Topic: The Iraq war costs $720 million per day
TheLonelyWalker's photo
Sun 03/23/08 05:38 PM


fighting for "freedom" and "democracy" it's the worst lie this government has endoctrinated its people through years.
Back in the 60's and 70's with the same BS as an excuse in Latin America (I can't talk about this because though I did not passed through it my parents did it) the US government supported dictators such as Pinochet in Chile, Trujillo in Dominican Republic, Peron in Argentina, Noriega in Panama (he went out of NOrth American control), etc.
These men were the most blood thirsty individuals that our countries experienced in those decades and who supported them "Big Daddy" with which excuse "democracy."
Same BS as in Iraq.
Now "Big Daddy" is fighting a war against drugs in Colombia, and they had to put a military base in my country (Ecuador) with the excuse of logistics. And the damn government of my country allowed it. Because if not "Big Daddy" was going to sanction us with penalties in the trade of goods from my country to US.
Conclusion, this glorious country don't ask permission, this glorious country just goes there and do whatever it wants depending upon its political, strategical, and economical interests.
If this government is so humanitarian why don't they send help to Somalia, Kennya, or many other countries which really need this help. Simply because there is no political, strategical, or economical interest in those countries so as far as the politicians in Washington those people can go straight to hell.
Then again I want to restate that I admire the North American soldiers because they really believe they are doing something good, and in a small picture they are doing something good. HOwever, in the military don't teach them to see the big picture. The picture that just outsiders with a more clear view can see.

TLW

Well at least your people had the ability to say no. I would love to see a few hundred thousand soldiers move out of Guantanamo and free my family.At least you can visit your family?

r u cuban?

IndianaJoans's photo
Sun 03/23/08 05:56 PM
Edited by IndianaJoans on Sun 03/23/08 05:57 PM
My parents were Cuban immigrants. I was born here.flowerforyou I am an American and yes I am of Cuban heritage.

TheLonelyWalker's photo
Sun 03/23/08 06:01 PM
well I love cuban people they have endured a lot of suffering.:heart: flowerforyou

IndianaJoans's photo
Sun 03/23/08 06:04 PM

well I love cuban people they have endured a lot of suffering.:heart: flowerforyou

flowerforyou flowerforyou flowerforyou flowerforyou Thank you

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/23/08 06:37 PM

My parents were Cuban immigrants. I was born here.flowerforyou I am an American and yes I am of Cuban heritage.
I am curiouse as to what you think of our econmic embargo against cuba and our huge trade with china both nations being communist?

IndianaJoans's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:08 PM
Edited by IndianaJoans on Sun 03/23/08 07:14 PM


My parents were Cuban immigrants. I was born here.flowerforyou I am an American and yes I am of Cuban heritage.
I am curiouse as to what you think of our econmic embargo against cuba and our huge trade with china both nations being communist?

Chinese are allowed to make more money by working harder and buy cell phones and cars and increase their quality of life but Cubans cannot. Cubans are issued ration cards to help buy food but the government dictates their pay. Yes they have free education and free medical but it is not a model to copy. Cubans want less government control in their lives. There is no freedom of the press or freedom of speech. They have been communist for decades and are ignorant to any other way. The people are too used to being told what they need and having it given to them. They have been through a lot as a result of communism and it would be devastating for them to have an abrupt change to capitalism. It would destroy the economy which is in poverty at best.Cubans want to be free but for now they would be happy with less governmental control. I know little of how the Chinese feel about communism. Thank you for askingflowerforyou
Sorry I forgot about the embargo. It is silly in my opinion. I think if it was lifted it would eventually be the end of Castro's regime and would eventually lead to un golpe de Estado. Overthrowing the government.

Lindyy's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:13 PM
Edited by Lindyy on Sun 03/23/08 07:15 PM

Sorry to hit and run but, things to do , I just wanted to put my 2 pennies in here.


how many people could eat with that?
how many children could go to school with that?
how many diseases can be eliminated with that?
yet the Powerful wants more power, and the Wealthy wants more wealth.


How many people are eating because of that?
How many kids are going to school because of that?
How many vacines are being giving out bcause of that?
and yet those who say they are for humanity would rather see more innocents sqandered because they themselves feel they are being jipped out of some free government welfare handout.

I know Im going to catch hell for this one too. but, how many strving kids do you know in america....really how many? and if you do know any, why arent you feeding them. Or does the call for charity only come at the cost of someone else, put up or shut up.
How many kids in america do you know who arent going to school? why arent they in school? do we have to drag them out of the home and make them go? isit there parents fault for not making them go? is the fault of the government for them not getting up and going to school. there are laws you know that require them to go to school, or be signed out by the parent for home schooling, special needs what have you. so if they arent going to school someone needs a butt whooping.
How many diseases could be cured? your kidding right? they have been working on cancer for how long, thrown how much money at it, yet still around, aids, same thing. Its almost like someone with a gambling addiction- this is my last dollar im putting it in the machine it will be the one....im going to hit with this one....dope! dammit missed out.
ad with a price tag of 720 mil (which i think is scewed- some of that money counted is money that was going to be spent anyway one soldiers pay whether it was there or here didnt matter) but with price tag 720 (using your numbers mad) sounds like the wealthy are losing more than you or I. I know i dont have that kind of cheddar laying around the house.

we're not destitute, we're not indigent, we're not lying naked on the bathroom floor. We are just fine, take a breath. so what if some people need to stop spending like they are paris hilton or donny trump, guess what your not! No one told you, or twisted your arms and said go spend like mad and max out all your credit cards, and dont save. oh wait a minute, they did say dont save didnt they, the democrats, "we will provide for you, you will have social security to take care of you, go be crazy have fun you nutty kids" and you listened to the lie....who's fault was that again? George take your cards on a spending spree at the mall? did you really need the xbox360 and the PS3? How many of you are on new computers right now? on high speed dls broad band wireless whatever? hopw many new shoes in your closets, how many new jeans shirts purses, cars in the driveway?
People YOU have to take responsibility for yourselves. this is still the best country on the planet, if you see someone in need, why cant you help them, how on earth did our parent grandparent great grandparents on down ever manage to live without the handouts from the government? hmmm...
your grown ups, you should be realist, not day dreamers of could of would of.....
you get on these pittypat party tantrums preaching about how "oh me the poor and the helpless people all this suffering" but yet when people are helping those poor suffering people its like your some jeckyl and hyde..."screw those people i meant me"
which is it?

are you for womens lib? we are busting down the brickwalls that are oppressing women in iraq.
are you for feeding the hungry? we are giving them more than rice lifting at least that part of their socio economic levels, and any social worker can tell you that poor nutrition in poor socio economic families can and does lead to greater health problems, so we're killing two birds with one stone- and saving money in the long run.

Cry me a river bleeding heart liberals, bleeding supposedly for everyone else, but really, in a reality check.... the greedy ones in this country are you. the things you claim to be for you could give two rats less about. but it looks good on paper doesnt it, sounds good, makes you sound and look good...until you have go and tell someone that your utopian orwellian world really was just a dream and now its time to be realist.


peace from a baby killing war mongering, progandist with a rich millionaire daddy agenda that you can stick in your , "oh its a peace pipe" and smoke away.


im out this boitch




doc



Lindyy says:

NO ONE can say it better than DOC!

Thanks Doc. Wherever you are, God Be With You:smile:

Lindyy
:heart: :heart:

IndianaJoans's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:30 PM
God bless everyone and good night!flowerforyou

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:31 PM
I am suprised doc hadnt noticed that the women in Iraq do not have to wear those all covering garments as they do in Saudi arabia and I am wondering how he hadnt noticed that Iraqi women go to collage and have had that privladge for many years and work in all types of places, exactly what oppresive womens rights doors are you kicking in doc? compared to the rest of the middle east Iraqi woman are as liberated as they can be but thats just one part of your comical tirade that is worth mentioning being that it is late and Iam tired it will have to do for now

Lindyy's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:33 PM
Lindyy says:

Conservative:

Stands for politicaly: LOW taxes, SMALL government, family values, moral values, fiscally responsible

Dictionary:

disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

cautiously moderate or purposefully low: a conservative estimate.

traditional in style or manner; avoiding novelty or showiness: conservative suit.

having the power or tendency to conserve; preservative.

a preservative.

SO, WHAT DO YOU NOT LIKE ABOUT THE ABOVE?



I'm a Republican Because......

I BELIEVE the strength of our nation lies with the individual and that each person's dignity, freedom, ability and responsibilty must be honored.

I BELIEVE in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, sex, age or disability.

I BELIEVE free enterprise and encouraging individual initiative have brought this nation opportunity, economic growth and prosperity.

I BELIEVE government must practice fiscal responsibility and allow individuals to keep more of the money they earn.

I BELIEVE the proper role of government is to provide for the people only those critical functions that cannot be performed by individuals or private organizations and that the best government is that which governs least.

I BELIEVE the most effective, responsible and responsive government is government closest to the people.

I BELIEVE Americans must retain the principles that have made us strong while developing new and innovative ideas to meet the challenges of changing times.

I BELIEVE Americans value and should preserve our national strength and pride while working to extend peace, freedom and human rights throughout the world.

FINALLY, I believe the Republican Party is the best vehicle for translating these ideals into positive and successful principles of government.


Lindyy
:heart: :heart:

madisonman's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:42 PM
besides being off topic and in the wrong thread?laugh

IndianaJoans's photo
Sun 03/23/08 07:44 PM
Edited by IndianaJoans on Sun 03/23/08 07:47 PM

I am suprised doc hadnt noticed that the women in Iraq do not have to wear those all covering garments as they do in Saudi arabia and I am wondering how he hadnt noticed that Iraqi women go to collage and have had that privladge for many years and work in all types of places, exactly what oppresive womens rights doors are you kicking in doc? compared to the rest of the middle east Iraqi woman are as liberated as they can be but thats just one part of your comical tirade that is worth mentioning being that it is late and Iam tired it will have to do for now


Iraqi Women Under Saddam's Regime: A Population Silenced

Situation for Women in Saddam's Iraq
In 1979, immediately upon coming to power, Saddam Hussein silenced all political opposition in Iraq and converted his one-party state into a cult of personality. Since then, his regime has systematically executed, tortured, imprisoned, raped, terrorized, and repressed the Iraqi people. Iraq is a nation rich in culture, with a long history of intellectual and scientific achievement, especially among its women. However, Saddam Hussein's brutal regime has silenced the voices of Iraq's women, along with its men, through violence and intimidation.

In Iraq under Saddam, if you are a woman, you could face:

Beheading. Under the pretext of fighting prostitution, units of "Fedayeen Saddam," the paramilitary organization led by Uday Hussein, Saddam's eldest son, have beheaded in public more than 200 women throughout the country, dumping their severed heads at their families' doorsteps. Many families have been required to display the victim's head on their outside fences for several days. These barbaric acts were carried out in the total absence of any proper judicial procedures and many of the victims were not engaged in prostitution, but were targeted for political reasons. For example, Najat Mohammad Haydar, an obstetrician in Baghdad, was beheaded after criticizing the corruption within health services. (Amnesty International Report, Iraq: Systematic Torture of Political Prisoners, August 2001; Iraqi Women's League in Damascus, Syria)

Rape. The Iraqi Government uses rape and sexual assault of women to achieve the following goals: to extract information and forced confessions from detained family members; to intimidate Iraqi oppositionists by sending videotapes showing the rape of female family members; and to blackmail Iraqi men into future cooperation with the regime. Some Iraqi authorities even carry personnel cards identifying their official "activity" as the "violation of women's honor." (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; Iraq Research and Documentation Project, Harvard University)

Torture. The Iraqi Government routinely tortures and kills female dissidents and the female relatives of Iraqi oppositionists and defectors. Victims include Safiyah Hassan, the mother of two Iraqi defectors, who was killed after publicly criticizing the Iraqi Government for killing her sons after their return to Iraq. Women in Saddam's jails are subjected to the following forms of torture: brutal beatings, systematic rape, electrical shocks, and branding. (U.S. Department of State, Country Reports on Human Rights Practices-2001, March 2002; U.S. Department of State, Iraq: A Population Silenced, December 2002)

Murder. In 1990, Saddam Hussein introduced Article 111 into the Iraqi Penal Code in a calculated effort to strengthen tribal support for his regime. This law exempts men who kill their female relatives in defense of their family's honor from prosecution and punishment. The UN Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women reported that more than 4,000 women have been victims of so-called "honor killings" since Article 111 went into effect. (UN Commission on Human Rights, Report of the Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women, January 2002)

U.S. Support for Iraqi Women
All people deserve to live in freedom, including the men and women of Iraq. On March 6, 2003, a group of free Iraqi women met with Vice President **** Cheney, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky, and Ambassador at Large for a Free Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad. The women shared their experiences under Saddam's reign of terror. As this group made clear, Iraqi women are eager to participate in the process of building a peaceful, democratic post-Saddam society. They want their society to once again be based on progressive Iraqi traditions and values. They believe in the universal principles of human rights.

As in Afghanistan, the United States Government is prepared to help Iraqis with the priorities and projects that they identify as the best way to achieve their goals. We will continue to meet with Iraqi women and exchange ideas about their path forward. As Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs Paula Dobriansky stated after her recent meeting with a group of free Iraqi women: "It is clear that the women of Iraq have a critical role to play in the future revival of their society. They bring skills and knowledge that will be vital to restoring Iraq to its rightful place in the region and in the world."
We are all sisters and YES they were oppressed.sick
But the way they treated women is ok because I did not see anything about that horrible waterboarding which would have made rape and murder look like a day of shopping at the mall. j/kgrumble

Lindyy's photo
Sun 03/23/08 08:20 PM

besides being off topic and in the wrong thread?laugh



madman:

The following is what I was referring to posted by Toasted several 'posts' back, I simply did not originally quote his post:



...."I AM NOT A DEM, i just dislike conservatives strongly....."


Lindyy:
:heart:


no photo
Sun 03/23/08 08:20 PM

exactly what oppresive womens rights doors are you kicking in doc?

noway noway noway



flowerforyou flowerforyou flowerforyou
Indiana Joans it couldn't be any clearer to me which doors needed to be kicked down when it comes to Iraqi women's freedoms in Iraq!!!




madisonman's photo
Mon 03/24/08 02:03 AM
meanwhile in saudi arabia............laugh

Wiccancowboy's photo
Mon 03/24/08 03:11 AM
Edited by Wiccancowboy on Mon 03/24/08 03:12 AM

who did call the USA to intervene?
was it a unilateral action or the iraqi people requested help from this glorious country?
or was intelligence services who said that iraq was dangerous?
didn't these same sources said a while after the war started that they may have had wrong information?
mmmmmmmmm i still quite don't understand what was the primary objective of the mission. sincere and honestly.

WMD's if i remember correctly my friend

no photo
Mon 03/24/08 04:25 AM
Indiana;

So what exactly are you trying to point out there? That something *good* actually came out of the Iraqi wars? That a social situation has possibly been redeemed in the slightest? Surely you could not mean to tell us that a segment of Iraqi population actually have more liberty and freedom now, than when they lived under the benevolent, peaceful, altruistic rule of Saddam?

Sarcasm mode off now - Sorry Indiana - I am glad you posted.

*SOME* folks around here have seem to forgotten, living in Camelot as they do, that some really *innocent* people got hurt, raped, and murdered in Iraq while they p*ss, moan and complain about some poor "innocent" (read - idiotic) Canadian was complaining someone played mind games with him by threatening rape after he was with a group tossing grenades around.

And let's clear up ONE little misconception - It is NOT Doc's duty, nor any other military personnel's duty to "Kick in women's right's doors"

It *IS* their duty to see that the one who *should* be doing it, have the freedom to do so, without someone like Saddam torturing, raping or killing them. You can pick out the groups that *should* it would matter little to me.


mnhiker's photo
Mon 03/24/08 09:35 PM

u have been very well endoctrinated by your drill sargent, my friend. no sense in debating with you.


MMkay....in doc's defense. He has more real (unbiased)information than anyone else here. This is due to his being on the ground as we speak and actually seeing with his own two eyes what is really going on. To call this a "blind" or abrainwashed perspective would be the result of.....well....lets just say, not thinking things through. Abc, CNN, FOX, or any network by that matter can bite me.


laugh laugh laugh laugh

I admire your honesty. Yeah, a lot of what the networks say is so much bullshyt!!!

no photo
Tue 03/25/08 02:38 AM
and you wonder why your health care is sh*t???noway laugh laugh noway

Jess642's photo
Tue 03/25/08 02:39 AM
Oh that's the illegal immigrants' fault, didn't you know???

laugh laugh laugh :wink: