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| Topic: Fighting poverty or punishing the poor? | |
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Edited by
Serverousprime
on
Sat 09/20/14 02:31 PM
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No you can't say it's a spiritual problem. because the statistics prove that. There is a limited amount of jobs available. not everyone can have one. approximately 1 out of 7 jobs is one that is below 10 per hour and thus considered under paid. Mainly because those in them can't make enough money. There are people that work 70 hours a week and can't pay the bills because of prices of rent, food, and other necessities. For them working is a neg sum game because they lost before it even started. All they have to live for is more debt, more despair, and more people telling them that they aren't making it because they don't believe enough. Wake up people the poor is real. And they won't go away by wishing them to. Oh and blaming the government doesn't fix the problem either. Hi Server....I just came in a couple of pages ago to read and absorb...and get to know you a little better  ...It's easy to help the helpless because they have no need to cheat the system and it is impossible for them to hide the truth of their situation from their neighbor because they do not have the resources to do so...It becomes harder to figure out how to help a helpless person who really can help him or her self...That does not mean they should not BE HELPED, it only means charity is not only NOT THE ANSWER, it is the one thing that will exacerbate the problem by growing it over time....You keep asking others here to tell you what they would do to help the helpless, but you refuse to acknowledge their answers and you respond back to them sarcastically and condescendingly..Why?...All you manage to do is example one more, very serious, aspect of why the problem is growing...All of the proposed solutions I read address one or more "parts" of the whole...Starting somewhere in the middle only makes a big problem bigger..Government and its citizens need to begin at the beginning and work forward...Since ineffective government entitlement programs, government regs, irresponsible spending, fraud, and dirty politics are the root cause of escalating poverty...AND...because government has access to the monumental amount of money it will take to, not end poverty (that will never happen), but reduce it to a managable size, "helping the helpless' needs to begin there....Those that can work need jobs, those that are working need adequate wages...those that lack skills need education and training....The list of problems contained "in the whole" is long and much of it is the direct result of big government.....If you have laid out a plan to "help the helpless", tell me which page it's on, I'd like to read it...If you only have something sarcastic to say to me, don't...I care about this problem just as much as you do....
Thank you leigh for giving me perspective on this issue. While it wasn't for the most part my intention to be sarcastic, I do understand how people could perceive my words as such. I think that when I see others mocking someone else's beliefs it becomes a knee jerk reaction to be sarcastic back. I will do my best to no longer do that. I still don't find this issue a laughing mater though. With that said, my conscience dictates that when I see a fallacy in anyone's statement or argument, I have to point out that fallacy. This is something that I must continue, so that people reading this blog will be able to read it with an objective mind; see many different perspectives; hopefully change the misconceptions in their own schema's; and arrive at a logical or reasonable conclusion about the matter at hand. You are right that it would appear that I was neglecting others perspectives when it came this issue. Even though I may feel that how they presented it was degrading and disrespectful, that doesn't mean that they have a point to discuss (this also may have contributed to my snarky remarks so I apologize for this as well). With that said, you have made a good point that "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" is a valid way to fix the issue. So the options that are on this post so far are, "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" "Increasing Charitable donations that aren't involved in the government" "Education of the poor and advocating for increase of wages through civil disobedience or protests" "Increasing the minimum wage based on the relative poverty level in each district while at the same time placing a maximum cap on how much a CEO can make that is based on the average income earned at their company and the amount of people employed" "Redistribution of wealth until people are paid more" Good job people we are brainstorming like mad! |
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"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it." Adrian Rogers, 1931 Fallacy: There are multiple examples of where the government taxed the people, then created a structure that both improved the poor and the wealthy (IE divided the wealth and multiplied wealth overall in the end). One example of this is the canal and waterway system of the 1800's. even though most legislation at the time considered the project to connect the great lakes and create canals that flowed all over the north eastern part of our country today, as a total waste of government funds. After the project was completed, Industry boomed as companies were able to move products quicker and less expensively. This not only created more jobs initially, it lead to the industrial evolution and the later development of the railway system we have today. Another example of this is our military. this is a direct source of jobs for people, and the research and development of defensive tech, offensive tech, and nonlethal tech, has both funded major companies and revolutionized technology thus created new industries. Final example NASA. During the time NASA has existed, it has created new technology that they required to be able to do the things they needed to do. This technology is used in so many different sectors of industry that I personally don't know the entire impact that it has made. It has impacted bed technology, cars, safety instruments, nylon, mechanical pencils, fashion, the list continues... Still as far as I know, the major contribution to the fall of any government is the civil unrest of it's citizens. I do agree that the government does take from people to give to others by via taxation. I however don't agree that this is morally reprehensible. In fact I believe that it's totally necessary to keep the infrastructure of any nation working. We also seem to disagree on how much a nation should place on it's infrastructure, but that's ok. I just wish we can agree to disagree rather then visa versa. |
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In case it was missed the first time.
I see the fraud first hand all the time. Women living with men who have great jobs and get food stamps, medicaid, reduced or free housing, help with utilities. They live like royalty. The loop hole? They not married. Housing rarely does in-home inspections to verify what was reported is fact. Ya see, his income isn't reported. Other case. Woman lives with retired mother, has grown kids working. They live in the home, as well. Woman has no income. She gets welfare, medicaid for her children still in school. Lives off Mama's income and working children's. Doesn't bother reporting unearned income to welfare. Welfare doesn't do in-home inspections. Woman is fit to work. Chooses not to and/or, does under the table jobs. Tax audits, surprise in-home inspections, drug tests and voter ID should be required. If reports are made, beings it's a felony to defraud, a lie detector test should be administered. Mother, let's change that to parent. Sounds more PC and less discriminatory. Parent gets busted, the kids should be fostered out while Parent servers their time. In the cases of drugs. The parent should be given the option of accepting help. Foster out the kids for the 30 to 90 days of in-patient treatment. After treatment, one year probation with supervised visitation with the kids. Random UAs. Come back dirty one time, permanently off assistance and loses all rights to kids. Folks who keep giving birth to kids they know they'll never be able to afford should be prosecuted like folks who KNOWINGLY,pass on life threatening STDs. It's called, tough love. |
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Edited by
Serverousprime
on
Sat 09/20/14 03:36 PM
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In case it was missed the first time.
welfare fraud is illegal and prosecuted, much the same way that tax fraud and embezzlement and tax evasion are illegal for 'taxpayers' and corporations and prosecuted home inspections DO HAPPEN, even though every home everywhere isn't inspected shaming people into feeling less than due to their economic situation, or making them feel like they deserve no POWER in deciding upon a job and should just accept whatever is thrown their way,,, is no better than 'legislating the poor' into prosperity or making people feel like 'they don't have to work' or others feel like what they work for is being 'given to someone else' finances and the economy are actually both much more complicated than the clich�s and urban myths touch upon ,,the closest 'answer' to resolving or reducing the problem is the education that doesn't just train people up to be workhorses whose efforts line the pockets of 'taxpayers' while never affording them the income bracket to become one themselves but instead, trains up people on how to become amongst those 'taxpayers' that will continue to spit upon and belittle them for not 'contributing' what they deem to be enough or as much as they,,, we have to change the education so that people aren't merely wage earners for the owners,, but are potential taxpayers, with the potential to build personal wealth instead of struggling week to week for an 'income' and it wouldn't hurt to promote a culture that values human life BECAUSE it is human life and not because of its tax bracket,,, these aren't my words by the way. |
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"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it." Adrian Rogers, 1931 Fallacy: There are multiple examples of where the government taxed the people, then created a structure that both improved the poor and the wealthy (IE divided the wealth and multiplied wealth overall in the end). One example of this is the canal and waterway system of the 1800's. even though most legislation at the time considered the project to connect the great lakes and create canals that flowed all over the north eastern part of our country today, as a total waste of government funds. After the project was completed, Industry boomed as companies were able to move products quicker and less expensively. This not only created more jobs initially, it lead to the industrial evolution and the later development of the railway system we have today. Another example of this is our military. this is a direct source of jobs for people, and the research and development of defensive tech, offensive tech, and nonlethal tech, has both funded major companies and revolutionized technology thus created new industries. Final example NASA. During the time NASA has existed, it has created new technology that they required to be able to do the things they needed to do. This technology is used in so many different sectors of industry that I personally don't know the entire impact that it has made. It has impacted bed technology, cars, safety instruments, nylon, mechanical pencils, fashion, the list continues... Still as far as I know, the major contribution to the fall of any government is the civil unrest of it's citizens. I do agree that the government does take from people to give to others by via taxation. I however don't agree that this is morally reprehensible. In fact I believe that it's totally necessary to keep the infrastructure of any nation working. We also seem to disagree on how much a nation should place on it's infrastructure, but that's ok. I just wish we can agree to disagree rather then visa versa. What you are speaking of (aside from our military) is the generation of capital, not the redistribution of wealth. Yes, there are wise, and unwise ways our government spends money, but simply taxing people to pay others does not produce this capital. You may be onto something here though. Perhaps a new form of welfare in which people are required to work on our country's infrastructure and/or technological advancements. Maybe these supplementary jobs could be offered to the poor instead of outsourced. Also, I acknowledge that some taxation is necessary. But over-taxation merely spreads wealth to special interests. (The bailouts seem to come to mind.)I guess a good question to ask is, "How much taxation does it take to become immoral?" Meaning; Most middle class Americans pay roughly half(or slightly more than half) their income in taxes, in one form or another. How much of his or her own earned revenue should one be allowed to keep? |
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Edited by
Serverousprime
on
Sat 09/20/14 04:27 PM
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Sweet We have another way to assist the poor.
"Through the Generation of Capitol by via Government" I like your thoughts Nuts. (this isn't sarcasm I really do mean it) Redistribution of wealth is one of the topics that we're discussing here. We are also trying to find a better way then to just redistribute the wealth. Especially since our government is based on capitalism and many want to keep it that way. As for my previous post it is partially meant to describe the fallacy of the statement, ... You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it"
I did forget to mention one more example. However, people won't agree so I figured I would leave it out. If you wish me to include it then I will, but your not going to like it... |
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No you can't say it's a spiritual problem. because the statistics prove that. There is a limited amount of jobs available. not everyone can have one. approximately 1 out of 7 jobs is one that is below 10 per hour and thus considered under paid. Mainly because those in them can't make enough money. There are people that work 70 hours a week and can't pay the bills because of prices of rent, food, and other necessities. For them working is a neg sum game because they lost before it even started. All they have to live for is more debt, more despair, and more people telling them that they aren't making it because they don't believe enough. Wake up people the poor is real. And they won't go away by wishing them to. Oh and blaming the government doesn't fix the problem either. Hi Server....I just came in a couple of pages ago to read and absorb...and get to know you a little better ...It's easy to help the helpless because they have no need to cheat the system and it is impossible for them to hide the truth of their situation from their neighbor because they do not have the resources to do so...It becomes harder to figure out how to help a helpless person who really can help him or her self...That does not mean they should not BE HELPED, it only means charity is not only NOT THE ANSWER, it is the one thing that will exacerbate the problem by growing it over time....You keep asking others here to tell you what they would do to help the helpless, but you refuse to acknowledge their answers and you respond back to them sarcastically and condescendingly..Why?...All you manage to do is example one more, very serious, aspect of why the problem is growing...All of the proposed solutions I read address one or more "parts" of the whole...Starting somewhere in the middle only makes a big problem bigger..Government and its citizens need to begin at the beginning and work forward...Since ineffective government entitlement programs, government regs, irresponsible spending, fraud, and dirty politics are the root cause of escalating poverty...AND...because government has access to the monumental amount of money it will take to, not end poverty (that will never happen), but reduce it to a managable size, "helping the helpless' needs to begin there....Those that can work need jobs, those that are working need adequate wages...those that lack skills need education and training....The list of problems contained "in the whole" is long and much of it is the direct result of big government.....If you have laid out a plan to "help the helpless", tell me which page it's on, I'd like to read it...If you only have something sarcastic to say to me, don't...I care about this problem just as much as you do....
Thank you leigh for giving me perspective on this issue. While it wasn't for the most part my intention to be sarcastic, I do understand how people could perceive my words as such. I think that when I see others mocking someone else's beliefs it becomes a knee jerk reaction to be sarcastic back. I will do my best to no longer do that. I still don't find this issue a laughing mater though. With that said, my conscience dictates that when I see a fallacy in anyone's statement or argument, I have to point out that fallacy. This is something that I must continue, so that people reading this blog will be able to read it with an objective mind; see many different perspectives; hopefully change the misconceptions in their own schema's; and arrive at a logical or reasonable conclusion about the matter at hand. You are right that it would appear that I was neglecting others perspectives when it came this issue. Even though I may feel that how they presented it was degrading and disrespectful, that doesn't mean that they have a point to discuss (this also may have contributed to my snarky remarks so I apologize for this as well). With that said, you have made a good point that "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" is a valid way to fix the issue. So the options that are on this post so far are, "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" "Increasing Charitable donations that aren't involved in the government" "Education of the poor and advocating for increase of wages through civil disobedience or protests" "Increasing the minimum wage based on the relative poverty level in each district while at the same time placing a maximum cap on how much a CEO can make that is based on the average income earned at their company and the amount of people employed" "Redistribution of wealth until people are paid more" Good job people we are brainstorming like mad! Before anyone can come up with a workable solution to fighting poverty in the US they must understand HOW poverty undermines a nations economy...Human capital is the main driver of economic growth...Too much poverty reduces "normal" growth of human capital...Human capital consists of education, professional experience and good health...Once you accept that fact, it's easy to accept this one...Poverty thrives on lack of education, lack of professional experience and poor health...An uneducated and unhealthy workforce is an unproductive workforce...But that is only the tip of the iceberg...By threatening the economic health of a nation, poverty threatens everyones health...Poverty reduces participation in the labor market, it increases exposure to environmental hazards, it encourages risky coping behavior(s) like heavy smoking and drinking, unhealthy eating and drug use, it increases and adds to already existing mental health issues, it leads to a rise in property crime rates...All of these things work together to increase fixed living expenses by raising price scales for things like health and property insurance, security systems, transportation services, medical services and every other service or product you can think of...The welfare reform of the 90's is not working and now the "great recession" has expanded poverty to the suburbs...It's no longer confined to urban and rural areas...IMO, what really needs to happen is poorly designed welfare programs need to be redesigned to better assist the economy by targeting market failures (market failure happens when allocation of goods and services IS NOT EFFICIENT)...In other words, market efficiency goals and social goals need to work in conjunction to fight poverty...Keep and redesign only the most effective government welfare programs and ditch the rest...Target and create poverty sub-groups for additional benefits...Increase wages and work benefits...Make company day care facilities mandatory...Provide on the job training and company paid education...You misquoted me when you said, "Demolish the government's budget and start over."...Don't let it happen again!  ...What I am saying is a complete overhaul of the welfare system AND the job market is needed...Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty...
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Edited by
Serverousprime
on
Sat 09/20/14 05:26 PM
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Before anyone can come up with a workable solution to fighting poverty in the US they must understand HOW poverty undermines a nations economy...Human capital is the main driver of economic growth...Too much poverty reduces "normal" growth of human capital...Human capital consists of education, professional experience and good health...Once you accept that fact, it's easy to accept this one...Poverty thrives on lack of education, lack of professional experience and poor health...An uneducated and unhealthy workforce is an unproductive workforce...But that is only the tip of the iceberg...By threatening the economic health of a nation, poverty threatens everyones health...Poverty reduces participation in the labor market, it increases exposure to environmental hazards, it encourages risky coping behavior(s) like heavy smoking and drinking, unhealthy eating and drug use, it increases and adds to already existing mental health issues, it leads to a rise in property crime rates...All of these things work together to increase fixed living expenses by raising price scales for things like health and property insurance, security systems, transportation services, medical services and every other service or product you can think of...The welfare reform of the 90's is not working and now the "great recession" has expanded poverty to the suburbs...It's no longer confined to urban and rural areas...IMO, what really needs to happen is poorly designed welfare programs need to be redesigned to better assist the economy by targeting market failures (market failure happens when allocation of goods and services IS NOT EFFICIENT)...In other words, market efficiency goals and social goals need to work in conjunction to fight poverty...Keep and redesign only the most effective government welfare programs and ditch the rest...Target and create poverty sub-groups for additional benefits...Increase wages and work benefits...Make company day care facilities mandatory...Provide on the job training and company paid education...You misquoted me when you said, "Demolish the government's budget and start over."...Don't let it happen again! ...What I am saying is a complete overhaul of the welfare system AND the job market is needed...Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty...
Sorry was trying to paraphrase both your's and Conrad's ideas as I though they were the same. evidently they are different. thanks for the clarification. 
So to sum up so far there are... "Through the Generation of Capitol by via Government" "A complete overhaul of the welfare system AND the job market is needed...Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty" "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" "Increasing Charitable donations that aren't involved in the government" "Education of the poor and advocating for increase of wages through civil disobedience or protests" "Increasing the minimum wage based on the relative poverty level in each district while at the same time placing a maximum cap on how much a CEO can make that is based on the average income earned at their company and the amount of people employed" "Redistribution of wealth until people are paid more" |
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Before anyone can come up with a workable solution to fighting poverty in the US they must understand HOW poverty undermines a nations economy...Human capital is the main driver of economic growth...Too much poverty reduces "normal" growth of human capital...Human capital consists of education, professional experience and good health...Once you accept that fact, it's easy to accept this one...Poverty thrives on lack of education, lack of professional experience and poor health...An uneducated and unhealthy workforce is an unproductive workforce...But that is only the tip of the iceberg...By threatening the economic health of a nation, poverty threatens everyones health...Poverty reduces participation in the labor market, it increases exposure to environmental hazards, it encourages risky coping behavior(s) like heavy smoking and drinking, unhealthy eating and drug use, it increases and adds to already existing mental health issues, it leads to a rise in property crime rates...All of these things work together to increase fixed living expenses by raising price scales for things like health and property insurance, security systems, transportation services, medical services and every other service or product you can think of...The welfare reform of the 90's is not working and now the "great recession" has expanded poverty to the suburbs...It's no longer confined to urban and rural areas...IMO, what really needs to happen is poorly designed welfare programs need to be redesigned to better assist the economy by targeting market failures (market failure happens when allocation of goods and services IS NOT EFFICIENT)...In other words, market efficiency goals and social goals need to work in conjunction to fight poverty...Keep and redesign only the most effective government welfare programs and ditch the rest...Target and create poverty sub-groups for additional benefits...Increase wages and work benefits...Make company day care facilities mandatory...Provide on the job training and company paid education...You misquoted me when you said, "Demolish the government's budget and start over."...Don't let it happen again! ...What I am saying is a complete overhaul of the welfare system AND the job market is needed...Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty...
Sorry was trying to paraphrase both your's and Conrad's ideas as I though they were the same. evidently they are different. thanks for the clarification.
So to sum up so far there are... "Through the Generation of Capitol by via Government" "A complete overhaul of the welfare system AND the job market is needed...Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty" "Increasing Charitable donations that aren't involved in the government" "Education of the poor and advocating for increase of wages through civil disobedience or protests" "Increasing the minimum wage based on the relative poverty level in each district while at the same time placing a maximum cap on how much a CEO can make that is based on the average income earned at their company and the amount of people employed" "Redistribution of wealth until people are paid more" Fixed it for ya.... 
Which one of the above is yours Server?.... |
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Edited by
Serverousprime
on
Sat 09/20/14 06:37 PM
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The last two... I kind of like them but I wanted better ones. So I decided to use the mass intelligence for suggestions. So far it's working beautifully. Looks like myriad of wonderful options.
My brain was reading things in reverse had to change first to last. 
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job market is needed...<< Magicians can only do so much. Ya expectin someone to pull jobs out dae a$$es? Design new welfare based policies and market based policies that work in conjunction with each other to fight poverty"Only way to fight poverty is, those who chose not to be eliminated from the roles and forced to contribute. "Demolishing the governments budget and reworking it from scratch" WOW!! That suggestion, I believe is what some would call treason and is a threat to National Security. "Increasing Charitable donations that aren't involved in the government" Again. How can you expect folks to give more than they want to> Force 'em to?
"Education of the poor. Education is for those who want it. Irresponsible parents raise irresponsible ghetto rats. advocating for increase of wages through civil disobedience or protests"<<< More treasonous suggestions. Riots, race wars. "Increasing the minimum wage based on the relative poverty level in each district while at the same time placing a maximum cap on how much a CEO can make that is based on the average income earned at their company and the amount of people employed"<<It's socialist to demand employers pay a minimum. Also socialist to punish folks who educated themselves and succeed. What about the lazy? They don't want to help with the garden, you gonna feed them at harvest time? Little Red Hen. The Story of The Little Red Hen 
Once upon a time, a lamb, a cat, a pig, and a little red hen lived on an old farm on a flowery hill surrounded by fields of golden wheat. One day, the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat scattered in the barnyard. "Look what I've found!" she said to the other animals. "Who will help me plant these grains of wheat?" "Not I!" said the lamb. "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. She knew that seeds need water to grow tall and strong. "Who will help me water these seeds?" asked the Little Red Hen. "Not I!" said the lamb. "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen watered the soil and waited patiently for the wheat to grow. When the wheat was tall and golden, she knew it was ready to be cut. "Who will help me harvest the wheat?" asked the Little Red Hen. "Not I!" said the lamb. "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen's basket was soon filled with wheat. "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour?" asked the Little Red Hen. "Not I!" said the lamb "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The kind miller ground the wheat into powdery, velvety flour, and the Little Red Hen carried it home in a rough brown sack. "Who will help me make this flour into bread?" asked the Little Red Hen. "Not I!" said the lamb. "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The Little Red Hen mixed the flour into sticky dough and kneaded it into a smooth loaf. "Who will help me put this bread into the oven to bake?" asked the Little Red Hen. "Not I!" said the lamb. "Not I!" said the cat. "Not I!" said the pig. "Then I'll do it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And so she did. The kitchen filled with the delicious scent of baking bread, and the other animals came to see what was happening. The Little Red Hen took the warm, crusty loaf out of the oven, and set it on the table. "Who will help me eat this fresh, tasty bread?" asked the Little Red Hen. "I will!" said the lamb. "I will!" said the cat. "I will!" said the pig. "No, you will not," said the Little Red Hen. "You didn't help me plant it, or water it, or harvest it, or mill it, or bake it. I shall eat it myself!" And so she did. "Oh me!" said the lamb. "Oh my!" said the cat. "Oh me, oh my!" said the pig. The next time the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat, the lamb planted it in the rich, brown soil, the cat watered it carefully every day, and the pig harvested the wheat when it had grown tall and strong. When the dough was baked, together the animals made hot chocolate and ate the fresh, warm bread. It was delicious! The animals lived happily ever after, cooperating and helping every day. "Redistribution of wealth until people are paid more. <<Robin Hood was a fairy tale. 
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My friend and I were out creek riding today out in the bottoms in his all steel four wheel drive steel caged lifted 2005 lincoln WITH GM axle'S...
we had a case of beer between us today, and we had a good time running between producing fields and creek beds fields... we have known each other a long time through business dealings. I asked him if I could include him telling him I write about this stuff/// and he said ok.. told him I don't do facebookin ... he does it and he understands why I dont. He's a four wheel drive genius, an artist... he does johny cash type 4 wheel drive vehicles... you know the stuff 4 wheel caddys, old chevys he's even done a four wheel Rolls. He's a black guy with a big heart... but he's tired of being taxed and fee'd to death... in His business there is a price point. You have to meet the customers need and wants. We have had this conversation before and We Share the same set of techs and producers and mechanics that are dying off, some either keeling over at the kitchen table, dying in bed because of the stress,,having to eat fast because the people that are working for you drive you crazy and you have to do the work you are PAYING THEM TO DO because you cant find the talent you need and all you can find are people WHO HAVE TO BE TRAINED. There are signs up all over town for people to be hired that have skill sets... but all you get coming through the door are people that can;t even make a sandwich, or work at taco bell.. and all you hear is ME, ME ME, MY NAMES JIMMY WHAT YOU GONNA GIVE ME... Well Nothin CAT SCAT!!! leave the people alone who deserve the pay. So more venting here... when you have to go to the banks because because of a start up project... or even just changing banks because the last one screwed you... and trust me folks country banks are the best or small credit unions...the to big to fail ones want a wad of money up front, and there is a minimum and they are gonna attach fees too... especially if you are doing payroll..its taxes and fees and paperwork and crap on top of crap when all you are trying to do is put out a good product... Its called the price of doing business... Now I am NOT COMPLAINING... I DONT HAVE IT THAT BAD... but have been through all of this in the past... first you have too set your employees straight; let them know if you have growing pains; you have to fight city hall, the inspectors, the banks; the landlord unless you own your own land; and the accountant; unless You have the time; who wants to look at the books all time who may or may not be on your side.... and then pay the taxes and all the other nonsense that makes you mad and then even your most loyal people cant figure why you are pissed at least half the time I was blessed I had the same accountant for twenty years or more and he taught me a thing or two and you better know constitutional law... trust me... BUT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO RAISE WAGES WHEN WAGES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT THAT PARTICULAR PERSON CAN PRODUCE... EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT YOU CANT PAY THE BMW MECHANIC THE SAME AS THE MCDONALDS HACK. BUT THIS IS THE SOCIALIST PAP AND I for one am totally sick of hearing about class warfare and raise wages... If You TURN A PROFIT FOR YOU BOSS THEN... YOU CAN GET A RAISE... BUT IT AIN'T PERMANENT AND IT AIN'T WRITTEN IN STONE... IF YOU DONT KEEP PRODUCING... then hit the road. Young "Maam" 'JACK' YOU PEOPLE FORGET YOUR BOSS HAS TO TURN A PROFIT TO STAY IN BUSINESS AND PUT UP WITH ALL your NONSENCE AND HAVE to LISTEN TO YOU COMPLAINING OR TELLING STUPID STORIES TO COVER YOU BUTT...because you screwed up an expensive brand new piece of equipment,,, some of you know what I'm talkin about. I know about this stuff and I don't have it all that bad... But I have been through all of this... and I don't care if you don't like what I just said. So God Bless You and Have a Nice Day |
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Edited by
msharmony
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Sat 09/20/14 10:31 PM
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and it wouldn't hurt to promote a culture that values human life BECAUSE it is human life and not because of its tax bracket,,,  You're kidding with this statement, right?
Western culture is an advanced culture derived from REASON...The core ideals and values include individualism, rights, capitalism, and happiness...A pro-human life culture recognizes the requirements of proper human survival as the values of reason, individualism, happiness, rights and capitalism...Western culture IS pro-human culture...The extent to which a nation embraces Western culture is a measurement of HOW FREE IT IS, HOW PROSPEROUS IT IS, HOW MODERN IT IS and HOW PEACEFUL IT IS...All of these things are supportive of human life!...In the United States, Western culture DOMINATES!!... Im not kidding at all we read here people griping about how terrible it is that they see those who 'wont' work or 'contribute' able to eat or have a home or a frigging phone or internet but what I see, much more often than those failings is inhumane attitudes towards others mothers are valuable as are fathers in past years a father PRODUCED for his household, and mothers were valued BECAUSE They were mothers,,, they would be REVERED for the choice of staying to raise their kids at home but now, too many act as if if they haven't produced an income, and if someone other than a spouse has had to finance any part of their survival they are seen as moochers and constantly belittled by society,,,,,they only retain 'human' value if they have an 'earned income' position or happen to be fortunate to have 'unearned' income from some inheritance or working partner or investments they were educated about making,,,, children were revered because they were children, and understood to be largely blank slates EXCEPT for what someone else taught or instilled in them,,,, now , I see far too often that if they don't happen to grow up with the 'right' teaching, we are ready to toss them aside, label them negatively for a lifetime, and allow them to become societys trash while trying to dodge any of our own responsibility for TREATING them as such by just blaming their parents for how they 'turned out' we absolutely are a TAX BRACKET caste system, if you make below the amount to afford fed income tax, forget about being EQUAL to those who make enough or more,,,,,you are owned by them, and you 'owe' them just to have basics of life so many value owning guns more than they value making sure children eat and have safe shelter too many value their 'stuff' so much that they justify killing over it, too many use a gun to avoid a good old fashioned fist fight there is far too many in society who have become obsessed more with profit and instant gratification and money over humanity,,, and that above all will be the downfall of our 'advanced' civilization if we don't WAKE UP and learn again the things that should matter,,,,, like each other,,, |
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My friend and I were out creek riding today out in the bottoms in his all steel four wheel drive steel caged lifted 2005 lincoln WITH GM axle'S... we had a case of beer between us today, and we had a good time running between producing fields and creek beds fields... we have known each other a long time through business dealings. I asked him if I could include him telling him I write about this stuff/// and he said ok.. told him I don't do facebookin ... he does it and he understands why I dont. He's a four wheel drive genius, an artist... he does johny cash type 4 wheel drive vehicles... you know the stuff 4 wheel caddys, old chevys he's even done a four wheel Rolls. He's a black guy with a big heart... but he's tired of being taxed and fee'd to death... in His business there is a price point. You have to meet the customers need and wants. We have had this conversation before and We Share the same set of techs and producers and mechanics that are dying off, some either keeling over at the kitchen table, dying in bed because of the stress,,having to eat fast because the people that are working for you drive you crazy and you have to do the work you are PAYING THEM TO DO because you cant find the talent you need and all you can find are people WHO HAVE TO BE TRAINED. There are signs up all over town for people to be hired that have skill sets... but all you get coming through the door are people that can;t even make a sandwich, or work at taco bell.. and all you hear is ME, ME ME, MY NAMES JIMMY WHAT YOU GONNA GIVE ME... Well Nothin CAT SCAT!!! leave the people alone who deserve the pay. So more venting here... when you have to go to the banks because because of a start up project... or even just changing banks because the last one screwed you... and trust me folks country banks are the best or small credit unions...the to big to fail ones want a wad of money up front, and there is a minimum and they are gonna attach fees too... especially if you are doing payroll..its taxes and fees and paperwork and crap on top of crap when all you are trying to do is put out a good product... Its called the price of doing business... Now I am NOT COMPLAINING... I DONT HAVE IT THAT BAD... but have been through all of this in the past... first you have too set your employees straight; let them know if you have growing pains; you have to fight city hall, the inspectors, the banks; the landlord unless you own your own land; and the accountant; unless You have the time; who wants to look at the books all time who may or may not be on your side.... and then pay the taxes and all the other nonsense that makes you mad and then even your most loyal people cant figure why you are pissed at least half the time I was blessed I had the same accountant for twenty years or more and he taught me a thing or two and you better know constitutional law... trust me... BUT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO RAISE WAGES WHEN WAGES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT THAT PARTICULAR PERSON CAN PRODUCE... EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT YOU CANT PAY THE BMW MECHANIC THE SAME AS THE MCDONALDS HACK. BUT THIS IS THE SOCIALIST PAP AND I for one am totally sick of hearing about class warfare and raise wages... If You TURN A PROFIT FOR YOU BOSS THEN... YOU CAN GET A RAISE... BUT IT AIN'T PERMANENT AND IT AIN'T WRITTEN IN STONE... IF YOU DONT KEEP PRODUCING... then hit the road. Young "Maam" 'JACK' YOU PEOPLE FORGET YOUR BOSS HAS TO TURN A PROFIT TO STAY IN BUSINESS AND PUT UP WITH ALL your NONSENCE AND HAVE to LISTEN TO YOU COMPLAINING OR TELLING STUPID STORIES TO COVER YOU BUTT...because you screwed up an expensive brand new piece of equipment,,, some of you know what I'm talkin about. I know about this stuff and I don't have it all that bad... But I have been through all of this... and I don't care if you don't like what I just said. So God Bless You and Have a Nice Day |
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My friend and I were out creek riding today out in the bottoms in his all steel four wheel drive steel caged lifted 2005 lincoln WITH GM axle'S... we had a case of beer between us today, and we had a good time running between producing fields and creek beds fields... we have known each other a long time through business dealings. I asked him if I could include him telling him I write about this stuff/// and he said ok.. told him I don't do facebookin ... he does it and he understands why I dont. He's a four wheel drive genius, an artist... he does johny cash type 4 wheel drive vehicles... you know the stuff 4 wheel caddys, old chevys he's even done a four wheel Rolls. He's a black guy with a big heart... but he's tired of being taxed and fee'd to death... in His business there is a price point. You have to meet the customers need and wants. We have had this conversation before and We Share the same set of techs and producers and mechanics that are dying off, some either keeling over at the kitchen table, dying in bed because of the stress,,having to eat fast because the people that are working for you drive you crazy and you have to do the work you are PAYING THEM TO DO because you cant find the talent you need and all you can find are people WHO HAVE TO BE TRAINED. There are signs up all over town for people to be hired that have skill sets... but all you get coming through the door are people that can;t even make a sandwich, or work at taco bell.. and all you hear is ME, ME ME, MY NAMES JIMMY WHAT YOU GONNA GIVE ME... Well Nothin CAT SCAT!!! leave the people alone who deserve the pay. So more venting here... when you have to go to the banks because because of a start up project... or even just changing banks because the last one screwed you... and trust me folks country banks are the best or small credit unions...the to big to fail ones want a wad of money up front, and there is a minimum and they are gonna attach fees too... especially if you are doing payroll..its taxes and fees and paperwork and crap on top of crap when all you are trying to do is put out a good product... Its called the price of doing business... Now I am NOT COMPLAINING... I DONT HAVE IT THAT BAD... but have been through all of this in the past... first you have too set your employees straight; let them know if you have growing pains; you have to fight city hall, the inspectors, the banks; the landlord unless you own your own land; and the accountant; unless You have the time; who wants to look at the books all time who may or may not be on your side.... and then pay the taxes and all the other nonsense that makes you mad and then even your most loyal people cant figure why you are pissed at least half the time I was blessed I had the same accountant for twenty years or more and he taught me a thing or two and you better know constitutional law... trust me... BUT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO RAISE WAGES WHEN WAGES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT THAT PARTICULAR PERSON CAN PRODUCE... EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT YOU CANT PAY THE BMW MECHANIC THE SAME AS THE MCDONALDS HACK. BUT THIS IS THE SOCIALIST PAP AND I for one am totally sick of hearing about class warfare and raise wages... If You TURN A PROFIT FOR YOU BOSS THEN... YOU CAN GET A RAISE... BUT IT AIN'T PERMANENT AND IT AIN'T WRITTEN IN STONE... IF YOU DONT KEEP PRODUCING... then hit the road. Young "Maam" 'JACK' YOU PEOPLE FORGET YOUR BOSS HAS TO TURN A PROFIT TO STAY IN BUSINESS AND PUT UP WITH ALL your NONSENCE AND HAVE to LISTEN TO YOU COMPLAINING OR TELLING STUPID STORIES TO COVER YOU BUTT...because you screwed up an expensive brand new piece of equipment,,, some of you know what I'm talkin about. I know about this stuff and I don't have it all that bad... But I have been through all of this... and I don't care if you don't like what I just said. So God Bless You and Have a Nice Day That is a very tear jerking story. It really hit at the heart stings. I agree with you that we need to take into account the little business guys and gals. Let me try to explain my views this way. I know that business owners are trying to make a profit. I know that it those who work, and do their best deserve the better pay. I know that it is hard to find people that are truly qualified to work in the field they want to be or are in. I know that the jobs that require less education should be paid less. I also know that as people are paid better they can afford to be happy. I also know that as people are paid better that they are more likelier to like the work they do and want to do better. I also know that as more people are pulled out of the dregs and into society, they are able to and will want to spend more on things like detail work, that new watch that they wanted but never could afford, healthier foods, and they can afford to better themselves and look to the future. Yes we get PAID for the WORK we do. What is just as well known is that YOU GET what YOU PAY for. Cheap labor comes at the cost of quality work. Having said that, I hope you the best of luck and prosperity for your business. |
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I do fine... it take s years to learn this stuff.. your just a pup ...
you just keep yappin |
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My friend and I were out creek riding today out in the bottoms in his all steel four wheel drive steel caged lifted 2005 lincoln WITH GM axle'S... we had a case of beer between us today, and we had a good time running between producing fields and creek beds fields... we have known each other a long time through business dealings. I asked him if I could include him telling him I write about this stuff/// and he said ok.. told him I don't do facebookin ... he does it and he understands why I dont. He's a four wheel drive genius, an artist... he does johny cash type 4 wheel drive vehicles... you know the stuff 4 wheel caddys, old chevys he's even done a four wheel Rolls. He's a black guy with a big heart... but he's tired of being taxed and fee'd to death... in His business there is a price point. You have to meet the customers need and wants. We have had this conversation before and We Share the same set of techs and producers and mechanics that are dying off, some either keeling over at the kitchen table, dying in bed because of the stress,,having to eat fast because the people that are working for you drive you crazy and you have to do the work you are PAYING THEM TO DO because you cant find the talent you need and all you can find are people WHO HAVE TO BE TRAINED. There are signs up all over town for people to be hired that have skill sets... but all you get coming through the door are people that can;t even make a sandwich, or work at taco bell.. and all you hear is ME, ME ME, MY NAMES JIMMY WHAT YOU GONNA GIVE ME... Well Nothin CAT SCAT!!! leave the people alone who deserve the pay. So more venting here... when you have to go to the banks because because of a start up project... or even just changing banks because the last one screwed you... and trust me folks country banks are the best or small credit unions...the to big to fail ones want a wad of money up front, and there is a minimum and they are gonna attach fees too... especially if you are doing payroll..its taxes and fees and paperwork and crap on top of crap when all you are trying to do is put out a good product... Its called the price of doing business... Now I am NOT COMPLAINING... I DONT HAVE IT THAT BAD... but have been through all of this in the past... first you have too set your employees straight; let them know if you have growing pains; you have to fight city hall, the inspectors, the banks; the landlord unless you own your own land; and the accountant; unless You have the time; who wants to look at the books all time who may or may not be on your side.... and then pay the taxes and all the other nonsense that makes you mad and then even your most loyal people cant figure why you are pissed at least half the time I was blessed I had the same accountant for twenty years or more and he taught me a thing or two and you better know constitutional law... trust me... BUT WE ARE TIRED OF BEING TOLD WE HAVE TO RAISE WAGES WHEN WAGES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT THAT PARTICULAR PERSON CAN PRODUCE... EACH PERSON IS DIFFERENT YOU CANT PAY THE BMW MECHANIC THE SAME AS THE MCDONALDS HACK. BUT THIS IS THE SOCIALIST PAP AND I for one am totally sick of hearing about class warfare and raise wages... If You TURN A PROFIT FOR YOU BOSS THEN... YOU CAN GET A RAISE... BUT IT AIN'T PERMANENT AND IT AIN'T WRITTEN IN STONE... IF YOU DONT KEEP PRODUCING... then hit the road. Young "Maam" 'JACK' YOU PEOPLE FORGET YOUR BOSS HAS TO TURN A PROFIT TO STAY IN BUSINESS AND PUT UP WITH ALL your NONSENCE AND HAVE to LISTEN TO YOU COMPLAINING OR TELLING STUPID STORIES TO COVER YOU BUTT...because you screwed up an expensive brand new piece of equipment,,, some of you know what I'm talkin about. I know about this stuff and I don't have it all that bad... But I have been through all of this... and I don't care if you don't like what I just said. So God Bless You and Have a Nice Day That is a very tear jerking story. It really hit at the heart stings. I agree with you that we need to take into account the little business guys and gals. Let me try to explain my views this way. I know that business owners are trying to make a profit. I know that it those who work, and do their best deserve the better pay. I know that it is hard to find people that are truly qualified to work in the field they want to be or are in. I know that the jobs that require less education should be paid less. I also know that as people are paid better they can afford to be happy. I also know that as people are paid better that they are more likelier to like the work they do and want to do better. I also know that as more people are pulled out of the dregs and into society, they are able to and will want to spend more on things like detail work, that new watch that they wanted but never could afford, healthier foods, and they can afford to better themselves and look to the future. Yes we get PAID for the WORK we do. What is just as well known is that YOU GET what YOU PAY for. Cheap labor comes at the cost of quality work. Having said that, I hope you the best of luck and prosperity for your business. I swear Im not flirting, but my mom would love ya,,lol she is a senior citizen retired from a position where she was over THOUSANDS , hiring, firing, and managing accts and she totally has discussed with me on any number of occasions this 'flip reality' that many don't understand of getting what you pay for ,, and getting better quality work when the pay is better quality pay ,,,, |
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I would Honored to meet or even talk to your MOM,,,thanks crayons... aka
detail |
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if capping income limits createivity and 'job creation',, why is it back in the seventies when the wealthy earned LESS of the money, we had LOWER unemployment <b>and since the seventies , while their share grew,, unemployment also got larger</b> lets try paying people decent wages,, that is the difference between the 'taxpayer' and the 'non'.. not morals or productivity, but WAGES, as the tax system is based upon income brackets lets try creating those jobs that these wealthy allegedly can create more of while their income exponentially grows lets evolve from our slave worker system that tells people take what we offer you and don't complain and don't be upset that you cant participate and don't matter because you are in the wrong income bracket,, create the environment where people can earn the income necessary to pay taxes, and the gap wouldn't be so large as to the sexists who continue to blame women having babies ,, women have been having babies since time began,,, it really cant continue to be the scapegoat for all social problems,,,and BY THE WAY,, none of them have managed to do it without an all too willing man,,,, 1970 the US population was 203 million today it is 314 million. That is over 50% increase + we also have robotics. You can't will say there is a correlation to wages. How exactly does this relate? What correlation do you speak of? Between what to wages exactly? How can you say that there is no correlation? Can you give me the metadata? What information are you using that shows no correlation? Are you saying that there is no relation to the 70's versus now because of new technology and because of a difference in population? I am saying you can't prove a correlation when there are so many other uncontrolled factors. You were trying to imply if the wealthiest made less money then we would have more employment. I disagree and am saying you can't prove that correlation. Wages could be higher, but that is different than the number of jobs. |
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if capping income limits createivity and 'job creation',, why is it back in the seventies when the wealthy earned LESS of the money, we had LOWER unemployment <b>and since the seventies , while their share grew,, unemployment also got larger</b> lets try paying people decent wages,, that is the difference between the 'taxpayer' and the 'non'.. not morals or productivity, but WAGES, as the tax system is based upon income brackets lets try creating those jobs that these wealthy allegedly can create more of while their income exponentially grows lets evolve from our slave worker system that tells people take what we offer you and don't complain and don't be upset that you cant participate and don't matter because you are in the wrong income bracket,, create the environment where people can earn the income necessary to pay taxes, and the gap wouldn't be so large as to the sexists who continue to blame women having babies ,, women have been having babies since time began,,, it really cant continue to be the scapegoat for all social problems,,,and BY THE WAY,, none of them have managed to do it without an all too willing man,,,, 1970 the US population was 203 million today it is 314 million. That is over 50% increase + we also have robotics. You can't will say there is a correlation to wages. How exactly does this relate? What correlation do you speak of? Between what to wages exactly? How can you say that there is no correlation? Can you give me the metadata? What information are you using that shows no correlation? Are you saying that there is no relation to the 70's versus now because of new technology and because of a difference in population? I am saying you can't prove a correlation when there are so many other uncontrolled factors. You were trying to imply if the wealthiest made less money then we would have more employment. I disagree and am saying you can't prove that correlation. Wages could be higher, but that is different than the number of jobs. I see... So the issue is that of the definition of correlation. Here's the thing. Correlations means that there is a relation between one statistical data set to another statistical data set. E.G. there is a correlation between gender and height of people. Does this mean there aren't mitigating factors involved like race or age? No. All a correlation states that there is a trend weather positive, negative, or neutral. In this specific situation there could be correlation between increase in population and lower wages, increase in technology and lower wages, or even increase in medical costs and lower wages. As I haven't seen the data my self I can't say that there is or isn't. However, correlations between other factors doesn't decrease the validity of a previous set correlation. What would decrease the validity is the actual statistical data taken, how it was taken, the randomness of the data for the sample pool (less randomness reduces validity), and objectivity of the people writing the conclusions. Furthermore, your issue seems like you feel that we are purporting causation (as in wealthier earning less "causes" lower unemployment rates). While I can't say for who wrote the original quote, I can say that interpreting the words in that way would cause even me to have issues with the statement. I still read it as a correlation, and since correlation doesn't prove causation due to uncontrolled factors. Then you would be right is saying that you can't prove causation until you deal with those factors and experiment. I hope that helps clear up the issue.
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