about Jesus - the ONLY unforgivable sin by the way - it is quite contrary to think that using the bible as our standard to determine what sin even is (Else where does the term Heaven come from as the presumed destination) than we are confronted with presumtions that are contradicting the boundries of the original premise. Since the bible says that ALL have sinned, te original premise is already defeated - but since it is an HYPOTHESIS (that is - assumed to be TRUE) it would naturally follow that given biblical parameters - it is hardly unlikely that he would be rejecting Jesus - given that he has NEVER sinned - so we can safely conclude that he HAS accepted Jesus, else he stands in self-contradiction and HAS sinned by rejecting Him. Since heaven is an eternity spent with Jesus and God - it is a fooloish assumption to assume that the original individual in the original hypothesis incapable of knowing who Jesus was.

One doesn't need to be a scholar to see this David. All one needs do is read the text. A child can reason this out.

AdventureBegins.....here are some scriptures on

the very subject of your thread here:

...................


Mark 11:22-26 (King James Version)

22And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have FAITH IN GOD.

23For verily I say unto you,

That WHOSOEVER shall SAY unto this mountain,

Be thou REMOVED, and be thou CAST into the sea;

and shall NOT DOUBT in his HEART,

but shall BELIEVE that those things which he SAITH shall come to pass;

he SHALL HAVE whatsoever he SAITH.


24Therefore I say unto you,

What things soever ye DESIRE, when ye PRAY,

BELIEVE that ye RECIEVE them, and ye SHALL HAVE THEM .

25And when ye stand praying, FORGIVE , if ye have ought against any:

that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

26But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Theshortelktonman..in your photo, you appear to

be quite an intelligent young man, with a very caring

sensitive heart.

Just Be YOU ...Allow the special person you already are... to just shine thru!!!

Be Blessed Now,Theshortelktonman.

Dear Eljay,

You are showing serious signs of '... intellectual bankcrupty...'

The degree of twisting, misinterpretations, ignoring other people's simple points, and spinning a web of lies and deceit, is clearly pointing to someone 'spendng more intellectually than one is worth'.

And that my friend is the point you are missing, ignoring, by-passing, or simply incapable of 'getting'!!!

Your comments and observations lately are tainted with a degree of pompous 'self-importance' that is ridding your posts of any and all credibility.

To come back with :

'... What I determine the point is that you are making is attempting to guess what and how I think...'

... besides the fact that the formulation itself is most confused, is the clearest indication that you haven't a clue about the point being made.

I truly couldn't be less interested in '... what and how you think...' !!!
I simply read some posts on these forums, and address as respectfully as can be, some points of agreement, or points of incoherence, confusion and inconsistency as I see them.

My 'pro' or 'con' 2 cents worth against yours!!!
No more! No less!

Inside that 2 cents worth of ours, you do not have what it takes to lay or imply most of the 'claims' (very different than a personal opinion) that you make.

i.e.: let's say that : '... to you personally, that you have no doubt that the bible is the word of (YOUR) god, and therefore represents the foundation of your own personal faith...'
That experience of faith (dealing with that which IS NOT!!!) makes whatever you elevate your mind to believe 'as true', to be true FOR YOU, BUT NOT TRUE IN THE MATERIAL AND FACT-BASED WORLD.

The bible 'is the word of god' FOR YOU, as a personal belief, but it isn't true in fact. In fact, the bible is a book period. To imply anything else is being guilty of 'intellectual bankcrupty'.

'evolution is a religion', might be elevated as true to you, as a matter of personal belief TO YOU, but in fact, and in the real world, this claim is nothing other than a delusion. It has no foundation whatsoever. To imply anyting else as you do, is being guilty of 'intellectual bankcrupty'.

(your words) '... While there may be numerous Catholics who are christains - claiming to be a Catholic does not make one a christain. Ditto for Protestantism!!!...'

Again, elevate your mind to believe whatever you wish, but in fact, a catholic claiming he is a catholic, IS A CHRISTIAN.
Again, your own personal standards, viewpoint, moral judgment, based on your interpretation of the book on this matter, change nothing with the fact that catholics whom claim to be catholics, ARE CHRISTIANS!!! Again, to imply anyting else as you do, is being guilty of 'intellectual bankcrupty'.

We could go on endlessly picking statements and claims of yours which are oblivious to the 'FAITH - FACT' distinction, creating confusion, deceit, mischaracterizations, etc.
It wouldn't change the fact that they are all given by the syndrome of 'intellectual bankrupty', or insisting unintentionally in giving oneself a 'larger than can be supported' degree of self-importance.

That is the point you have been missing for the longest time. However YOU might value your faith, beliefs and convictions, which is your HUMAN privilege, the universe ISN'T a faith based orgamism, and couldn't care less.

And this is your reality. Merely claiming that your semantical understanding of how to quatfy the definition of words - does not make you right, and me wrong. It just comes down to you thinking a Catholic is a Christain because he says he's a Catholic - and I think a Christain involves something more than that, as I get my definition of christainity from the bible. I really don't know where you get yours from, as when I askyou to either demonstrate how my definition is wrong and yours is right - all i get from you is rhetoric.

I asked you to explain to me how Evolution is a science, and your response is that I'm intellectually bankrupt for not knowing this clear fact. Meanwhile - you don't demonstrate how this is true - it just is because - well - of your intellectual superiority. I mean - let's not cloud this issue by stating any facts. Just the mere mention of them is enough.

That's the thing with you Fundies - no explination is required.