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| Topic: Sacrificing others | |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 03/16/19 01:09 PM
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations.
Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? |
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? There does seem to be an attack on men. Not just in sex, but we're damn near criminalized for fighting for our rights to be fathers, and we have to fight for those rights. |
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? There does seem to be an attack on men. Not just in sex, but we're damn near criminalized for fighting for our rights to be fathers, and we have to fight for those rights. I understand that too. I do not understand parents who use kids as weapons against each other, regardless of gender. I really believe kids DESERVE both parents to have a relationship with them, as long as there is no physical or emotional abuse happening. |
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? There does seem to be an attack on men. Not just in sex, but we're damn near criminalized for fighting for our rights to be fathers, and we have to fight for those rights. I understand that too. I do not understand parents who use kids as weapons against each other, regardless of gender. I really believe kids DESERVE both parents to have a relationship with them, as long as there is no physical or emotional abuse happening. When women do it, hey the man must be a monster and she's just trying to protect her children. When men do it, he's a monster and just trying to control the woman. Either way it's unacceptable, but there's bad and evil woman as well, it's not always the man that's the monster. Anyway, I was just using that as another example. |
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Edited by
I_love_bluegrass
on
Sat 03/16/19 02:21 PM
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? Be careful, lest we go too far the other way..where we're back to women having to cover up (think prior to the 1920's here)..lest they be declared immodest or exposing themselves, or "obviously asking for it".. Now, that does in no way mean a woman (OR man) should parade down the street in pubic in their underwear..use some commone sense, people of *both* genders.. But if you can't control yourself because of what someone is wearing, that's YOUR problem, not hers (or his...I have gay friends and gay men run ito this as well). Also, i see on a few social media sites guys trying to get in touch with women who had the nerve to look at them, look them in the eye...even accodentally..because, hey...she looked at me, must mean she's interested, right? (also applies to gay guys...they're bad about this as well) Horse ****. I was date raped when in 1979. Didn't tell anyone because I willingly got in his car, and went for a ride with him...and they'd claim it was my fault. Never mind I didn't want to have sex, never mind that wasn't on my agenda...he asked if i wanted to go for a ride, it was a nice night he said...so, I took him at face value.. That being said...I did not drink when i was going to clubs (too afraid of wrecking the car/ getting a ticket)...so, any one-nighters I had I went into willingly. I just cannot wrap my brain around a woman accusing a guy who she gave consent to of forcing her.. Oh, wait..there's ONE instance... Say she initially said yes...then they guy got rough, and wanted to push her to do things (kinky things) she had no desire to do...and said "hey, no..you know what, I don;t want to do this..." and tried to get away.. She intitally said yes, but had no idea it was goimng to turn rough.. My point here is that, even when you are nekkid..and one person changes their mind...be an adult and stop right there...don't force someone tp contuinue a thing they don't want to.. If you do, that *is* rape... If you whine and say "but..my boner..." that's YOUR problem, not hers.. And if that has happened to you more than once,...maybe you should examine yourself and see why that might be... Instead of calling such women "cock teasers" who "deserve to get raped for leading a man on".. P.S. There was a guy back in 1980... We met at an event, hit it off one thing led to another, we went to his motel room (he was from out of town, here for the event).. Everrything was going well, until ~the reveal~ 
I was horrified... I told him "look...I don't think that's goning to work...even if we had vasaline and a shoehorn.." The thing was as big around as a soda can..and at least 9 inches long.. We did try, it was obvious it wasn;t going to happen... Luckily, he was a decent sort, and this wasn't the first time this had happened...and he didn't force the issue. He said he never understood why all guys wanted a huge penis...he could tell them a thing or two...LOL I realize some women like this..that there are "size queens"..but, that ain't me. I *love* coconut pie...but, there *is* such a thing as too *much* coconut pie... 
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? Be careful, lest we go too far the other way..where we're back to women having to cover up (think prior to the 1920's here)..lest they be declared immodest or exposing themselves, or "obviously asking for it".. Now, that does in no way mean a woman (OR man) should parade down the street in pubic in their underwear..use some commone sense, people of *both* genders.. But if you can't control yourself because of what someone is wearing, that's YOUR problem, not hers (or his...I have gay friends and gay men run ito this as well). Also, i see on a few social media sites guys trying to get in touch with women who had the nerve to look at them, look them in the eye...even accodentally..because, hey...she looked at me, must mean she's interested, right? (also applies to gay guys...they're bad about this as well) Horse ****. I was date raped when in 1979. Didn't tell anyone because I willingly got in his car, and went for a ride with him...and they'd claim it was my fault. Never mind I didn't want to have sex, never mind that wasn't on my agenda...he asked if i wanted to go for a ride, it was a nice night he said...so, I took him at face value.. That being said...I did not drink when i was going to clubs (too afraid of wrecking the car/ getting a ticket)...so, any one-nighters I had I went into willingly. I just cannot wrap my brain around a woman accusing a guy who she gave consent to of forcing her.. Oh, wait..there's ONE instance... Say she initially said yes...then they guy got rough, and wanted to push her to do things (kinky things) she had no desire to do...and said "hey, no..you know what, I don;t want to do this..." and tried to get away.. She intitally said yes, but had no idea it was goimng to turn rough.. My point here is that, even when you are nekkid..and one person changes their mind...be an adult and stop right there...don't force someone tp contuinue a thing they don't want to.. If you do, that *is* rape... If you whine and say "but..my boner..." that's YOUR problem, not hers.. And if that has happened to you more than once,...maybe you should examine yourself and see why that might be... Instead of calling such women "cock teasers" who "deserve to get raped for leading a man on".. Women should speak out against those who wrong them, everyone should have that power. Justice should be blind and impartial, righting all wrongs regardless of race or gender. This power should not be abused though, not by anyone for any reason. |
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? Be careful, lest we go too far the other way..where we're back to women having to cover up (think prior to the 1920's here)..lest they be declared immodest or exposing themselves, or "obviously asking for it".. Now, that does in no way mean a woman (OR man) should parade down the street in pubic in their underwear..use some commone sense, people of *both* genders.. But if you can't control yourself because of what someone is wearing, that's YOUR problem, not hers (or his...I have gay friends and gay men run ito this as well). Also, i see on a few social media sites guys trying to get in touch with women who had the nerve to look at them, look them in the eye...even accodentally..because, hey...she looked at me, must mean she's interested, right? (also applies to gay guys...they're bad about this as well) Horse ****. I was date raped when in 1979. Didn't tell anyone because I willingly got in his car, and went for a ride with him...and they'd claim it was my fault. Never mind I didn't want to have sex, never mind that wasn't on my agenda...he asked if i wanted to go for a ride, it was a nice night he said...so, I took him at face value.. That being said...I did not drink when i was going to clubs (too afraid of wrecking the car/ getting a ticket)...so, any one-nighters I had I went into willingly. I just cannot wrap my brain around a woman accusing a guy who she gave consent to of forcing her.. Oh, wait..there's ONE instance... Say she initially said yes...then they guy got rough, and wanted to push her to do things (kinky things) she had no desire to do...and said "hey, no..you know what, I don;t want to do this..." and tried to get away.. She intitally said yes, but had no idea it was goimng to turn rough.. My point here is that, even when you are nekkid..and one person changes their mind...be an adult and stop right there...don't force someone tp contuinue a thing they don't want to.. If you do, that *is* rape... If you whine and say "but..my boner..." that's YOUR problem, not hers.. And if that has happened to you more than once,...maybe you should examine yourself and see why that might be... Instead of calling such women "cock teasers" who "deserve to get raped for leading a man on".. Women should speak out against those who wrong them, everyone should have that power. Justice should be blind and impartial, righting all wrongs regardless of race or gender. This power should not be abused though, not by anyone for any reason. I agree with all being said. The trouble is though that sex is just not all so simple or happening in the 'logical' brain. Once that ball is rolling, especially where alcohol or drugs are present, the 'accused' may not be any more aware than the 'accuser' of what is actually happening, at some point in a sexual interaction, people are no longer living inside their heads, but on impulse. And I think we should be careful, if we want a 'free sex' culture, of labeling such 'grey matters' or those involved in them. I think we need to communicate better BEFORE things get started, so there isn't so much miscommunication or false impressions AFTER they get started. It comes down to the thing I have said before, not everyone likes the same thing. But the only way one person can know is after they ask or TRY, and we shouldn't throw people under the bus for those attempts as though they should know every individual, especially when neither individual has really attempted much to KNOW the other in the first place. |
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There was a time in America when we had physical lynch mobs. That is to say, a person or persons would claim someone had committed an offense, and mobs would set out for their own 'justice' to find and lynch that person, no trial, no proven guilt, just on the claims and accusations. Today, we seem to have a similar climate against men. I said it. There seems to be that only claims are required to 'lynch' men, not physically, but in terms of ruining their livelihoods and reputations via media. I am not talking about the ones whose own words and actions confessing illegal activity align with the claims to do them in, so much as I am talking about the ones who proclaim innocence the whole time, have no actions or words to align with the claims, but are still socially persecuted. As a survivor myself, I understand the importance of women being able to tell their story. I also understand the REALITY of how a culture where sex is a personal choice not open to anyone's judgment, and men and women are 'equal' in their sexual pursuits, one can no longer say (in my opinion) that a woman is not likely looking for casual encounters. I know in reality, that both men and women drink to rid themselves of inhibitions, WITH FULL INTENTION, of being able to 'get laid'. I also know, in modern times, both men and women seek and yearn for the chance to be in the public eye, which they get plenty of if they are accusing others of terrible things. Its like a type of munchaussen by proxy, seeking attention through the harm of others. But we seem to be in a culture that, if the women say it, the man did it. IF enough people have blogged or youtubed about it, it must be true. As sister to four brothers, and someone who tries to be a fair and compassionate human being, this bothers me. This brings me back to the idea of sacrificing others. If we care about getting it right, and if we care about ACTUAL guilt or innocence, how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones, especially when said conviction now must only happen in the public eye and not in a court room? Be careful, lest we go too far the other way..where we're back to women having to cover up (think prior to the 1920's here)..lest they be declared immodest or exposing themselves, or "obviously asking for it".. Now, that does in no way mean a woman (OR man) should parade down the street in pubic in their underwear..use some commone sense, people of *both* genders.. But if you can't control yourself because of what someone is wearing, that's YOUR problem, not hers (or his...I have gay friends and gay men run ito this as well). Also, i see on a few social media sites guys trying to get in touch with women who had the nerve to look at them, look them in the eye...even accodentally..because, hey...she looked at me, must mean she's interested, right? (also applies to gay guys...they're bad about this as well) Horse ****. I was date raped when in 1979. Didn't tell anyone because I willingly got in his car, and went for a ride with him...and they'd claim it was my fault. Never mind I didn't want to have sex, never mind that wasn't on my agenda...he asked if i wanted to go for a ride, it was a nice night he said...so, I took him at face value.. That being said...I did not drink when i was going to clubs (too afraid of wrecking the car/ getting a ticket)...so, any one-nighters I had I went into willingly. I just cannot wrap my brain around a woman accusing a guy who she gave consent to of forcing her.. Oh, wait..there's ONE instance... Say she initially said yes...then they guy got rough, and wanted to push her to do things (kinky things) she had no desire to do...and said "hey, no..you know what, I don;t want to do this..." and tried to get away.. She intitally said yes, but had no idea it was goimng to turn rough.. My point here is that, even when you are nekkid..and one person changes their mind...be an adult and stop right there...don't force someone tp contuinue a thing they don't want to.. If you do, that *is* rape... If you whine and say "but..my boner..." that's YOUR problem, not hers.. And if that has happened to you more than once,...maybe you should examine yourself and see why that might be... Instead of calling such women "cock teasers" who "deserve to get raped for leading a man on".. Women should speak out against those who wrong them, everyone should have that power. Justice should be blind and impartial, righting all wrongs regardless of race or gender. This power should not be abused though, not by anyone for any reason. I agree with all being said. The trouble is though that sex is just not all so simple or happening in the 'logical' brain. Once that ball is rolling, especially where alcohol or drugs are present, the 'accused' may not be any more aware than the 'accuser' of what is actually happening, at some point in a sexual interaction, people are no longer living inside their heads, but on impulse. And I think we should be careful, if we want a 'free sex' culture, of labeling such 'grey matters' or those involved in them. I think we need to communicate better BEFORE things get started, so there isn't so much miscommunication or false impressions AFTER they get started. It comes down to the thing I have said before, not everyone likes the same thing. But the only way one person can know is after they ask or TRY, and we shouldn't throw people under the bus for those attempts as though they should know every individual, especially when neither individual has really attempted much to KNOW the other in the first place. Exactly, it really comes down to communication BEFORE action. |
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I'm sorry to say, I don't think there is any possible reliable solution to this. At least, not until and unless we discover some new technology that allows us to completely replay entire events back, for after the fact judgments to be made. At most, what I support, is to increase education for everyone, as far as teaching everyone how to do a better job of reasoning through accusations and actively understanding the differences between accusations and actual occurrences. One of the biggest challenges, is that we have, and must maintain, freedom of the press. Despite the fact that there is no way to insure that a free press, will be a responsible and wise press. And as well, we do want leaders who speak out forthrightly on issues of the day, including this area, but again, we can't easily prevent the careless, or even worse, the intentionally misleading speakers from taking the forum. Finally, we have to accept and TRY to deal with the fact that there are very real incentives for all the participants to behave very badly. In particular, professional news people and politicians, derive personal advancement and income benefits, from reporting both nasty accusations, AND reporting suspicions of FALSE accusations, with a lot of irresponsible speculation, and incendiary language. All of which, again, makes education in REASONING, of the highest importance. |
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I'm sorry to say, I don't think there is any possible reliable solution to this. At least, not until and unless we discover some new technology that allows us to completely replay entire events back, for after the fact judgments to be made. At most, what I support, is to increase education for everyone, as far as teaching everyone how to do a better job of reasoning through accusations and actively understanding the differences between accusations and actual occurrences. One of the biggest challenges, is that we have, and must maintain, freedom of the press. Despite the fact that there is no way to insure that a free press, will be a responsible and wise press. And as well, we do want leaders who speak out forthrightly on issues of the day, including this area, but again, we can't easily prevent the careless, or even worse, the intentionally misleading speakers from taking the forum. Finally, we have to accept and TRY to deal with the fact that there are very real incentives for all the participants to behave very badly. In particular, professional news people and politicians, derive personal advancement and income benefits, from reporting both nasty accusations, AND reporting suspicions of FALSE accusations, with a lot of irresponsible speculation, and incendiary language. All of which, again, makes education in REASONING, of the highest importance. Right, but as you mentioned there is a lot of incentive for the opposite. Feminist and other extremist have a high interest and the funds to push an agenda that is against logical reasoning. |
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In the scope of the OP I'm not sure if "Sacrificing" is the right word.
Not sure what the right word might be? When I think "Sacrifice" I think the 'act of giving up something you cherish'. While I do cherish freedom, respect and dignity, I don't believe they are being threatened in the OP scenario. I am not being asked or feel I need to sacrifice those things in this scenario. how careful should we be to MAKE SURE we aren't sacrificing innocent people towards the means of trying to 'convict' the guilty ones
I live in a nation that has laws and procedures to convict the guilty. I do not, nor have ever lynched or persecuted anyone. Its not my job and there are people much better qualified than I. In my nation, we have an election process that determines these lawful actions. As a person, I have personal morals that determine my actions. If I feel the laws need to change, I am allowed to place my vote as I see fit. If I have the option to take action against someone I suspect of wrong doing, the laws I support in my nation prevent me. Otherwise, I am breaking the law and I am guilty of wrong doing myself. The issue in question is to not try to take the law into your own hands, let the process do what it is supposed to do. If the process fails to handle the issue, my action would be to try to fix the defective law or process. |
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Edited by
Tom4Uhere
on
Sat 03/16/19 11:34 PM
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On a different take (still not what I consider a Sacrifice) is the fact that I judge everyone, all the time.
I judge people as to whether I want them as part of my personal life. Someone that is suspect of murder or rape or robery, whatever, Is not someone I want in my private life. I feel no need to lynch them but I also have no desire to accomodate them in my personal life. This discernment keeps me and my loved ones safe. A moral preference. |
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Just to clarify, I use sacrifice in the biblical sense
to offer up something to a greater deity ,,, but in this case, it is offering up people's livelihoods and reputations for some greater cause ... |
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On a different take (still not what I consider a Sacrifice) is the fact that I judge everyone, all the time. I judge people as to whether I want them as part of my personal life. Someone that is suspect of murder or rape or robery, whatever, Is not someone I want in my private life. I feel no need to lynch them but I also have no desire to accomodate them in my personal life. This discernment keeps me and my loved ones safe. A moral preference. She is talking about judging on the social level, not on a personal or legal level. On a social level, it can alienate people. But then again, some people are legitimately dangerous. Judgement is not necessarily true or factual and it can complicate open minded discourse. However, it can also effectively represent the essence of commonly held opinions, and keep people unified and positive, and who doesn’t want that? Trust and allegiance is needed in any relation. If a guy does something to a woman that she desired not happen, or puts her in a dangerous situation and something happens, or something similar, if the guy gets a legal charge, he asked for it. Lynching, racism, etc. is much worse. People do not like to talk about it because it makes them feel guilty, but those things are real, bad, and need to be corrected as much as possible. |
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I'm sorry to say, I don't think there is any possible reliable solution to this. At least, not until and unless we discover some new technology that allows us to completely replay entire events back, for after the fact judgments to be made. At most, what I support, is to increase education for everyone, as far as teaching everyone how to do a better job of reasoning through accusations and actively understanding the differences between accusations and actual occurrences. One of the biggest challenges, is that we have, and must maintain, freedom of the press. Despite the fact that there is no way to insure that a free press, will be a responsible and wise press. And as well, we do want leaders who speak out forthrightly on issues of the day, including this area, but again, we can't easily prevent the careless, or even worse, the intentionally misleading speakers from taking the forum. Finally, we have to accept and TRY to deal with the fact that there are very real incentives for all the participants to behave very badly. In particular, professional news people and politicians, derive personal advancement and income benefits, from reporting both nasty accusations, AND reporting suspicions of FALSE accusations, with a lot of irresponsible speculation, and incendiary language. All of which, again, makes education in REASONING, of the highest importance. Right, but as you mentioned there is a lot of incentive for the opposite. Feminist and other extremist have a high interest and the funds to push an agenda that is against logical reasoning. Where do you get the idea that "feminists and other extremists" have significant funding, especially in comparison to their opponents? |
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On a different take (still not what I consider a Sacrifice) is the fact that I judge everyone, all the time. I judge people as to whether I want them as part of my personal life. Someone that is suspect of murder or rape or robery, whatever, Is not someone I want in my private life. I feel no need to lynch them but I also have no desire to accomodate them in my personal life. This discernment keeps me and my loved ones safe. A moral preference. She is talking about judging on the social level, not on a personal or legal level. On a social level, it can alienate people. But then again, some people are legitimately dangerous. Judgement is not necessarily true or factual and it can complicate open minded discourse. However, it can also effectively represent the essence of commonly held opinions, and keep people unified and positive, and who doesn’t want that? Trust and allegiance is needed in any relation. If a guy does something to a woman that she desired not happen, or puts her in a dangerous situation and something happens, or something similar, if the guy gets a legal charge, he asked for it. Lynching, racism, etc. is much worse. People do not like to talk about it because it makes them feel guilty, but those things are real, bad, and need to be corrected as much as possible. i basically agree with everything except the criminality of doing something someone 'desired not to happen', because it is very difficult to know other individuals desires without communication, and we have stopped expecting or requiring real communication when it comes to sexual interactions. I feel that we are possibly ostracizing the very culture that we are also promoting based on nothing but how people feel or what people want, which are not things that are clearly known by others without COMMUNICATION. |
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Just to clarify, I use sacrifice in the biblical sense to offer up something to a greater deity ,,, but in this case, it is offering up people's livelihoods and reputations for some greater cause ... Not sure where you get the authority or the right to offer up anyone's livelihood or reputation? Its not yours? |
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On a different take (still not what I consider a Sacrifice) is the fact that I judge everyone, all the time. I judge people as to whether I want them as part of my personal life. Someone that is suspect of murder or rape or robery, whatever, Is not someone I want in my private life. I feel no need to lynch them but I also have no desire to accomodate them in my personal life. This discernment keeps me and my loved ones safe. A moral preference. She is talking about judging on the social level, not on a personal or legal level. On a social level, it can alienate people. But then again, some people are legitimately dangerous. Judgement is not necessarily true or factual and it can complicate open minded discourse. However, it can also effectively represent the essence of commonly held opinions, and keep people unified and positive, and who doesn’t want that? Trust and allegiance is needed in any relation. If a guy does something to a woman that she desired not happen, or puts her in a dangerous situation and something happens, or something similar, if the guy gets a legal charge, he asked for it. Lynching, racism, etc. is much worse. People do not like to talk about it because it makes them feel guilty, but those things are real, bad, and need to be corrected as much as possible. i basically agree with everything except the criminality of doing something someone 'desired not to happen', because it is very difficult to know other individuals desires without communication, and we have stopped expecting or requiring real communication when it comes to sexual interactions. I feel that we are possibly ostracizing the very culture that we are also promoting based on nothing but how people feel or what people want, which are not things that are clearly known by others without COMMUNICATION. Okay, this is a contradiction. Sexual, intimate interactions is purely personal. I don't actively interact on a social level. It is something have to to think about and 'decide' to do. I don't spread or listen to social gossip. I live moment by moment in the reality before me. I conduct myself with respect towards others. I make my own judgements about the people I interact with. They are my judgements and I am completely happy letting others form their own. Its really not my business. One of the reasons I quit facebook is because the public tries to influence me. I don't care about anyone I don't have personal interaction with. If some guy is beating his gf, its wrong but unless I can do something about it, its not my concern. If I meet them and I see him beating her, I will try to stop it. If I see no such actions, I take him as how he presents himself to me. I live in the reality before me not in what others tell me. What I do is assess the rumormonger as untrustworthy, unless reality proves them right. My X used to like to stir the pot. The more drama she could create, the happier she felt. She is a compulsive liar. |
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I think impulse control is a thing that differs from person to person. there was an experiment done some years ago called the Stanford marshmallow experiment it makes interesting reading. the gist of it was that a group of pre school children were left alone for 5 minutes with a marshmallow and told if they didn't eat it then they would get 2. the participants were invited for neural imaging some years later and the results showed that the
prefrontal cortex became more developed in those that showed signs of impulse control as children. conversely those who couldn't resist the sweet became more active in the ventral striatum,. And we all know what that means don't we? :) yea exactly, some people are ruled by the old basal ganglia. :) |
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Edited by
I_love_bluegrass
on
Mon 03/18/19 07:53 AM
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:) yea exactly, some people are ruled by the old basal ganglia. :) Sadly, quite a large number of supposed mature (over 50) people still are as well.... 
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