"That bumper sticker that maybe you'll see on the next Subaru driving by -- an Obama bumper sticker -- you should stop the driver and say, 'So how is that hopey, changey thing working out for ya?'"

-Sara Palin

Not that I'm a big supporter of hers or anything but that made me laugh

I can see your having a meltdown over this issue.You keep saying over and over how this is all because of lack of choice and Christianity.The people debating this topic have all issued very important valid points that don't seem to have anything to do with Christianity yet we must keep reading your nonsense as how this is all about Christianity.Schools have rules.They probably have several hundred of them.Would it make any difference if this was a school in San francisco run by Godless Atheist?There is a million laws and rules in this country that trample all over everyone's first amendment rights.Everything from drinking,smoking,noise,dress code,lawns,nudity,etc.These rules and laws are put there because we have to have some sort of common ground on what the majority of people agree on and what they would like to see and not see in their cities and towns.Miss harmony brought up many important points concerning Christian music being played during graduation.I know I have followed many,many,cases where Christians could not pray or start clubs.Christians have to follow these rules and lose their first Amendment rights just like the gays do.I think instead of suing and making a big deal out of these rules.We need to pass laws to take these rules away.If the majority of people vote and don't want these rules taken away I think EVERYONE should abide by them.


You are born into a certain race.Be it Asian,Hispanic,African american,etc.You can not change that fact.You can pretend you are not of a certain race but it is plainly seen that you are of that certain race.People get discriminated and hated because of of all races around America including the white people.Laws have been passed to protect and help prevent discrimination based on race as the people have no choice in the matter to change their skin color.

There has never been any proof that anyone was born Gay.It is a lifestyle people choose by their own free will even if they are younger.Even if there was proof you were born gay how do you explain the fact that millions of gay people have Chosen to become straight and stay that way for the rest of their lives.Kinda of hard to make the argument that people are born gay and their brains are hard wired to stay gay yet one day they are gay and the next day they are not.It's kind of like a doctor saying this person has a permanent disease and can't be cured,then the next day he doesn't have this disease and is cured.

Are you also going to seriously tell me if someone was born gay and one day he or she decides to go straight,then we should put this person in counseling,give them medication,so they can go back to being gay again because that is what they claim to be born as? It's a ridicules thought and everyone from the ex gay person to the doctors to the psychiatrist would think you were nuts.I doubt you would get a shred of support from anyone if you were to force this person to take mandatory counseling.

I said it before and I will say it again.Being gay is not a right!If you are so worried about the RIGHTS of people why don't you sit down and read the Constitution and the Bill of rights to see what our rights are.You are not going to find a section that deals with Homosexual special rights.Homosexuality is not even mentioned in either one.So where these special rights are coming from you will have to show me.Every American gay or not has the same rights under the Constitution.The only extra rights(if that is what you want to call it)is given to people who practice religion.They have all the rights everyone else has but also has another right to practice their religion with out our government or anyone else taking it away.


Please,Please,read the court papers.It does not mention Christianity,or religion.It does not mention the ban on gay people or that gays have special rights or that their gay rights have been violated.It says her First amendment rights to express herself were violated(concerning her desire to wear a tuxedo).This whole fiasco is really about your first amendment right to wear clothes you want to wear.


The more you keep insisting that Christians are somehow the source of everyone's problems and that they somehow prevent Gay people from living a life they want to live just makes you look bad.Everyone in this world has a voice and a say so on what they believe.You can not take away someone's right to their own belief simply because you do not like it.

CAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT AND IS WELL KNOWN FOR FRAMEING PEOPLE FOR CRIMES THAT NEVER HAPPENED . NOW GO BACK TO YOUR DESK COMMISSAR ....

Being gay is not a choice. What you do with the born desire is.

People are born gay. If they choose to deny who they are to please society, which is terribly sad that they would have to, that is the choice they make.

If a person is sexually attracted to the same sex, they are born with this attraction and it shows up when they become sexual.

Being born gay or bi is completely natural and nothing be ashamed of. People who try to change them and make them feel shame are the problem. We need to silence those who try to make people feel ashamed of their natural selves. Instead of allowing them to continue their discrimination and tyranny of others.

oh my goodness,, you are so TOTALLY missing my point. The case of the girl who wanted to play AVE MARIA ,,was deemed religious because of the song being generally a religious song. STRICTLY because the song (of which she was only going to play the instrumental and not SING the lyrics)tied into religion, it was CENSORED and she was not given her choice of musical expression(an expression she insists she chose because of the beauty of the piece and NOT its religious message) and it was censored ONLY Because it was considered 'religious'.

Now, flip to this dance. This girl is who she is, she is attracted to females. She wanted to bring a girl to the dance and the school said no. The school, in effect, CENSORED her ability to choose her dates gender based upon her PREFERENCE(coming with a male FRIEND would have no more restricted her from being homosexual as me going with a female friend would restrict me from being a heterosexual or bi sexual).
The school thought it could mandate her PERSONAL preference for a date and the court said it couldnt. But in the other case, the school thought it could mandate the grads PERSONAL preference for a musical piece and the court says it wont even HEAR this girls case.

this is a terrible double standard regarding censorship of expression that basically supports that censorship if a tie can be made to 'religion' but not if it is tied to 'sexuality'

I think these double standards will someday be overturned and I just hope for that consistency to help folks see 'christians' with the same right to 'equal' treatment as anyone else.

I read the 12 page opinion by the federal judge that heard the case and nowhere in there is any mention of religion as being the cause of the schools actions. Not only that, the girl nor the ACLU ever made the argument that this is religiously motivated.

I know these types of cases give the religion haters a reason to speculate that it's the cause.

The facts of the case as provided by the ACLU and the judges opinion show religion had absolutely nothing to do with this.

lol,, use makeup,, seriously....?

ok now. Race is determined ASTHETICALLY in our culture,, sexual preference is not,, it is determined usually by observing ACTION.

ACTION is always a choice,, asthetics,, not so much.

Except I did not persist any such thing,,, I equated others right not to be exposed to my EXPRESSION of myself(because it is tied with a religion) as no LESS ridiculous than the choice not to be exposed to anyone elses expression of themself(by whom they CHOOSE to bring to a dance).

Certainly, if one can come to a school dance with whomever they wish, being protected from any guideline from the school of who that can be,,,another can play a song at a school graduation of whatever choice they wish(excluding vulgarity) and be protected similarly from guidelines from the school. Loving god is as much WHO I am as being homosexual is who someone else is. So its GREAT that a homosexual has the same right to show up at a dance with whomever they wish that a heterosexual does and it should also be that a CHRISTIAN should have the right to express the musical piece they wish to during a graduation with the same protection(separation of church and state ensures BOTH that the state does not give specific support to religion NOR hinder the personal religiious choice of others)

My point, in summary , was. This case may now be precedent for the rest of us not to be discriminated against for WHO We are,, even if who we are is a Christian.

As is the case with being heterosexual, being homosexual has nothing to do with faith, beliefs, or religious dogma.

As an analogy, if a religion, as a part of its ridiculous dogma, claimed that 'blacks' were an abomination in the eyes of god', and that its followers were to 'feel violated' in their rights, being in the presence of blacks that didn't 'paint their faces white' (to stay true to the situation at hand),
... we would all, and I mean unanimously, find the delusional followers of that faith 'out to lunch' (I hope)!!!

You can personally and privately believe what you wish, BUT DON'T CONFUSE IT WITH THE REALITY OF EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL HUMAN BEINGS: the fundamental rights of a human being, regardless of sexual orientation, TRUMPS PERSONAL CHOICES AS TO WHAT ONE WISHES TO HOLD AS RELIGIOUS BELIEFS!!!

It is a fundamental and intrinsic aspect of being human beings, for both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
It is not a 'choice' in the eyes of the law. Not anymore than being white, or black would ever be considered a 'choice'!!!

While you and all other free nations citizens are afforded the freedom to believe, and not believe, one's beliefs or non-beliefs has absolutely NOTHING to do with the rule of law (law affords rights to practice faith, BUT IT IS NOT BASED ON FAITH).

Christian fundamentalists persist in their personal beliefs that 'homosexuality' is an abomination, and PERSIST in this delusion that homosexuals, BEING just what they are, 'homosexuals', IS AN ABOMINATION IN FACT!!! That is a pure delusion!!!

IT IS NOT SO NOW, AND IT IS NOT EVER GOING TO SO IN REAL LIFE, FOR 'RULE OF LAW' AND HUMAN RIGHTS FOUNDED 'FREE NATIONS'.

Homosexuals, just like heterosexuals, or transsexuals, are all equal human beings, with absolute equal rights under the law. And as such, their 'human beingness' will never represent a possible infringement of the equal rights of other equal human beings!!! Let's all get real. There is limit to twisting everything around to fit delusional religious doctrine.

Again, EQUAL RIGHTS AFFORDED ALL HUMAN BEINGS, TRUMPS ABSOLUTELY ANY RELIGIOUS CHOICES OF BELIEFS, ALWAYS!!!
One 's religious dogma cannot discriminate against the fundamental rights of another human being. That in part, is why a secular morality has displaced church and religion dogma with the emergence of free and democratic Nations.

... and that important change in civilized nations, has happened a few hundred of years ago. It would high noon to get with the program!!!

HOMOSEXUALS ARE 100% HUMAN BEINGS, and as such, ARE AFFORDED FULL EQUAL HUMAN (being) RIGHTS. No religious rights will ever trump that universal principle in the FREE NATION PARADIGM!!!

I'm afraid msharmony that anyone whom persists in claiming that their RIGHTS OF RELIGIOUS PRACTICE are violated simply by 'being exposed to homosexuals being homosexual', ARE JUST plain bigots, demonstrating an extreme degree of INTOLERANCE, and ultimately are guilty of discrimination toward EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS!!!

and god bless you devil

Except I did not persist any such thing,,, I equated others right not to be exposed to my EXPRESSION of myself(because it is tied with a religion) as no LESS ridiculous than the choice not to be exposed to anyone elses expression of themself(by whom they CHOOSE to bring to a dance).

Certainly, if one can come to a school dance with whomever they wish, being protected from any guideline from the school of who that can be,,,another can play a song at a school graduation of whatever choice they wish(excluding vulgarity) and be protected similarly from guidelines from the school. Loving god is as much WHO I am as being homosexual is who someone else is. So its GREAT that a homosexual has the same right to show up at a dance with whomever they wish that a heterosexual does and it should also be that a CHRISTIAN should have the right to express the musical piece they wish to during a graduation with the same protection(separation of church and state ensures BOTH that the state does not give specific support to religion NOR hinder the personal religiious choice of others)

My point, in summary , was. This case may now be precedent for the rest of us not to be discriminated against for WHO We are,, even if who we are is a Christian.

The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.
--Adolf Hitler

All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.
--Adolf Hitler

\

the same place which gives them the right to tell anyone when or where they can express their faith... I hope this sets a precedent for christian students to start suing to express their beliefs at school events..

I have to disagree here with the definition of a RIGHT, rights do not protect people from PERSONAL attacks, they protect them from legal ones. The law does not allow assaults on anyone, or discrimination at work either. The law also allows gay people to adopt,, it happens quite often if you take a look at the celebrity world. As far as living life like everyone else does,, homosexuals do that too,,,everyone else faces some type of bigotry and obstacles in their life...

I think the point is being missed. We are not talking about a CLASS at school, or schoolbooks that other students have, or a desk,,,,we are talking about a SCHOOL DANCE..which is a privilege to begin with and not a RIGHT. schools can and do choose or not choose to have dances all the time

AND

because the dance was cancelled for EVERYONE she cant prove that she was specifically discriminated against or that the dance was cancelled because of her lifestyle as opposed to being cancelled because of the unwanted publicity the story brought to the dance,,

Sorry for all the 'personal freedom' and 'gay rights' positions, but it's the SCHOOL's policy, property, and responsiblity (remember that word ... ?) She has the court-mandated 'right' to be gay - she does NOT have the right to tell or expect everyone else to agree, support, or make her choice a 'special rights' case. She loses. Life's a ***** sometimes ... learn it - love it - live it.

As far as Christianity.Yes Christians can discriminate and we are supposed to discriminate as if we didn't we would be the same as atheist.Our faiths,values,and morals don't get thrown out the window simply because we walk into a public building.We don't want to be part of Atheism or the gay lifestyle.You can't force us to give up everything we believe in simply because you say so.How ironic how I keep reading about how Christians are brainwashed and stupid.Yet these same people think that Christians should be brainwashed into their way of thinking.Quite a double standard of thinking.

Gays don't have any more rights than any other American.It's a lifestyle that is chosen to live.If gays have special rights in the Constitution or the Bill of rights I would love to read about it because I don't remember reading it anywhere.

We do however have the freedom of religion...Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.That means if the gays and the ACLU are demanding we lose our faith and values because of what they tell us to do they are violating our rights to express our freedom of Religion.We have the rights it is in the Bill of rights.

I don't see much difference between Hitlers way of thinking and the Gay mafia.They both wanted religion destroyed and freedom of speech and thought re-written to suit their needs.Gays love to speak of tolerance but show nothing but hate to those who oppose them.

BS.

number 1. The government intends to take money from you to pay for my insurance. (form of single payer) And it will fine me (I don't want the dammmm insurance) or put me in jail (I DON'T WANT THE DAMMMM INSURANCE).

number 2. Government will heavily regulate the insurance industry(sounds like a government take over to me).

number 3. Yep the individual mandate (I loose my right of responsible free choice and folks celebrate... aint life grand).

number 4. I have lost my freedom so 6% of Americans can get a handout.

number 5. The vast majority will see increases in premimums as insurance companies try to make up profit lost because of the loss of revenue from prexisting conditions.

I think that bout covers it.

Once you filter out the pretty words and dig into the meat of the bill you see it for what it is. Outhouse paper.

but hey.

I have lost my freedom.

I am waiting for november to change that fact in a peaceful way.

If november makes no difference I intend to change that fact the way my ancestors did.