This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at County High School , Kingston,Tennessee , by school Principal, Jody McLeod.

"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country."

Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, n o problem...

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depict people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it "enlightenment."

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated.

This appears to be inconsistent at best and, at worst, diabolical
Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best and, at worst, hypocritical. I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time.

"However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law...yet."

One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!

The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, under GOD."

Somehow, Kingston , Tennessee Remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Praise GOD that HIS remnant remains!

JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER."

Thank you for bringing that to our attention. It is sickening to know this happens, but God bless the school principal Jody for speaking up and for people to exercise their right to free speech even in PRAYER.

Justice obviously is dead in the Supreme Court. Do they really consider themselves American?

I am curious if they played the National Anthem.

I would like to amend this cranky, opinionated, little mans speech in the following manner.

Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time,
(it was enacted because not every person believes in the same god, and some don’t believe at all. Because this is a public gathering at a public school that is supported and paid for through taxation of every person, no matter their beliefs, it would be thankless of us to consider forcing our religious views upon those who pay for the education of all our children.)

I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK. (So if any of your children are gay, don’t worry, even though I wish I could expel them, I’ve granted approval for their being here. But that’s only because WE)

Condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK. (I’m not worried, I pray for everyone, on Sundays when I go to church)

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, n o problem, (because I’m not teaching the class, so I won’t be forcing my opinionated and narrow minded views on them)

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology." (I expect that’s the least I can do for our native American Indian brethren whose home land we confiscated and are systematically destroying)

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depict people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it "enlightenment." (But I won’t do that, because I can’t have “MY STUDENTS” thinking I’m simple minded and ignorant)

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated. (And I stand behind Federal Case Law 100%, which is why I, personally, don’t want to see any amendments to change our marriage laws, even if they do discriminate.)

This appears to be inconsistent at best and, at worst, diabolical, (I can’t imagine why anyone would put social ethical positions before Gods Law, that would make America seem unchristian)

Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.
(I mean, I just don’t understand why everyone just can’t believe as I do.)

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. (I really don’t care if they agree, I’m in charge. So) for me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best and, at worst, hypocritical. I (think it’s plain to see that I ) suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time. (So I’ll shut up now, after all, your not here to listen to me and my bigoted, insulting, self righteous opinions.)

"However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law...yet." (And if you don’t believe in God or Jesus, just say a mantra or whatever the hell you guys do)

I wonder after this speech how the last part would have unfolded???????

One by one, the people in the stands ( began to mutter, then shout, some left, some of the players were ashamed and a few left the field, those where left either kept shouting or) bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. (Oh please don’t let these really ticked people hurt me, maybe even, Oh dear Lord what kind teachers are teaching my kids) They prayed in the team huddles (well they were actually devising a plan to get rid of the old fart). They prayed at the concession stand (That’s it, I volunteered my time and now all these people are leaving) and they prayed in the Announcer's Box (Thank god he’s done)!

The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, (where freedom, liberty and justice for all is and nowhere in it’s Federal code is required the words .. under GOD."

Somehow, Kingston , Tennessee Remembered what so many have forgotten. (Good teachers should be rewarded and bad ones, even principals should be better chosen) We are given the Freedom OF Religion, (on an individual basis, to each his own, and) not the Freedom (to change or defile)FROM Religion (the foundation which a nation, believers and non, cling to) (So let those who will,) Praise GOD that HIS remnant remains (for giving them a country with a constitution that values the basic human rights of everyone)!

JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER."
(So be not ashamed, and prove yourself worthy, by following the actions of the Man/God you so deeply admire. Feed the poor, without disgust, welcome the indigent, without fear of their culture, comfort the sick, support the weak, and make no judgments while administering these actions, pray with those would ask , otherwise pray as you were told, in your heart.)

Britty,

You wrtote:
'... Justice obviously is dead in the Supreme Court. Do they really consider themselves American?...'

The Supreme Court is there to admisnister US laws. A cornerstone for all US laws, is the US Constitution. And a big part of the US Constitution is the First Amendment.

... and big part of he first amendment are:

... the ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE which prohibits Congress from making any laws seeking 1) the establishment of a national religion, and 2) the preference of one religion over another.

... and The FREE EXERCISE of religion, which is a guarantee for freedom of belief for individuals, and freedom of worship for individuals and groups. It is generally recognized to also include the freedom not to follow, or not believe in any religion.

The ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE is applied to the PUBLIC DOMAIN of living together, while FREE EXERCISE of religion is applied to the private domain of living together.

The Supreme Court is administering most brilliantly, a no less brilliant piece of human wisdom, the Constitution, which has been providing a context for unequalled freedoms, unconditional human rights and human dignity, and unparraled prosperity for all.

And as they say in a democracy, what's good for the one must be good for all.

The Constitution remembers that always, and without flinching!!!

And that's a good thing, because a lot of us forget!!!

Actually I would have to say that to me "Freedom of religion" DOES in fact mean "Freedom from religion" especially when it comes to public institutions.

We have a PUBLIC school system. We REQUIRE all children to attend school. Therefore, if you have religious elements in your school you are now requiring children to participate in a religion that may not agree with their parents wishes.

Freedom is not just "freedom to" there is also "freedom from".

Freedom to worship the God of ones choice and freedom from being made to worship another god.

Please let me ask you, if the principal of the school had pulled out a prayer rug and asked that all face towards Mecca and pray in Allah's name do you think those same people would have felt good about it?

What about if the principal had asked for a prayer to the goddess and ended it "blessed be"?

I'm thinking these would not be ok with everyone and so how is this ok?

We have majority rule in this country but we also have minority rights and protections. That is one of the foundations of this nation and I hope we continue to have it.

Peace.

Just to clarify I wanted to add this explanation from our own state department on:

"Majority Rule, Minority Rights

On the surface, the principles of majority rule and the protection of individual and minority rights would seem contradictory. In fact, however, these principles are twin pillars holding up the very foundation of what we mean by democratic government.

Majority rule is a means for organizing government and deciding public issues; it is not another road to oppression. Just as no self-appointed group has the right to oppress others, so no majority, even in a democracy, should take away the basic rights and freedoms of a minority group or individual.

Minorities -- whether as a result of ethnic background, religious belief, geographic location, income level, or simply as the losers in elections or political debate -- enjoy guaranteed basic human rights that no government, and no majority, elected or not, should remove. Minorities need to trust that the government will protect their rights and self-identity. Once this is accomplished, such groups can participate in, and contribute to their country's democratic institutions.

Among the basic human rights that any democratic government must protect are freedom of speech and expression; freedom of religion and belief; due process and equal protection under the law; and freedom to organize, speak out, dissent, and participate fully in the public life of their society.

Democracies understand that protecting the rights of minorities to uphold cultural identity, social practices, individual consciences, and religious activities is one of their primary tasks.
Acceptance of ethnic and cultural groups that seem strange if not alien to the majority can represent one of the greatest challenges that any democratic government can face. But democracies recognize that diversity can be an enormous asset. They treat these differences in identity, culture, and values as a challenge that can strengthen and enrich them, not as a threat.

There can be no single answer to how minority-group differences in views and values are resolved -- only the sure knowledge that only through the democratic process of tolerance, debate, and willingness to compromise can free societies reach agreements that embrace the twin pillars of majority rule and minority rights."

Source: http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/principles/majority.htm

Voil and Anoasis,

Thank-you for the intellect, I had a momentary lapse. I'm better now.

There was much discussion prior to the writing of the Constitution. What is so captivating and amazing is that we have much of those discussion available to us in the documents call the Federalist Papers. It's old world english, and requires a bit of thought, but it is so well worth the effort.
Here is a quote. In its original form it has been attributed to either Alexander Hamilton or James Madison.

" Justice is the end of government. It is the end of civil society. It ever has been and ever will be pursued until it be obtained, or until liberty be lost in the pursuit. In a society under the forms of which the stronger faction can readily unite and oppress the weaker, anarchy may as truly be said to reign as in a state of nature, where the weaker individual is not secured against the violence of the stronger; and as, in the latter state, even the stronger individuals are prompted, by the uncertainty of their condition, to submit to a government which may protect the weak as well as themselves; so, in the former state, will the more powerful factions or parties be gradnally induced, by a like motive, to wish for a government which will protect all parties, the weaker as well as the more powerful." (1788)

Thk you Voileazur for the useful information. I still have plenty of reading to do as I am working on being a US Citizen.

It's worthwhile making a comment, because one gains so much insight!!

I love to see the American flag everywhere, and value the Pledge of Allegiance and the Constitution even though I do not know every single point by heart.

I do understand prayer should not be used to make someone do or say something they do not believe in, and I personally prefer to pray alone. I would respect another's beliefs, and keep silent when they pray.

Anoasis,
I do not like to pull out pieces of someone's post, but I did not want to make a mistake either, so:
--
Please let me ask you, if the principal of the school had pulled out a prayer rug and asked that all face towards Mecca and pray in Allah's name do you think those same people would have felt good about it?
---
I would respectfully decline, as I always thought people could when others prayed and they did not wish to partake.

If the day came when I had to do as they suggest, I would respectfully refuse.

Would you stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance if someone asked you not to? Do not wish to offend as I truly enjoy reading your posts.

I hope I am right in believing that, that is an important part of being an American and it should not be changed or undervalued.

Voileazur - At least I wasn't being shy :)

Anoasis wrote:
“Actually I would have to say that to me "Freedom of religion" DOES in fact mean "Freedom from religion" especially when it comes to public institutions.”

That’s exactly correct.

And Dianna’s post concerning what the people would do after the school president had given his speech is correct too.

Where does the President get off just ASSUMING that everyone at the game believes in Christianity?

The Principal said,…
"However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law...yet."

Where does the Principal get off assuming that everyone thinks of god as a HIM or needs to communicate with god through a their party named JESUS?

That’s PRECISELY why the law was passed! To avoid such prejudiced nonsense in public facilities!

To protect the people FROM the Principal’s religious views!

How would the Christians feel if the Principal happened to be Islamic and said that everyone is free to honor, praise, and thank GOD and worship HIM in the name of ALLAH!

I’ll bet all the Christians would get up and walk out!

Well, duh?

The kind of rhetoric displayed in the OP just shows how closed-minded Christians really are!

It NOT about CHRISTIANITY! It’s about FREEDOM from RELIGION in general!

And yes, it’s freedom FROM having it pushed on us by public tax-paid intuitions.

I’m not a Christian why would I want to pray in Jesus’ name?

Leave me alone. Don’t SHOVE your religion down my THROAT in a public facility that I helped PAY for.

Damn! What’s wrong with you people anyway?

It’s NOT about CHRISTIANITY!

It’s about allowing each person the freedom to believe in THEIR OWN religion (or atheism).

Why do Christians feel that they are the only target of this law? NO religion is permitted to do this! NONE!

This law protects Christians TOO! It just isn't obvious to them because they had the upper hand and were in control for so long they just can't imagine what it would be like if some other religion had gotten away with what they got away with for SO MANY YEARS!

Abra, good points.

Britty-

RE: I wrote: "Please let me ask you, if the principal of the school had pulled out a prayer rug and asked that all face towards Mecca and pray in Allah's name do you think those same people would have felt good about it? "
---
You wrote: "I would respectfully decline, as I always thought people could when others prayed and they did not wish to partake.

If the day came when I had to do as they suggest, I would respectfully refuse.

Would you stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance if someone asked you not to? Do not wish to offend as I truly enjoy reading your posts."
___

I am not offended. I enjoy reading your posts as well. Everyone does not have to agree with me for me to enjoy their posts or like them as an individual.

I'm glad that you feel confident enough to refuse to pray when unmoved to do so. But IMO it is not so easy for children to "respectfully refuse" to do something an authority figure (e.g. principal) asks them to do. They are taught to obey their principal. So when he asks them to pray to Jesus, to me I find it coersive.

I'm so glad you mentioned the Pledge of Alegiance!! So few know the origin and history of our pledge. This dismays me because the original Pledge of Alligence did not include the words "under god". Those words were added later (See below details). So the Pledge was a secular speech intended only to show allegience to this nation, not to any deity. Below is a history of the pledge and the changes it has undegone (there are many source for this info, the below is from religious tolerence.org).

"Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God." The current Pledge reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

The Pledge is recited, on average, tens of millions of times a day -- largely by students in schools across America.

On 2002-JUN-26, a three judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2 to 1 to declare the Pledge unconstitutional because of the addition of the phrase "under God." This decision only affects the states of AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA. However, the ruling will only take effect if it is upheld on appeal. The decision may be appealed to the entire 9th U.S. Circuit Court, or to the U.S. Supreme Court.

It is interesting to note that this decision happened to occur one day after the 40th anniversary of the Engel v. Vitale decision by the U.S. Supreme Court, which declared unconstitutional the inclusion of state-sponsored school prayer as a part of instruction in public schools. The Texas Justice Foundation had declared that anniversary a day of mourning. 1,2



History of the Pledge of Allegiance:

The Pledge was originally written in 1892-AUG by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931). He was an American, a Baptist minister, and an active Socialist. He included some of the concepts of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, who wrote a number of socialist utopian novels, such as Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897). In its original form, it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

It was first published in a children's magazine Youth's Companion, in 1892 to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus' arrival in the Americas. 4 The word "to" was added before "the Republic" in 1892-OCT. He considered including the word "equality" in the pledge, but decided against it because he knew that many Americans at the time were opposed to equality for women and African-Americans. Opposition to equality continues today; a sizeable minority of American adults remain opposed to equal rights for women, gays and lesbians.

By 1924, the "National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Francis Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored." 3

Most Jehovah's Witness children refuse to acknowledge the flag. In 1940, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that school boards could compel them to recite the Pledge. The court reversed itself three years later. 4

In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - ) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part: "Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow." After the service, President Eisenhower said that he agreed with the sermon. In the following weeks, the news spread, and public opinion grew. Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time: "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." 4 With the addition of "under God" to the Pledge, it became both "a patriotic oath and a public prayer...Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change." 3

The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism.

Most communists, worldwide, are Atheists. But, in North America, the reverse is not true; most Atheists are non-communists. Although there are many Atheistic and Humanistic legislators at the federal and state levels, few if any are willing to reveal their beliefs, because of the intense prejudice against these belief systems.

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review this change to the Pledge. The Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that: "[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." [Allegheny, 492 U.S.]"

I know that was long but I think if you're going to stand up and say something, over and over again, with your hand on your heart, you should be aware of what it means.... I say the original pledge because I although I believe in God and am not offended by mention of a god, I also believe strongly in seperation of church and state and this crosses a line towards theocracy for me.

Peace.

Anoasis: Awesome!

Abra: Don't hold back, now!

I remember in 1st or 2nd grade saying the pledge and just skipping the words 'under God', because it would have been dishonest for me to say them...and feeling unwelcome in my own country.

Anoasis: Awesome!

Abra: Don't hold back, now!

I remember in 1st or 2nd grade saying the pledge and just skipping the words 'under God', because it would have been dishonest for me to say them...and feeling unwelcome in my own country.

massagetrade, You should not feel unwelcome in your own country. I know what that is like. I went back to England for a while after being in the states for several years. People are the way they are. Even when I was there I wore a US flag pin and bow in my hair on July 4th!!!

If you don't get the fact that I love this country, you never will.

Anoasis: I was responding to your question personally, myself as an adult. Not responding to how I would feel if I was an American child.

everyone:
I realize that each state has their own various laws on the Pledge of Allegiance.

It appears our focus is on slightly different things. Mine, surprisingly was not on God.

The flag, the national anthem and other symbols of American unity are important to me and I hope that they will be important to others.

I have asked several friends about this. I do not go to ball games, or have children in school.

This article is from some time in the year 2000.

My thought was: Did they play the anthem? I assume they did.

If the American people want the Under God removed from the Pledge of Allegiance that is their choice.

Do I feel saddened to see Americans not valuing the flag, or not realizing the significance of the symbols of American unity, yes I do. That topic was from the year 2000, I was thinking, about the future, what's next?

There are reasons why I feel strongly about the American flag, National Anthem etc., but that's the subject of another topic.

What a horrible, horrible little story.

I stand my position in the sense that government should not have to be involved with religion.
if i want to pray within public facilities because I'm a christian, I will do it. If you want to put me in jail or fine me for that well do it, as if i care.
Somebody said that this was a cranky biased opinion, I will refute that because If gay people have the right to be gay, and be respected for that I also have the right to do whatever I want within my faith as long as I respect other's choices.
I absolutely stand with Britty's position.
Some people cry for being respected as they are, but do they respect others?

I will keep it simple.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


No-one will stop me from caring.

Britty-

There is no prohibition from playing the national anthem, there never has been, just from praying.

TLW-

I don't believe anyone is saying people should not be allowed to pray as they wish, in school or out. the thing I, and some others, object to is the principal "requesting" that all pray with him at a school event. I know you have stated frequently that you belive in seperation of church and state and that is what i would like to see preserved as well.

anoasis said:

"object to is the principal "requesting" that all pray with him at a school event."

If that were the only issue i would be fine.
But using that to call christians who express their faith in public cranky biased, it's not right.