when you can walk the walk you can talk the talk.

Women will continue to make their own choices about their bodies no matter what anyone else says.

Abortion or not.

it is not a question of can or can not. It is a question of should or should not. You should not choose to kill the baby in your tummy wether you are male or female.

I say you should not, you say you should not, I don't think there are many people who say you should, but that is a question of morals and ethics, and who are you or I to tell someone else what they should or should not do?

Personally, I don't think people should get welfare, it is a principal of morals and ethics for me, I think if you are able to work you should not collect government money to simply live, but what I think someone should or should not do, is none of my business. I think if you collect welfare, you owe the government and you should either be forced to be in the military or clean the highways or something. But that is just what I think, due to my morals and ethics. I am not going to force them on someone else.

well, i agree with you.

but that situation isn't really the same as this whole arguement. that is something that dirrectly effects you and many americans

Who am I to say a lady should not have an abortion? A potential father. I dont believe in abortion at nay time for any reason (not even to save the life of the would-be mother), but I think everyone here already knows this
My point is though, that if abortion is going to be an option, then it needs to be one where BOTH parents (generally speaking) have to sign the paperwork and agree to it, so that the father has his right to be a father if he wants to be one.
I am sorry but you can not just say oh I know we both knew the posible results, I know he really wants to be a father, but I really do not want to live with the consequences of having sex. That is taking the would be fathers rights as a potential parent away.

And just a quick defense on my behalf here Just because I do not believe in abortion for rape or self survival, does not mean I do not understand and sympathise with the feelings and emotions involved. But in the end it boils down to Ethics in my book. Two wrongs will never make a right, no matter what.

i have answers for this forum but

i think i will refrain

cause it is long and a hard one

that most would not like to read

i think you should at some point not be in charge of your body

i think you should have to face the decision yourself

until then, i don't think you should have a say in MY life

thanx

I also do not agree withthe current welfare system. I DO believe the assistance should be available, and not for just a specific amount of time then it is done forever. We DO pay taxes towards the possibility of having the need for assistance ourselves.
However, I agree with you one hundred percent that it should not be free assistance. You need to be doing somethign to earn that money (besides paying taxes towards it). I do like the idea behind Michigans requirements to receive cash assistance, which is that if working no hours at all you will attend a government paid for class for fourty hours a week, which helps you with resume and interview skills (inorder to help you have a better chance landing a job), and assists you with job searching in and of itself. It does a helluva lot more than just this too. It provides so much grant money (never cash in hand) towards proper clothing for interviews and offered work. It also offers training in specific (high demand) jobs, such as nursing and doctors assistance. If you take the training and get offered a position the program will also assist you with personal equipment you may need (assist means they will only help so much if you absolutely have no choice in needing it).
If you are working but still qualify for cash assistance due to lack of hours, or low wage, then you have to make up any hours shy of fourty that you are not working. For example you work twenty-five hours, so you attend the afore mentioned class for 15 hours for a total of 40 hours per week.
Its not perfect but it does force people to not just sit back and collect assistance.

I agree you ahould have a say in your life above anybody else. but no one here has yet to dispute the fact that you have the right to say no to having sex in the first place if you do not want to have a child.
This is where you have the opportunity to have your say in your own life. You have to be mature enough to say "I dont want a child so I have no business having sex", and then abstain from doing so. This goes for both sides not just the ladies.

If you dont want to get wet, then dont jump in the water.

And the result, the death of the embyro/fetus, is different then how? But I don't hear you calling God a murderer. Why is that?

As for playing God, Man does it all the time-- take what happened last century in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I'm sure you'll tell me it was necessary militarily, but where is your outrage over the dead babies those two events caused?

Did you know that a father's smoking, especially one who is older, has been correlated with an 81% risk increase of the mother miscarrying? Do you think he is a murderer for smoking?

I suspect most of your position comes from religious conviction and dogma. People of similar persuasion used to be just as deadset against contraception (and many still are, though it's easier to use abortion as a trump card to smuggle in this position later), and we know how that turned out.

Sorry, I just don't subscribe to the theory that a few cells constitute a new soul shortly after conception. I think the morning-after pill needs to be made available to those who want it over the objections of the superstitious. And that conservatives like John Ashcroft need to STOP trying to interfere with the treatment of terminally ill patients, keeping them alive at all costs over their own wishes. It's just another way that conservatism tries to commandeer your life for its own ends.

-Kerry O.

I am not a christian and I just think abortion is wrong. The debate is like this. Even if the fetus is not a life form yet it will be in the future thus ending its opportunity to live.

Again, Ethics cannot be instilled from one person to another, your ethics and someone elses ethics are going to be different, and by telling me that my ethics are wrong, you are also telling me that you are superior to me because your ethics are better than mine. This is part of the whole problem with this issue, a bunch of people who are not involved with my life want to tell me what is right and wrong for me? (by the way, I have never had an abortion, which neither here nor there)

Stop pushing your views on eveyone else, we are in agreement, I don't think children should be aborted, however, it is not my decision to make, so why would I impose my views on anyone else?

There is a movie out it is a few years old, the name of it eludes me right now, it is about an abortion doctor in England I think it was, before it was legal, and showed how many women were doing it even though it was illegal, and showed how many women did not get proper care before, during and after.

Look at it this way, If I said that it was ethically wrong to have proceedures that enable you to have children, for those women who have healt problems. So if you have a health problem that you cannot have children, I think it is ethically wrong to superceed God's will for you to not have children. God obviously did not want you to have them, or he would have made it so. so if you go into the hospital to have those sorts of procedures, I am going to picket the hospital, I am going to throw eggs at you, and I may even find your home # and harras you at home. Ethically it is wrong to me for you to do this, so I will stop you.

What a totolitarian state that would be, when does the good of one outweigh the good of many?

When you have a vagina you can do whatever you want with it.

here here!!

do i really need to repeat my post here?

here it is..

not once did any of us tell you what to do with your life. We told you that you shuldnot commit murder.


not once have I pushed my views on anyone else. I am simply participating in a discussion. If you feel I am "pushing my views" upon you then you need to go elsewhere, because this is an open forum whre anyone may speak as long as they do not attack, or harrass etc.*




Your right, just because somethign is illegal does not mean it wont happen. but does that mean we need to make it legal for soeone to go out and rape another? Or murder a person that is not still physically attached to their mother? What about drugs? Should we make it legal for the use of all drugs because of hte drug wars?



I have not once mentioned anything abot religion or god ar any of that. As far as I am concerned enabling someone to give life is a heck of a lot mor moral, than allowing them to take it away, for [by]any reason.
And as far as getting physical in any way towards a woman/man or clinic/hospital I did not say, nor have I participated in any way, that this would be right or ethical.
And as far as "going into your home..." I am not going into your home. Yes you are at home. however I am at my home. We are both using the internet, which is a choice we both make for ourselves, and you chose to come into this thread and read it and comment. I am assuming no one is standing there with a gun to your head (or anything similar) forcing you to turn on the internet, sign onto JustSayHi.com and to participate in this thread.
So if you do not like being told my views (or anyone elses) thenturn off your computer and quit participating.

(Forgive me folks but I have to ask this, even though I do not believe it myself}

Does the above statment mean on the reverse that because I have a ****, I can do whatever I want with it with no consequences as well?

Yes, that's it exactly. You can make babies with your male naughty bits and a woman can kill babies (but only her own!), because she has female naughty bits. In the end, nobody gets hurt. Other than the child, who has fingernails, fingerprints, a brain, a beating heart, but lacks two things: a name and a mother's love.

I lost it when I moved, but I had a ultrasound of my daughter sucking her thumb in the womb. She was...maybe four months along, just sitting there sucking on her thumb. The ultrasound tech said that's very common. Interesting isn't it, that a four month old fetus would suck it's thumb? They do that when they are stressed, because it calms them down And some people call a fetus a parasite...

Until when Elgee? and I am not saying I have a say in your life. I am saying that once you decide to have sex, that you do not have the right to have a say in wether or not the resulting child of such sex shuld be killed.
Once you choose to have sex and thus eventually become pregnant, the choice is no longer about you. It is about that child you helped to conceive.


Once you have jumped out of an airplane at five thousand feet with no parachute, do you think you are going to be given the chance to change the results of your action because you realized you do not wanna go splat?

It's too bad that we humans can be so selfish that they can not control their urges, that they resort to killing their offspring. Men and women choose to have unprotected sex inspite of the risk of creating another human being that relays on the "adults" that created them.