I agree, the Boy Scouts, as far as I know have never claimed to be a Christian organization. They do stand on the premise of God, and that makes them a religious affiliation. And of course we all know that in "this country" the ony ones who have rights to the word God are Christians - for they seem to have adopted the organization as one of their own.

But that's not what the concern is. The concern is that this very public entity, with deep roots, and a history of providing good will, is discriminating against another group within this society. If it intends to contunue in that vein than it needs to become a private entity and claim no religious tax breaks and no tax entitlements.

Red, gays don't hide because of me. I know people who are gay and I would never insult them. Most of them have enough self respect to stay away from children too. But once in a while you might meet someone who just doesn't have the look of someone you can trust. Its a matter of instinct. It might be right or it might not. But if you feel that instinctive feeling that you should keep your kids from this person or that, what do you do?

Your post is not too clear so maybe you can clarify a little for me. Do you think I should hand my kids over to gays for weekend fun? Is that what you are saying? Because if it is I would be surprised. Do you think I should encourage others to hand their kids over to gays for the weekend? Because it so I would be surprised about that as well.

So if you think somewhere in philosophy there is some written word that a person has to hand their children unsupervised to gay strangers, and I've somehow crossed the line by not abiding, get over it, it doesn't taste so bad from here to watch out for my kids.

Scatterbrain, let me see. Did you say "it is well known that heterosexual men are most often responsible for molesting boys"?
Because if that is what you said, then isn't it contradictory? Wouldn't they be gay if they were molesting boys rather than girls? While I'm asking you questions, would you send your kids off to be supervised by gays for the weekend?

Scout Oath (or Promise)

On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

Scout Law

TRUSTWORTHY
A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

LOYAL
A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

HELPFUL
A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

FRIENDLY
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

COURTEOUS
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

KIND
A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

OBEDIENT
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

CHEERFUL
A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

THRIFTY
A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

BRAVE
A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

CLEAN
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

Scout Motto

Be Prepared

Scout Slogan

Do a Good Turn Daily

Merit Badges Which Are In Current Use And Their Predecessor

American Business (15) 1967-present (Business 1911-66)
American Cultures (17) 1979-present
American Heritage (16) 1975-present
American Labor (121) 1987-present
Animal Science (18) 1975-present (Animal Industry 1928-75)
Archeology (132) 1997-present
Archery ~~ (19) 1911-present
Architecture (20) 1911-present
Art (21) 1911-present
Astronomy (22) 1911-present
Athletics ~~ (23) 1911-present
Auto Mechanics (127) 1992-present
Aviation (25) 1911-42 & 1952-present (Aerodynamics, etc. 1942-52)
Backpacking (26) 1982-present
Basketry (27) 1927-present (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Bird Study (29) 1914-present (Ornithology 1911-13)
Bugling (32) 1911-present
Camping * (1) 1911-present
Canoeing (33) 1927-present
Chemistry (34) 1911-present
Cinematography (126) 1990-present
Citizenship in the Community * (2) 1952-present (Citizenship (Civics) 1947-51)
Citizenship in the Nation * (3) 1951-present (Citizenship (Civics) 1947-51)
Citizenship in the World * (4) 1972-present (World Brotherhood 1952-72)
Climbing (133) 1997-present
Coin Collecting (35) 1938-present
Collections (128) 1991-present
Communications * (5) 1965-present
Composite Materials (137) 2006-present
Computers (36) 1967-present
Cooking ~ (38) 1911-present
Crime Prevention (131) 1996-present
Cycling *** ~~ (39) 1911-present (Cyclist ~~~ 1910-11)
Dentistry (40) 1975-present
Disabilities Awareness (60) 1993-present (Handicap Awareness (60) 1985-93)
Dog Care (41) 1938-present
Drafting (42) 1965-present (Mechanical Drawing 1933-64)
Electricity (43) 1911-present (Electrician ~~~ 1910-11)
Electronics (44) 1963-present
Emergency Preparedness ** (6) 1972-present
Energy (45) 1976-present
Engineering (46) 1967-present
Entrepreneurship (134) 1997-present (Business 1911-66)
Environmental Science * (7) 1972-present(Conservation of Natural Resources 1966-72)
Family Life * (129) 1991-present (Citizenship in the Home 1952-72)
Farm Mechanics (48) 1928-present
Fingerprinting (49) 1938-present
Fire Safety (50) 1995-present (Firemanship (50) 1911-95)
First Aid * (8) 1911-present (Ambulance 1910)
Fish & Wildlife Mgmt.(51) 1972-present (Wildlife Mgmt. 1952-72)
Fishing ~~ (52) 1952-present (Angling 1911-51)
Fly Fishing (136) 2002-present (Fishing merit badge still exists)
Forestry ~~ (54) 1911-present
Gardening (55) 1911-present (Gardener ~~~ 1910-11)
Genealogy (56) 1972-present
Geology (58) 1953-present (Rocks & Minerals 1937-53)
Golf (59) 1976-present
Graphic Arts (122) 1987-present (Printing/Communications (88) 1982-88)
Hiking *** ~~ (61) 1921-present
Home Repairs (62) 1943-present (Handicraft 1911-42)
Horsemanship ~~ (63) 1911-present (Horseman ~~~ 1910-11)
Indian Lore (64) 1931-present
Insect Study (65) 1987-present (Insect Life 1923-86)
Journalism (66) 1927-present
Landscape Architecture (67) 1967-present (Landscaping 1959-66)
Law (68) 1974-present
Leatherwork (69) 1951-present (Leather Work 1928-51)
Lifesaving ** ~ (9) 1911-present
Mammal Study (71) 1987-present (Mammals 1972-86)
Medicine (130) 1991-present
Metalwork (74) 1927-present (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Model Design & Building (75) 1963-present
Motorboating ~~ (76) 1961-present
Music (77) 1911-present (Musician ~~~ 1910-11)
Nature ~ (78) 1952-present
Nuclear Science (24) 2005-present (Atomic Energy 1963-04)
Oceanography (79) 1964-present
Orienteering (80) 1973-present (Pathfinding 1911-52)
Painting (81) 1911-present
Personal Fitness * ~~ ~(10) 1952-present (Physical Development 1914-52
& Personal Health 1911-52)
Personal Management * (11) 1972-present (Personal Finances 1962-71)
Pets (82) 1958-present
Photography (83) 1911-present
Pioneering (84) 1911-present (Pioneer ~~~ 1910-11)
Plant Science (85) 1974-present
Plumbing (86) 1911-present
Pottery (87) 1927-present (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Public Health ~ (89) 1911-present
Public Speaking (90) 1932-present
Pulp & Paper (91) 1972-present
Radio (93) 1923-present (Wireless 1919-23)
Railroading (94) 1952-present
Reading (95) 1929-present
Reptile & Amphibian Study (96) 1993-present (Reptile Study (96) 1927-93)
Rifle Shooting (123) 1987-present (Rifle & Shotgun Shooting (97) 1967-87)
Rowing (98) 1933-present
Safety ~ (12) 1927-present (Safety First 1916-26)
Salesmanship (99) 1927-present
Scholarship (100) 1911-present
Sculpture (101) 1911-present
Shotgun Shooting (124) 1987-present (Rifle & Shotgun Shooting (97) 1967-87)
Skating (103) 1973-present
Small Boat Sailing (105) 1964-present (Seamanship 1911-64)
Snow Sports (135) 1999-present (Skiing (104) 1938-99)
Soil & Water Conservation ~ (106)1952-present (Soil Management 1928-52)
Space Exploration (107) 1965-present
Sports ~~ (13) 1972-present
Stamp Collecting (108) 1931-present
Surveying (109) 1911-present
Swimming *** ~ (14) 1911-present
Textile (110) 1973-present (Textiles 1927-72)
Theater (111) 1967-present (Dramatics 1932-66)
Traffic Safety (112) 1975-present (Automotive Safety 1962-74)
Truck Transportation (113) 1973-present
Veterinary Medicine (114) 1995-present (Veterinary Science (114) 1973-95)
Waterskiing (115) 1969-present
Weather (116) 1927-present
Whitewater (125) 1987-present
Wilderness Survival (117) 1973-present
Wood Carving (118) 1927-present (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Woodwork (119) 1927-present (Craftsmanship 1911-26)

Key: * indicates Eagle required
** indicates one of 2 is Eagle required
*** indicates one of 3 is Eagle required
~ indicates formerly Eagle required
~~ indicates formerly an Eagle multiple choice.
~~~ indicates from the 1910 BSA Handbook (called the book of organization)
by Chief Scout, Ernest Thompson Seton, had 14 Badges of Merit. The
first Handbook recognized presently by the BSA was in 1911.

Return to top.
Merit Badges Which Are No Longer In Use and Their Predecessor

Aerodynamics 1942-52 (Aviation 1911-42)
Aeronautics 1942-52 (Aviation 1911-42)
Agribusiness (120) 1987-95 (Farm & Ranch Management (47) 1980-87)
Agriculture 1911-75
Airplane Design 1942-52 (Aviation 1911-42)
Airplane Structure 1942-52 (Aviation 1911-42)
Ambulance ~~~ 1910-11
Angling 1911-51
Animal Industry 1928-75
Atomic Energy (24) 1963-04
Automobiling 1911-63
Automotive Safety 1962-74 (Automobiling 1911-63)
Bee Keeping 1915-55 (Beefarming 1911-14)
Beef Production 1928-75
Beefarming 1911-14
Beekeeping (28) 1956-95 (Bee Keeping 1915-55)
Blacksmithing 1911-52
Bookbinding (30) 1927-87 (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Botany (31) 1921-95
Business 1911-66 (Clerk ~~~ 1910-11)
Carpentry 1911-52
Cement Work 1927-52 (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Citizenship (Civics) 1947-51 (Civics 1911-46)
Citizenship in the Home 1952-72 (Citizenship (Civics) 1947-51)
Citrus Fruit Culture 1931-52
Civics 1911-46
Clerk ~~~ 1910-11
Conservation 1911-52
Conservation of Natural Resources ~ 1966-72 (Conservation 1911-52)
Consumer Buying (37) 1975-95
Corn Farming 1928-75
Cotton Farming 1931-75
Craftsmanship 1911-26
Cyclist ~~~ 1910-11
Dairying 1911-75
Dramatics 1932-66
Electrician ~~~ 1910-11
Farm & Ranch Management (47) 1980-87 (Farm Records 1959-80)
Farm Arrangement 1960-73 (Farm Home & Its Planning 1928-59)
Farm Arrangements 1974-79 (Farm Arrangement 1960-73)
Farm Home & Its Planning 1928-59
Farm Layout & Building Arrangements 1928-59
Farm Records & Bookkeeping 1928-58
Farm Records 1959-80 (Farm Records & Bookkeeping 1928-58)
Firemanship ~ (50) 1911-95 (Fireman ~~~ 1910-11)
First Aid To Animals 1911-72
Food Systems (53) 1978-87 (Agriculture 1911-75)
Forage Crops 1959-75 (Grasses, Legumes, & Forage Crops 1938-58)
Foundry Practice 1923-52
Fruit & Nut Growing 1953-75 (Fruit Culture/Nut Culture 1928-54
& Citrus Fruit Culture 1931-52)
Fruit Culture 1928-54
Gardener ~~~ 1910-11
General Science (57) 1972-95 (Zoology 1930-72)
Grasses, Legumes, & Forage Crops 1938-58
Handicap Awareness (60) 1985-93 (Handicapped Awareness 1980-85)
Handicapped Awareness 1980-85
Handicraft 1911-42
Hog & Pork Production 1928-58
Hog Production 1959-75 (Hog & Pork Production 1928-58)
Horseman ~~~ 1910-11
Insect Life 1923-86
Interpreting 1911-52
Invention 1911-17
Landscape Gardening 1930-58
Landscaping 1959-66 (Landscape Gardening 1930-58)
Leather Work 1928-51 (Leatherworking 1911-27)
Leathercraft 1927-52 (Craftsmanship 1911-26)
Leatherworking 1911-27
Machinery (70) 1911-95
Mammals 1972-86
Marksman ~~~ 1910-11
Marksmanship ~~ 1911-66 (Marksman ~~~ 1910-11)
Masonry (72) 1911-95
Master-at-Arms ~~~ 1910-11 (consisted of single stick, boxing, ju jitsu,
wrestling, quarter staff and fencing.)
Mechanical Drawing 1933-64
Metallurgy 1965-71
Metals Engineering (73) 1972-95 (Metallurgy 1965-71)
Mining 1911-37
Musician ~~~ 1910-11
Nut Culture 1928-54
Ornithology 1911-13
Pathfinding 1911-52
Personal Finances 1962-71
Personal Health 1911-52
Physical Development 1914-52
Pigeon Raising 1933-80
Pioneer ~~~ 1910-11
Poultry Farming 1911-13
Poultry Keeping 1914-75 (Poultry Farming 1911-13)
Printing 1911-81
Printing/Communications (88) 1982-87 (Printing 1911-81)
Rabbit Raising (92) 1943-93
Reptile Study (96) 1927-93 (Reptiles 1926)
Reptiles 1926
Rifle & Shotgun Shooting (97) 1967-87 (Marksmanship 1911-66)
Rocks & Minerals 1937-53 (Mining 1911-37)
Safety First 1916-26
Seaman ~~~ 1910-11
Seamanship 1911-64 (Seaman ~~~ 1910-11)
Sheep Farming 1928-75
Signaller ~~~ 1910-11
Signaling (103) 1911-91 (Signaller ~~~ 1910-11)
Skiing (104) 1938-99
Small Grains & Cereal Foods 1943-1958
Small Grains 1959-75 (Small Grains & Cereal Foods 1943-1958)
Soil Management 1928-52
Stalker ~~~ 1910-11
Stalking 1911-52 (Stalker ~~~ 1910-11)
Taxidermy 1911-52
Textiles 1927-72
Veterinary Science (114) 1973-95 (First Aid To Animals 1911-72)
Wildlife Management ~~ 1952-72 (Conservation 1911-52)
Wireless 1919-23
Wood Turning 1930-52
World Brotherhood 1952-72 (Citizenship (Civics) 1947-51)
Zoology 1930-72

Of course you must understand that I am in close contact with gay and lesbian people. To tell you the truth I would not intrust my children or grandchildren to ANYONE. I am much more afraid to leave my kids with men...period. Family or otherwise. I watch VERY closely. I must however tell you that I AM more comfortable with the idea of leaving my kids with gays than heterosexual men.
As far as heteros molestin children, male and female they are most usually married and have this secret side of them. So...no. I do not believe that these pedophiles are gay.
Kat

I just peeked in and read the boy scout preamble. What a crock for the most part. I know many of them. And I knew plenty of them. Just the same as any other boy or girl. Lie, get into trouble, steal and juvinile. Not all, but most. Sorry. Boyscout doesn't mean better. It is just a club, as religion or politics.
Kat

Oops, I meant to any stranger. Not anyone.

Philosopher:
“Red, gays don't hide because of me. I know people who are gay and I would never insult them. Most of them have enough self respect to stay away from children too.”

So you ‘know’ some gay people, but obviously you only know they’re gay, because if you really knew them, you know if you could trust them to be around your kids.

“But once in a while you might meet someone who just doesn't have the look of someone you can trust. Its a matter of instinct. It might be right or it might not. But if you feel that instinctive feeling that you should keep your kids from this person or that, what do you do?”

What does this have to do with being gay? Is that the only time you EVER get that feeling?

“Do you think I should hand my kids over to gays for weekend fun? Is that what you are saying? Because if it is I would be surprised. Do you think I should encourage others to hand their kids over to gays for the weekend? Because it so I would be surprised about that as well. “

Let’s try it this way, Phil - Yes, I think if you are willing to hand your kid over to a school and you are willing to let your kid be involved with something like the Scouts, then you are just as correct to ‘hand them over’ to a certified, background checked Scout leader, as in any of the other cases.

“So if you think somewhere in philosophy there is some written word that a person has to hand their children unsupervised to gay strangers, and I've somehow crossed the line by not abiding, get over it, it doesn't taste so bad from here to watch out for my kids.”

So now you actually differentiate between gay strangers and straight strangers? How do you even begin to teach that concept to a child??

“”Scatterbrain, let me see. Did you say "it is well known that heterosexual men are most often responsible for molesting boys"?
Because if that is what you said, then isn't it contradictory? Wouldn't they be gay if they were molesting boys rather than girls? While I'm asking you questions, would you send your kids off to be supervised by gays for the weekend?””

You are very confused. A person who molests another, forces another into some sexual activity, is not doing so to pursue a loving, joyful relationship. Such a person can be any gender and they can molest any gender. Statistically, as Kat said, it is heterosexual men who are the abusers.

Also, before you say it, Rape is an act of violence, not an act of sex. Statistics also show that heterosexual white adult males are the greatest perpetrators, and yes a large portion of those raped are young boys and young men. And it has nothing to do with the sexual nature of either the perpetrator or the victim.

Seems to me they are trying to instill values and build character in the kids. Its up to the kids to learn and improve themselves ultimately.

I may be with you in one regard. I wouldn't hand my kids off to strangers either, gay or not. Its not all about who is gay and who is not, its about protecting your children. Trouble is, at some point you have to let your kids go and learn on their own. You can't watch and protect them forever. The best you can do is mitigate the risks by making careful choices. Still it seems to me that the risks go up when you let unsupervised children have weekend sleepovers with gays. Besides that, what has sex got to do with any of the values they are trying to engender? I just don't think it belongs in the organization.

Maybe a hundred years from not everyone will be gay and society's mores will be changed. You all want to do your part by promoting change now, for your own reasons, maybe in the name of tolerance. But I don't see a lot of tolerance here for me stating I would like to watch out for my own kids and the kids of others. Maybe in a hundred years there will be more tolerance for people who want to care for their children and nobody will be gay. Howzat?


Red you may be right that they should not be afforded tax free status. I hardly consider them to be a religious group. Personally I think they should get regular governmental grants to support the group, just for the nobility of their cause, which has nothing to do with sex.

Scatter brain, do you object to these?
Scout Motto
Be Prepared
Scout Slogan
Do a Good Turn Daily
I'm wondering which points you found so objectionable.

Red, school is not scouts. In school they go for the day and they are out by 3 or so. Scouts they go sleep in tents for weekend camp trips. Camping is actually a lot of fun. I just don't think sex belongs there among the children. Gay scout masters and gay scouts may be just fine, but a lot more people than me think they shouldn't be handed the children for the weekend.

I'm not a bit confused. I just don't want gays managing my children for weekends away from home. As for the difference of child predators and gays, remember that a characteristic of child predators is that they often try to get themselves in positions of trust, managing, working or playing with kids. So gay scout leaders may or may not fall into that category.

You are suggesting that I should trust the judgment of others in this matter, and in fact that your judgment is better than mine. I'm surprised by this because for one thing, when it comes to the care of my kids, it is my judgment that matters, not the judgment of others or you.

I support the boy scouts for trying to keep sex out of their organization. The group is not about sex, its about learning and growth. Anyone who wants to turn it into a sexual playing field is missing the entire point and trying to corrupt a fine organization.

Phil...sorry dude. I was only supposing that you were saying that because these are their rules that they are ....doing, living by them? Not so much, you see. Boyscouts these days and not so long ago were and are just as always boys. Not any better. I could only wish that these young scouts lived by the rules of their troops or gang or whatever it is called. Sorry..."club" truly could not think of what it was called. It is no better than girl scouts or brownies. Just a club to be a part of. Fun, but no better.
I do not object to any of those things, you see. I just see them as any other rule.
Kat

Arrrrrrggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Why in the hell do people think that being gay or lesbian is about SEX!!!! That is soooo idiotic! It is about people finding and falling in love as much as it is for straight people! Geeeeze...
Kat

When a club or people reject or leave out a child because he or she is homosexual, they are in effect making it about sex. Not being a human child. But about fear of their own fear.
Boys are boys. No matter where they are. I know and you know and we all know that boys experiment at a very early age. With each other. Some choose to forget it. Convenient...
Boys touch, play, jerk and and experiement with each other and always have. But do they all become gay? No. They either are, or they are not. Girls do it too. Animals do it.

Corrupt is what I call it. A corrupt people that tell a child they are not good enough because all they can see or think about is SEX!
Kat

Arrrrrrggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Do you think you can speak equally accurately for boys as well as girls in this instance? Are 11 and 12 year old boys out there looking for love? I don't think they are whether they are gay or straight.

Gay lifestyles are not something I want to oppose in particular. I just want some care taken with the children and their influences. When someone is a young adult they transition into a phase where they gradually become responsible for their own choices. But as children, their parents are responsible as well.

Somebody step in here. I don't want to be the lone voice supporting the children.

Sat 10/20/07 05:52 PM
Arrrrrrggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Do you think you can speak equally accurately for boys as well as girls in this instance? Are 11 and 12 year old boys out there looking for love? I don't think they are whether they are gay or straight.

Gay lifestyles are not something I want to oppose in particular. I just want some care taken with the children and their influences. When someone is a young adult they transition into a phase where they gradually become responsible for their own choices. But as children, their parents are responsible as well.

Somebody step in here. I don't want to be the lone voice supporting the children.
===============================

What part do you not get here? I am not saying that 11 and 12 year old boys are all about sex, yet I do know from own neice that it is on their minds.

Now, about boys and the scouts being about sex, it seems it is the adults that have the problems here. Kids work it out. I have no problem with boyscouts, I am just saying that they have no right leaving a young boy out because he is gay. No more so than if he were black or hispanic or whatever. It is just not right,
Kat

Oh yeahh...The kids might run across a Clifford Robert Olsen, a Charles Manson, or a Timothy McVeigh..

OOPS! By bad...those guys weren't gay..

Sorry..

Somebody step in here. I don't want to be the lone voice supporting the children. ================================
=====================================

Are you kidding me!?? Lone voice supporting children?? I'll have you know I have supported many children and their ideas and choices. My own as well as friends and neighbors. All well and good so far. I speak for all children, I will have you know.

Kat

Hi bobby, I mean bibby. How ya doin hun?
Kat

Doin' better sinc you said hi, Kat, love..

*EDIT 'Since you said hi, Kat, love'

Hows the love connection?
Kat