a belief is a belief because the believer of that belief has not enough proof to claim it as fact, so anyone that claim to "believe" in the existence of God is in fact stating they have "doubts" about God's existance ..hence "to believe is to doubt"

so are those that then try to pass off a belief in God as truth without the sufficient proof to make such a claim lying to oneself and to others, while using the word faith as a way to justify the deception

"to believe is to doubt" ...there is just no way around this logic

hi, the definition of faith, cannot be defined by religion. The definition of faith has to defined incorrectly by religion, because religions deal with "truth" that can't be see, so religions have almost unverisally said that faith is believing what you can't see, I have little time here, but my own personal belief, maybe taken from the philiosophy that I read, is that faith, should be defined more closely with the idea of will, "I faith in my will, to dream, to decide, to confront, and in my faith, I have to realize it is only faith and not truth, even if it is my personal truth. Anyway, I get a little scare even in verbal discussions, because all of us don't know what the hell we're saying anyway.

jimmy

"to believe is to doubt"

... is rather a legitimate and most pertinent topic which could be 'open for (real) debate' on a 'religious chat' forum.

So people, PICK:

1) CIVILIZED, HEATED (maybe), but SINCERE and REAL DEBATE

or,

2) ANOTHER NOISY AND POINTLESS 'PISSING CONTEST' ?!!?


Pissing contest: 'personal', excludes some others, holds a strong hidden agenda which one MUST win!

or

Debating match: 'universal', includes all, whether agreement is ultimately reached or not.

Essentially, IMO, and in full MUTUAL respect of people's convictions, the only debate worth having here, gravitates around reaching ... or not reaching consensus, and conciliation of the true nature of faith and beliefs on 'what is so!' (our respective, yet possibly shared perspective of reality).

It will be interesting to watch how this one turns out?!?!?

At least, I have the chance of a halo, how ever broken it might be, there is no space for you to have one

a belief is a belief because the believer of that belief has not enough proof to claim it as fact, so anyone that claim to "believe" in the existence of God is in fact stating they have "doubts" about God's existance ..hence "to believe is to doubt"

so are those that then try to pass off a belief in God as truth without the sufficient proof to make such a claim lying to oneself and to others, while using the word faith as a way to justify the deception

"to believe is to doubt" ...there is just no way around this logic

A belief is an opinion, and no one thinks their opinion is wrong... Opinions are like A-holes, everyone has one.

Who cares what you belive or what I believe?

Well, there is no way reaching a consensus with somebody who has made up his mind about something. There is no way to debate when you get to hear the same response all over again, that's why I pointed out the thread in myspace.

or better...opinions are like a fart ..everyones stink but yours



belief is usually the reason for war

i think that when you believe, it is something that is in your heart, that actually steers your mind and body. It doesn't matter what others think- because to yourself you have seen the miracle in your life. Speaking from my own exsperience! If you look for that in a person (because they are human) they will evenyually disappoint you. it is our nature. Lead your own life don't let someone eltes be your voice of reasoning. No one here is doing any better than you are. You have a right to be here and you are valueable!

nah invisible ... that just means that just like here you are also floating through myspace bible thumping

greed is usually the reason for war

but i know you will twist it to

well greed is just

"""believing"""

you should have more

geez adj4u why you're so paraniod and think the negative ..greed is part of "want" and/or "need" as long as that exist it will always be reasons for war

As far as I’m concerned there are only two kinds of people:

1. Those who have personal beliefs and don’t care whether anyone else shares them.

2. Those who think their beliefs are the gospel truth and feel a need to shove them onto others.

The first group of people will all go to heaven.

The second group of people will all go to hell.

This is the only deciding factor in the universe.

Nope, I googled the topic, and that's what I found

google cut and paste ... invisible..you must be so use to doing that with the bible you forgot how to think for yourself ...also are you admitting that I'm the first to phrase it in that manner "to believe is to doubt"

As far as I’m concerned there are only two kinds of people:

1. Those who have personal beliefs and don’t care whether anyone else shares them.

2. Those who think their beliefs are the gospel truth and feel a need to shove them onto others.

The first group of people will all go to heaven.

The second group of people will all go to hell.

This is the only deciding factor in the universe.

A belief is an opinion, and no one thinks their opinion is wrong... Opinions are like A-holes, everyone has one. It is not about lying to your self, it is about what gets you threw the day. Who cares what you belive or what I believe? It is a personal choice, and unless your choice hurts someone else or yourself, it is really no one's business....

"... That which you seek and do not find within, you surely will not find without..." .

Harm none do what thou will.

i think that when you believe, it is something that is in your heart, that actually steers your mind and body. It doesn't matter what others think- because to yourself you have seen the miracle in your life. Speaking from my own exsperience! If you look for that in a person (because they are human) they will evenyually disappoint you. it is our nature.

but you said belief is the reason fo war

and greed has nothing to do with need

with want yes

but need is very misunderstood

most that people consider needs

are really only wants