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| Topic: The Iraq war costs $720 million per day | |
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umm...ok, your point?
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Edited by
karmafury
on
Sat 03/22/08 10:32 PM
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u have been very well endoctrinated by your drill sargent, my friend. no sense in debating with you. MMkay....in doc's defense. He has more real (unbiased)information than anyone else here. This is due to his being on the ground as we speak and actually seeing with his own two eyes what is really going on. To call this a "blind" or abrainwashed perspective would be the result of.....well....lets just say, not thinking things through. Abc, CNN, FOX, or any network by that matter can bite me. yeah, but US deaths in Iraq approach 4,000 By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 22, 7:07 PM ET BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb killed three American soldiers north of Baghdad on Saturday, pushing the U.S. death toll in the five-year conflict to nearly 4,000. Also Saturday, Iraqi authorities reported that a U.S. airstrike north of the capital killed six members of a U.S.-backed Sunni group — straining relations with America's new allies in the fight against al-Qaida. Two Iraqi civilians also died in the roadside bombing, which occurred as the Americans were patrolling an area northwest of the capital, the U.S. military said in a statement. Two of the soldiers were killed in the blast and the third died of wounds, the statement said. The soldiers were assigned to Multinational Division-Baghdad, the statement said, but gave no further details. The latest deaths brought to 3,996 the number of U.S. service members and Pentagon civilians who have died since the war began on March 20, 2003, according to an Associated Press count. Rocket or mortar fire killed one U.S. soldier and wounded four others Friday south of Baghdad, the military said. With the war entering its sixth year, President Bush paid tribute Saturday to America's fallen service members, saying in his weekly radio address that they will "live on in the memory of the nation they helped defend." Speaking for the Democrats, however, Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey called on Bush to "face the reality" in Iraq and "tell us the truth" about the cost of the conflict as America is struggling with a faltering economy and mounting casualty tolls. U.S. officials have pointed to a number of positive signs, including a 60 percent drop in violence since Bush ordered 30,000 U.S. reinforcements to Iraq early last year. Iraqis have also made some limited progress in power-sharing deals among rival Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish communities. However, U.S. military commanders have been careful to point out that security gains are fragile and that major violence could erupt abruptly. Much of the progress has been due to a move by thousands of Sunnis to abandon the insurgency and join pro-U.S. defense groups — known as "awakening councils." Another was a cease-fire called last August by firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, leader of the feared Mahdi Army militia. On Saturday, a U.S. attack helicopter fired on two checkpoints manned by U.S.-allied Sunni fighters near Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, killing six and injuring two, Iraqi police said. The U.S. military said an AH-64 Apache helicopter fired on the positions after five people were "spotted conducting suspicious terrorist activity" in an area notorious for roadside bombs. "Initial reports suggested the attack may have been a Sons of Iraq checkpoint," the military said, using a term for the armed U.S.-backed groups. "The incident is currently under a joint Iraqi-Coalition Force investigation." A local official of the U.S.-backed group said the attack occurred about two hours after American soldiers stopped at the two checkpoints to meet the Sunni fighters. "They asked us general questions like: 'Have you gotten your IDs?' and 'Do you need anything?' and then they left," Sabbar al-Bazi told The Associated Press. "Two hours later, after I had gone home, I heard two explosions, probably caused by two missiles, and machine-gun fire from a helicopter." Lt. Col. Dhiya Mahmoud Ahmed, an Iraqi military officer in charge of security in the area, said he told the Americans after the attack that he had been aware of the friendly checkpoints for two days. AP Television News footage of the aftermath showed awakening council members loading bodies into a pickup. Their faces were masked and they wore bright yellow vests — apparently to identify themselves for U.S. forces as members of friendly groups. Bloodstained rocks and bits of flesh could be seen around the checkpoint. U.S.-funded awakening councils, which first sprung up in Anbar province west of Baghdad and spread to Baghdad and surrounding areas, are composed of ex-Sunni insurgents who turned against al-Qaida in Iraq and joined forces with the Americans. But the Shiite-dominated leadership in Baghdad has been ambivalent toward the mostly Sunni councils, fearing they could turn against the government as America draws down its forces. In Baghdad, members of Sunni awakening councils in the west of the capital have complained that they have not been paid for months and have threatened to withdraw their support for the government unless they receive their money within days. At the same time, tensions have been rising within the majority Shiite community as rival factions maneuver for position ahead of provincial elections expected this fall. A bomb exploded Saturday on a minibus in a predominantly Shiite area of eastern Baghdad, killing at least one passenger and injuring eight, including a woman, police said. Late Saturday, bombs exploded at four offices of the Iraqi Red Crescent Society in the Mansour district of Baghdad, causing damage but no casualties. The Red Crescent Society is the Muslim world's equivalent of the Red Cross. A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol also killed one passer-by and injured seven, including five officers, in the northern city of Kirkuk, police said. An awakening council member in western Baghdad's Mansour neighborhood was killed and four others were injured in a mortar blast, police and hospital officials said. It's a war!! They don't throw flowers at each other. I'll take the word of Doc and Drivinmenutz before CNN, ABC, NBC etc. |
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u have been very well endoctrinated by your drill sargent, my friend. no sense in debating with you. MMkay....in doc's defense. He has more real (unbiased)information than anyone else here. This is due to his being on the ground as we speak and actually seeing with his own two eyes what is really going on. To call this a "blind" or abrainwashed perspective would be the result of.....well....lets just say, not thinking things through. Abc, CNN, FOX, or any network by that matter can bite me. yeah, but US deaths in Iraq approach 4,000 By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer Sat Mar 22, 7:07 PM ET BAGHDAD - A roadside bomb killed three American soldiers north of Baghdad on Saturday, pushing the U.S. death toll in the five-year conflict to nearly 4,000. Also Saturday, Iraqi authorities reported that a U.S. airstrike north of the capital killed six members of a U.S.-backed Sunni group — straining relations with America's new allies in the fight against al-Qaida. Two Iraqi civilians also died in the roadside bombing, which occurred as the Americans were patrolling an area northwest of the capital, the U.S. military said in a statement. Two of the soldiers were killed in the blast and the third died of wounds, the statement said. The soldiers were assigned to Multinational Division-Baghdad, the statement said, but gave no further details. The latest deaths brought to 3,996 the number of U.S. service members and Pentagon civilians who have died since the war began on March 20, 2003, according to an Associated Press count. Rocket or mortar fire killed one U.S. soldier and wounded four others Friday south of Baghdad, the military said. With the war entering its sixth year, President Bush paid tribute Saturday to America's fallen service members, saying in his weekly radio address that they will "live on in the memory of the nation they helped defend." Speaking for the Democrats, however, Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey called on Bush to "face the reality" in Iraq and "tell us the truth" about the cost of the conflict as America is struggling with a faltering economy and mounting casualty tolls. U.S. officials have pointed to a number of positive signs, including a 60 percent drop in violence since Bush ordered 30,000 U.S. reinforcements to Iraq early last year. Iraqis have also made some limited progress in power-sharing deals among rival Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish communities. However, U.S. military commanders have been careful to point out that security gains are fragile and that major violence could erupt abruptly. Much of the progress has been due to a move by thousands of Sunnis to abandon the insurgency and join pro-U.S. defense groups — known as "awakening councils." Another was a cease-fire called last August by firebrand Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, leader of the feared Mahdi Army militia. On Saturday, a U.S. attack helicopter fired on two checkpoints manned by U.S.-allied Sunni fighters near Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, killing six and injuring two, Iraqi police said. The U.S. military said an AH-64 Apache helicopter fired on the positions after five people were "spotted conducting suspicious terrorist activity" in an area notorious for roadside bombs. "Initial reports suggested the attack may have been a Sons of Iraq checkpoint," the military said, using a term for the armed U.S.-backed groups. "The incident is currently under a joint Iraqi-Coalition Force investigation." A local official of the U.S.-backed group said the attack occurred about two hours after American soldiers stopped at the two checkpoints to meet the Sunni fighters. "They asked us general questions like: 'Have you gotten your IDs?' and 'Do you need anything?' and then they left," Sabbar al-Bazi told The Associated Press. "Two hours later, after I had gone home, I heard two explosions, probably caused by two missiles, and machine-gun fire from a helicopter." Lt. Col. Dhiya Mahmoud Ahmed, an Iraqi military officer in charge of security in the area, said he told the Americans after the attack that he had been aware of the friendly checkpoints for two days. AP Television News footage of the aftermath showed awakening council members loading bodies into a pickup. Their faces were masked and they wore bright yellow vests — apparently to identify themselves for U.S. forces as members of friendly groups. Bloodstained rocks and bits of flesh could be seen around the checkpoint. U.S.-funded awakening councils, which first sprung up in Anbar province west of Baghdad and spread to Baghdad and surrounding areas, are composed of ex-Sunni insurgents who turned against al-Qaida in Iraq and joined forces with the Americans. But the Shiite-dominated leadership in Baghdad has been ambivalent toward the mostly Sunni councils, fearing they could turn against the government as America draws down its forces. In Baghdad, members of Sunni awakening councils in the west of the capital have complained that they have not been paid for months and have threatened to withdraw their support for the government unless they receive their money within days. At the same time, tensions have been rising within the majority Shiite community as rival factions maneuver for position ahead of provincial elections expected this fall. A bomb exploded Saturday on a minibus in a predominantly Shiite area of eastern Baghdad, killing at least one passenger and injuring eight, including a woman, police said. Late Saturday, bombs exploded at four offices of the Iraqi Red Crescent Society in the Mansour district of Baghdad, causing damage but no casualties. The Red Crescent Society is the Muslim world's equivalent of the Red Cross. A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol also killed one passer-by and injured seven, including five officers, in the northern city of Kirkuk, police said. An awakening council member in western Baghdad's Mansour neighborhood was killed and four others were injured in a mortar blast, police and hospital officials said. It's a war!! They don't throw flowers at each other. exactly, it's a damn war where people die, for the benefit of a few. and those few are not exactly the North American population and their "freedom" and "democracy" |
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so why are u arguing with soldiers attempting to put your mind at ease by telling you that we are winning, things are getting better, and troops will be coming home sooner than later. FYI they are already withdrawing those troops used for the surge (which was successful)
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I'm sorry
winning what? what was the primary objective? and just for the record, i admire soldiers they go there and they risk their lives for something they believe (or someone else like the drill sargent made them believe). after all soldiers are just employees following orders, it's not their fault. I'm against those from whom the orders come. |
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Edited by
Drivinmenutz
on
Sat 03/22/08 10:51 PM
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fair enough
Our primary objective: establish democracy We are accomplishing the mission. This is what i mean by winning. The Iraqi government is become more independant as we speak. I think Doc mentioned that Iraq is 85% controled by their own military now. They are starting to send troops home. This is a process that has to be done little by little or everything will fall into shambles. We get the country back on it's feet, the U.S. lost an enemy, and there won't be some dictator who has connections to terrorist gaining control of another country. (Note: i am not implying that Saddam had ties to terrorists. I am merely addressing a likely threat resulting from us losing our mission.) Drill Sargent never talked to us about politics. this isn't their job. We appreciate that you respect those that recieve orders. But we aren't mindless zombies. There is a lot of information the media puts out that is geared toward making us, our efforts, and our accomplishments look bad. We are trying to tell you that this is misinformation that people are getting. |
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who did call the USA to intervene?
was it a unilateral action or the iraqi people requested help from this glorious country? or was intelligence services who said that iraq was dangerous? didn't these same sources said a while after the war started that they may have had wrong information? mmmmmmmmm i still quite don't understand what was the primary objective of the mission. sincere and honestly. |
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OK, i wont get into why we went over. I have heard so many conflicting stories and since i didn't work in the pentagon, i choose not to believe anyone.
But hear this, tactically and strategically it could be detrimental to us if we lose this mission. (Establish democracy in Iraq) |
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OK, i wont get into why we went over. I have heard so many conflicting stories and since i didn't work in the pentagon, i choose not to believe anyone. But hear this, tactically and strategically it could be detrimental to us if we lose this mission. (Establish democracy in Iraq) ok, the max i can do here, is just to respet ur point of view. here is mine as general sort of speaking. war itself is the biggest stupidity man could have ever created. people die. resources are being wasted. and general good for human kind i don't see any. North American tax payers are funding that nonsense, and a very few are getting wealthier. |
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They, there have been calls for help from expatriated iraqi's since after the 91 kurd massacres quite frankly. but im sure those peope dont count right- your asking did the government of iraq call and say help us get rid of this guy? shheeeessh, you people.....
throw one thing out there, they say ok but, what about, you explain that and its like, yeah ok but what about, what about, what about...just a big circle jerk. you dont want the truth, it doesnt fit in with your perception of reality alice. Im a grown ass man Miguel, 35 years old, some thats not old to others its anciet, to some of these crusties on here im just a bullpup. point is miguel- i havent had a drill sergeant in a very long damn time, and to use that as a retort for being called out on your rather transparent humanitrianism is definately playing the lib card of denial. you say that you are against war because people die and uselessly get hurt. yeah okay I can except that.. but if you think for one second in your lonelywalkinghead that this war hasn't been more about humanitarianism than money then I would just say...."oh thats right you avent been there" WE are treating them better than they have ever been treated before, better food, better medical, better schools, better beter better. on all level, rights being the primary one. you guys have this mentality that all people all over the world get treated with respect and have rights to do and say whatever they want, then there is the reality of it which is they dont. women can not speak out freely in a great part of the world, and you libs claim to be for the women- ha!your a joke. claim to be for the kids, but kids are slaves in how much of the world? where are your cries for that? again, ha! your a joke. dont come at me with this false pretend caring and compassion that you profess. you dont like the war, say i dont like the war it cost to much of my money, id respect that more than "oh people are suffering" because your on the wrongside of compassion to not be for the war. but hey like i said earlier, its all about looking good and sounding good to you guys and not actually being good. so whatever you have to tellyourself to sleep better at night. doc- the humanitarian- who would of thunk  
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there will always be war and people wanting it. I, for one, am glad I'm in a country that defends others and ourselves
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Edited by
TheLonelyWalker
on
Sun 03/23/08 12:00 PM
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They, there have been calls for help from expatriated iraqi's since after the 91 kurd massacres quite frankly. but im sure those peope dont count right- your asking did the government of iraq call and say help us get rid of this guy? shheeeessh, you people..... throw one thing out there, they say ok but, what about, you explain that and its like, yeah ok but what about, what about, what about...just a big circle jerk. you dont want the truth, it doesnt fit in with your perception of reality alice. Im a grown ass man Miguel, 35 years old, some thats not old to others its anciet, to some of these crusties on here im just a bullpup. point is miguel- i havent had a drill sergeant in a very long damn time, and to use that as a retort for being called out on your rather transparent humanitrianism is definately playing the lib card of denial. you say that you are against war because people die and uselessly get hurt. yeah okay I can except that.. but if you think for one second in your lonelywalkinghead that this war hasn't been more about humanitarianism than money then I would just say...."oh thats right you avent been there" WE are treating them better than they have ever been treated before, better food, better medical, better schools, better beter better. on all level, rights being the primary one. you guys have this mentality that all people all over the world get treated with respect and have rights to do and say whatever they want, then there is the reality of it which is they dont. women can not speak out freely in a great part of the world, and you libs claim to be for the women- ha!your a joke. claim to be for the kids, but kids are slaves in how much of the world? where are your cries for that? again, ha! your a joke. dont come at me with this false pretend caring and compassion that you profess. you dont like the war, say i dont like the war it cost to much of my money, id respect that more than "oh people are suffering" because your on the wrongside of compassion to not be for the war. but hey like i said earlier, its all about looking good and sounding good to you guys and not actually being good. so whatever you have to tellyourself to sleep better at night. doc- the humanitarian- who would of thunk
then again i have to insist that ur drill sargent did hell of a job. u can say a lot of things very close to reality because u r there, and as an employee of the US government u r doing your job, u r not requested to think but to act upon superior orders. that is why u get paid for. and to be honest with you i don't give a damn how good the US army is treating those people, that is just like a piece of rotten bread thatthe US government is giving them to keep its mind at ease for the death and destruction caused in there. Bottom of line, i don't care whatever your drill sargent taught you to say when u come accross an idiot like me. As long as there is a life wasted for war i will be as idiotic as u want. i will say the same things. U r the one who goes to sleep with the people killed by your hand, not me. HAve a good easter. TLW |
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Can you put a price of freedom?
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Sun 03/23/08 12:38 PM
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who did call the USA to intervene? The Iraqis. Saddam was hanged for the Iraqis he killed after the Gulf War in 1991. The US promised to back them up and then you pulled out without fullfilling the mission. Which is part of the reason why they were so angry and distrustful of the US this time around, because they were afraid that we would pull out and leave them and their families to die at the hands of Saddam. Now they see that we are serious and they are happier and appreciate what we are doing for them. What happened in 1991 was terrible and will be a stain on this country for many years, but what we are doing NOW is beautiful. We are buying freedom and peace for those people with our own blood...and far less blood that we paid for European freedom. |
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They, there have been calls for help from expatriated iraqi's since after the 91 kurd massacres quite frankly. but im sure those peope dont count right- your asking did the government of iraq call and say help us get rid of this guy? shheeeessh, you people..... throw one thing out there, they say ok but, what about, you explain that and its like, yeah ok but what about, what about, what about...just a big circle jerk. you dont want the truth, it doesnt fit in with your perception of reality alice. Im a grown ass man Miguel, 35 years old, some thats not old to others its anciet, to some of these crusties on here im just a bullpup. point is miguel- i havent had a drill sergeant in a very long damn time, and to use that as a retort for being called out on your rather transparent humanitrianism is definately playing the lib card of denial. you say that you are against war because people die and uselessly get hurt. yeah okay I can except that.. but if you think for one second in your lonelywalkinghead that this war hasn't been more about humanitarianism than money then I would just say...."oh thats right you avent been there" WE are treating them better than they have ever been treated before, better food, better medical, better schools, better beter better. on all level, rights being the primary one. you guys have this mentality that all people all over the world get treated with respect and have rights to do and say whatever they want, then there is the reality of it which is they dont. women can not speak out freely in a great part of the world, and you libs claim to be for the women- ha!your a joke. claim to be for the kids, but kids are slaves in how much of the world? where are your cries for that? again, ha! your a joke. dont come at me with this false pretend caring and compassion that you profess. you dont like the war, say i dont like the war it cost to much of my money, id respect that more than "oh people are suffering" because your on the wrongside of compassion to not be for the war. but hey like i said earlier, its all about looking good and sounding good to you guys and not actually being good. so whatever you have to tellyourself to sleep better at night. doc- the humanitarian- who would of thunk
My son is a hero in my eyes. Iraq was the last thing he saw and my hero is home now. I will always remember how proud he was to be helping them. Thank you for helping there and I hope and pray all of you come home safe when the job is done. |
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Okay and the logic of it all is this:
True humanitarians help others who ask for it. We do not ASSUME we know what is better for others especially when it comes to over throwing governments who have not attacked us. Illogical aspects of it: Bin Laden stricks us on our home ground, we know he is not in Iraq but instead of going after him like we should as he is the one who did it. We point our attention to another country, another man, another people, another group, etc.... One of the justification is we claim to be democricizing them without their permission and we feel JUSTIFIED???? in this and we feel we are right. Somehow forced democricizing doesn't ring as humanitarian work though does it???? Etc.... and on and on and on. I know that the military has to feel what they are doing is right and just, otherwise putting their lifes on the line would not have so much appeal. And if you bomb the sh*t out a country and kill their people whenever you claim it is necessary they are going to react to you kindly out of fear so to see them be glad to see you is a ruse and they hope you believe it cause they think they may die if not. There are some dam angry Iraqis out there but they will not show it in the face of the occupying enemy. I see the shows on PBS showing them in their true state of mind not influenced by the military. They want us the hell out of there and we should oblige them, it is their country, not ours. |
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there will always be war and people wanting it. I, for one, am glad I'm in a country that defends others and ourselves i have little problem with us fighting when the people of the country ask us to and the american people support it |
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Edited by
TheLonelyWalker
on
Sun 03/23/08 04:18 PM
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fighting for "freedom" and "democracy" it's the worst lie this government has endoctrinated its people through years.
Back in the 60's and 70's with the same BS as an excuse in Latin America (I can't talk about this because though I did not passed through it my parents did it) the US government supported dictators such as Pinochet in Chile, Trujillo in Dominican Republic, Peron in Argentina, Noriega in Panama (he went out of NOrth American control), etc. These men were the most blood thirsty individuals that our countries experienced in those decades and who supported them "Big Daddy" with which excuse "democracy." Same BS as in Iraq. Now "Big Daddy" is fighting a war against drugs in Colombia, and they had to put a military base in my country (Ecuador) with the excuse of logistics. And the damn government of my country allowed it. Because if not "Big Daddy" was going to sanction us with penalties in the trade of goods from my country to US. Conclusion, this glorious country don't ask permission, this glorious country just goes there and do whatever it wants depending upon its political, strategical, and economical interests. If this government is so humanitarian why don't they send help to Somalia, Kennya, or many other countries which really need this help. Simply because there is no political, strategical, or economical interest in those countries so as far as the politicians in Washington those people can go straight to hell. Then again I want to restate that I admire the North American soldiers because they really believe they are doing something good, and in a small picture they are doing something good. HOwever, in the military don't teach them to see the big picture. The picture that just outsiders with a more clear view can see. TLW |
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God bless our soldiers.
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Edited by
IndianaJoans
on
Sun 03/23/08 05:29 PM
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fighting for "freedom" and "democracy" it's the worst lie this government has endoctrinated its people through years. Back in the 60's and 70's with the same BS as an excuse in Latin America (I can't talk about this because though I did not passed through it my parents did it) the US government supported dictators such as Pinochet in Chile, Trujillo in Dominican Republic, Peron in Argentina, Noriega in Panama (he went out of NOrth American control), etc. These men were the most blood thirsty individuals that our countries experienced in those decades and who supported them "Big Daddy" with which excuse "democracy." Same BS as in Iraq. Now "Big Daddy" is fighting a war against drugs in Colombia, and they had to put a military base in my country (Ecuador) with the excuse of logistics. And the damn government of my country allowed it. Because if not "Big Daddy" was going to sanction us with penalties in the trade of goods from my country to US. Conclusion, this glorious country don't ask permission, this glorious country just goes there and do whatever it wants depending upon its political, strategical, and economical interests. If this government is so humanitarian why don't they send help to Somalia, Kennya, or many other countries which really need this help. Simply because there is no political, strategical, or economical interest in those countries so as far as the politicians in Washington those people can go straight to hell. Then again I want to restate that I admire the North American soldiers because they really believe they are doing something good, and in a small picture they are doing something good. HOwever, in the military don't teach them to see the big picture. The picture that just outsiders with a more clear view can see. TLW Well at least your people had the ability to say no. I would love to see a few hundred thousand soldiers move out of Guantanamo and free my family.At least you can visit your family? |
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