All Iraqi groups blame U.S. invasion for discord
See departure of 'occupying forces' as key to reconciliation, study shows
The Washington Post
By Karen DeYoung

updated 3:12 a.m. ET, Wed., Dec. 19, 2007
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqis of all sectarian and ethnic groups believe that the U.S. military invasion is the primary root of the violent differences among them, and see the departure of "occupying forces" as the key to national reconciliation, according to focus groups conducted for the U.S. military last month.

That is good news, according to a military analysis of the results. At the very least, analysts optimistically concluded, the findings indicate that Iraqis hold some "shared beliefs" that may eventually allow them to surmount the divisions that have led to a civil war.

Conducting the focus groups, in 19 separate sessions organized by outside contractors in five cities, is among the ways in which Multi-National Force-Iraq assesses conditions in the country beyond counting insurgent attacks, casualties and weapons caches. The command, led by Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, devotes more time and resources than any other government or independent entity to measuring various matters, including electricity, satisfaction with trash collection and what Iraqis

The results are analyzed and presented to Petraeus as part of the daily Battle Update Assessment or BUA (pronounced boo-ah). Some of the news has been unarguably good, including the sharply reduced number of roadside bombings and attacks on civilians. But bad news is often presented with a bright side, such as the focus-group results and a November poll, which found that 25 percent of Baghdad residents were satisfied with their local government and that 15 percent said they had enough fuel for heating and cooking.

The good news? Those numbers were higher than the figures of the previous month (18 percent and 9 percent, respectively).

And Iraqi complaints about matters other than security are seen as progress. Early this year, Maj. Fred Garcia, an MNF-I analyst, said that "a very large percentage of people would answer questions about security by saying 'I don't know.' Now, we get more griping because people feel freer."

Iraqi political reconciliation, quality-of-life issues and the economy are largely the responsibility of the State Department. But the military, to the occasional consternation of U.S. diplomats who feel vastly outnumbered, has its own "mirror agencies" in many areas. Officers in charge of civil-military operations, said senior Petraeus adviser Army Col. William E. Rapp, "can tell you how many markets are open in Baghdad, how many shops, how many banks are open. . . . We have a lot more people" on the ground.

On Iraqi politics, "we have four to six slides almost every morning on 'Where does the Iraqi government stand on de-Baathification legislation?' All these things are embassy things," Rapp said. But Petraeus is interested in "his 'feel' for a situation, and he gets that from a bunch of different data points," he added.

Polling in Iraq remains difficult
Even though members of the military "understand the limitations" of polling data, Rapp said, "subjective measures" are an important part of the mix. In July, the military signed a contract with Gallup for four public opinion polls a month in Iraq: three nationwide and one in Baghdad. Lincoln Group, which has conducted surveys for the military since shortly after the invasion, received a year-long contract in January to conduct focus groups.

Outside of the military, some of the most widespread polling in Iraq has been done by D3 Systems, a Virginia-based company that maintains offices in each of Iraq's 18 provinces. Its most recent publicly released surveys, conducted in September for several news media organizations, showed the same widespread Iraqi belief voiced by the military's focus groups: that a U.S. departure will make things better. A State Department poll in September 2006 reported a similar finding.

Matthew Warshaw, a senior research manager at D3, said that despite security improvements, polling in Iraq remains difficult. "While violence has gone down, one of the ways it has been achieved is by effectively separating people. That means mobility is limited, with roadblocks by the U.S. and Iraqi military or local militias," Warshaw said in an interview.

Most of the recent survey results he has seen about political reconciliation, Warshaw said, are "more about [Iraqis] reconciling with the United States within their own particular territory, like in Anbar. . . . But it doesn't say anything about how Sunni groups feel about Shiite groups in Baghdad."

Warshaw added: "In Iraq, I just don't hear statements that come from any of the Sunni, Shiite or Kurdish groups that say 'We recognize that we need to share power with the others, that we can't truly dominate.' "

'Shared beliefs'
According to a summary report of the focus-group findings obtained by The Washington Post, Iraqis have a number of "shared beliefs" about the current situation that cut across sectarian lines. Participants, in separate groups of men and women, were interviewed in Ramadi, Najaf, Irbil, Abu Ghraib and in Sunni and Shiite neighborhoods in Baghdad. The report does not mention how the participants were selected.

Dated December 2007, the report notes that "the Iraqi government has still made no significant progress toward its fundamental goal of national reconciliation." Asked to describe "the current situation in Iraq to a foreign visitor," some groups focused on positive aspects of the recent security improvements. But "most would describe the negative elements of life in Iraq beginning with the 'U.S. occupation' in March 2003," the report says.

Some participants also blamed Iranian meddling for Iraq's problems. While the United States was said to want to control Iraq's oil, Iran was seen as seeking to extend its political and religious agendas.

Few mentioned Saddam Hussein as a cause of their problems, which the report described as an important finding implying that "the current strife in Iraq seems to have totally eclipsed any agonies or grievances many Iraqis would have incurred from the past regime, which lasted for nearly four decades -- as opposed to the current conflict, which has lasted for five years."

Overall, the report said that "these findings may be expected to conclude that national reconciliation is neither anticipated nor possible. In reality, this survey provides very strong evidence that the opposite is true." A sense of "optimistic possibility permeated all focus groups . . . and far more commonalities than differences are found among these seemingly diverse groups of Iraqis."

I have been called all sorts of stupid for telling people this same thing on this very site. I watch the programs that interview the Iraqis on the streets and they are not happy with us at all. Who can blame them. We preemptively struck their country, tore it to bits, supposedly to save them from Saddam who did not do 9/11, making him none of our business. It is just a mess. We will now occupy a sovereign country illegally for another 20-30 years all for babyshrubs desire for oil control and revenge on Saddam. Babyshrubs idealistic reign here in the US is taking us right down the toilet.

You mean the good little welfare recipients of Iraq don't want us there any more? Have they found another "sugar daddy" to hold their little hands and guide them through every waking moment of their lives?

Actually, like the good little welfare recipients they are, the first second we begin pulling troops out, they'll scream bloody murder for us to stay.

Of course, this is the reason you don't try to settle an argument between two or more friends. Before you know it, they'll patch everything up and turn on you!

Obviously you have NEVER served in the Military.

Are you referring to me, son?

And, if I may be so bold, what exactly are YOUR credintials, junior?

Need to remind all to follow the site rules. Your more than welcome to have debates over any subject as long as you stay witin the guidlines of the site rules.


Do not attack/slam/insult others. You can discuss the message or topic, but not the messenger - NO EXCEPTIONS. If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, YOU will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself, defending a friend, etc. are NOT excuses. Violations of this rule are taken very seriously and may result in being banned without warning!

No explicit, sexual, offensive, insulting or vulgar language. The JustSayHi forums are rated PG-13. The only exception is the Sex and Dating forum which is rated R, NOT X.

So debate but please watch launguage and to whom it is direted towards.


Thanks
Site Mod
Kristi

Sorry about that, Kristi .

The more the average Iraqi wants us out the better. However, you have to take it with a grain of salt and hope the Iraqis that want us out aren't affliated with some militia, al Qaeda, or Iran.

The South Koreans are doing the same thing as is Japan. They haved wanted us out for a long time now, and yet the governments often say the same and yet under the table are whispering for us to stay.

We will greatly pull back our presence in due time, which will be very soon.

However, when people talk like uneducated sensationalists you really got to wonder what the desires, behind such pullouts with shouting and running away with our hands in the air, truly are.

The fact that Iraqi's can speak out in such a way in a civilized manner WITHOUT a rise in violence, actually a great decrease, speak volumes and adds further to the notion we are indeed winning, if not won.

Again, take everything with a grain of salt right now.

I wish we'd take their oil fields and use them for ourselves.

I'm selfish like that.

All i've been hearing about is Iraq.Forget about Iraq,they got the one they was after over there.Pull our troops out and let them come home to their family's.

According to people we supposedly are. Haven't you seen the cheaper gas at the pumps?

well i don't know where your from ,but i haven't seen no price change at the pump.

I was being sarcastic :)

oh ok. heres a good question for someone.whatever happened with AFGHANISTAN.you don't hear much about that anymore.thats where we should be.i think

I put this in another thread somewhere, but Afghanistan is a lost cause and always will be. Too many people fled the country, the educated ones, and will never come back at least not in great numbers because they have been gone for so long. The education system in Afghanistan is horrible, went that way under the Taliban, and will take awhile to re-establish. The country lack technology or a product or industry for mass work and to bring in profits. The only thing they do have that they really export is opium. They will continue the drug trade and terrorists will always be there be they al Qaeda, other Islamic terrorists, Asian terrorists and European terrorists.

The country is in big trouble and I simply don't see how they can pull out, unlike Afghanistan, Iraq has great childhood and college education. Also is full of industries and has loads of oil. It is a highly modern country like other Gulf States and very rich, not just from oil, but pretty much so :)

I'm not saying we are stealing their oil, however the prices we're paying don't mean anything. Remember, the oil comapanies claimed they were paying higher prices per barrel and then lo & behold, the finnancial report showed them making record profits at the same time. Greedy greedy price gouging;^]

Hey Fitness Fan.
Your wrong,but right.
I like to see the US out of the US.
Half these gung-ho morons you can have,well
maybe all of them. All of wall street special
democrat laxative types w/there$ signs every
time they come up with some new law.
Have at it Fitness Fan, I had it with this silliness since being a American is so guilty these days, I can't even say anything bad about my prez because we as the people have to be muzzled shut and round up the political activists. Like saddam in the old days. See no difference. Have it all Bro!
What you don't know is that you'll need to be a fitness champ to run yo chicken ass to the border when some deralick Jihad
Iranian lights up a mushroom cloud over your precious IRAQ, Baby! Why even write up a charter of peace when even My US can't even Play by the co*&^&%^%$ution's am^%$ments of freedom.
What freedom, God damn! Have Fun. Salad Ali Combe! Isalam. PEACE.

unless you go there

and do the interviews yourself

you have no credibility to say what they want

you can go anywhere and interview any number of people

then only air or report on the ones that

give the answers you want

every service person i have discussed this with says

that the people of iraq are greatful we are there

and i will take their report over any reporter

any day of the week

why would they lie about it

well, I view it like this. If some foreign army came into my country, would I want them there? Sure I wouldn't. In this case the US military is the only chance of stabilization before a political reformation in Iraq, so whether Iraqis want the US there or not, they realize that the US presence is required so progress can be made.

But seriously, everything is way more complicated than having support or not having support. Multiple ethnic groups have varying reasons for supporting anyone in Iraq, so saying that "Iraqis" don't support the US is a bit misleading because plenty of groups either support, hate, and merely tolerate the US presence. It's a mixed bag of support. Blanket statements will never get anywhere in the middle east. It's way more complex than that.

I don't drink, but I'll drink to that