Topic: Are Morals Real?
FearandLoathing's photo
Thu 08/29/13 11:29 PM
I don't think so, but I've been through something very few have been through...My life essentially started at 14, everything before that is beyond the scope of my memory. This obviously puts me in a very, very different situation; everything I was, believed, thought, is all of a sudden nothing. Off-track here; but neither of my parents knew I had no recollection of before I was 14 until I was 21 and told them.

Anyway; I had to develop everything I am today from the ground up at 14, two years or so away from where, in a generally accepted idea, my development process would end. Not sure exactly, but I think they say you start developing into the person you are at around 9 all the way until you are 16; I was missing 5 integral years of that identity. My moral scope was built throughout life, from then until now, and still it grows...It has been created by things that I view as beneficial, or not beneficial to civilization; I weigh them based on how much I know about them, and if I don't know much about them I read about it until I am satisfied with the knowledge I've gained.

And still they are developing, some even change with the introduction of new information or insight; as opposed to what many might think, I actually do want what is best for our world...Even if it is a bit weird at times.smokin

lionsbrew's photo
Fri 08/30/13 02:17 AM
Morals well. Mine like most people were developed in the environment I was raised in. Then further developed with the life experiences gained. To me everything in life is a learning experience. Every person I meet every situation faced. Looking at those around me whether learning what to or what not to do to gain a desired effect. Theres an old saying that goes " Do as they do and you will be as they are". So those people I looked up to growing up are whom I wanted to emulate in myself. Whether trying to be like those characters in the books I read or the people i.r.l like my family, friends and enemies.

Now to put into perspective where I come from. I was raised in a large catholic family. Both my parents are still to this day together and very much in love. I have five brothers and two sisters.We were never rich or even middle class for that matter. The basis of all of my early morals came from the churches teachings of right and wrong. Things like the ten commandments and the golden rule. I was an alter boy and a boyscout. As a teen I rebelled and learned some things in life aren't so black and white and how interpreting the gray areas of life left me with a lot of questions. Then later in romantic relationships,my son being born and growing continues to help my own growth as a person.

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:08 AM

The Little League Motto: I trust in God, I love my country, and I will respect its laws. I will play fair and strive to win. But win or lose, I will always do my best.

Learned it at a ballpark when I was just a little girl. Still holds true today. Life is just my giant baseball field now.

shades
:thumbsup:

agree! When I mentioned "other adult mentors" as influential, that defintely included athletic coaches. I have had several over the years and the traditional values of teamwork and respect were hugely influenced by my participation in athletics and I feel neglectful that I did not credit the influence of sports participation sooner.

of course that was before the days of athletes being primadonnas who can be bought by the highest bidder...that was not part of athlete culture when I was a college athlete.

misswright's photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:18 AM


The Little League Motto: I trust in God, I love my country, and I will respect its laws. I will play fair and strive to win. But win or lose, I will always do my best.

Learned it at a ballpark when I was just a little girl. Still holds true today. Life is just my giant baseball field now.

shades
:thumbsup:

agree! When I mentioned "other adult mentors" as influential, that defintely included athletic coaches. I have had several over the years and the traditional values of teamwork and respect were hugely influenced by my participation in athletics and I feel neglectful that I did not credit the influence of sports participation sooner.

of course that was before the days of athletes being primadonnas who can be bought by the highest bidder...that was not part of athlete culture when I was a college athlete.


:thumbsup:

explode for that bold part. Makes me ill...that's not what sports should be about!!!

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:21 AM

I don't think so, but I've been through something very few have been through...My life essentially started at 14, everything before that is beyond the scope of my memory. This obviously puts me in a very, very different situation; everything I was, believed, thought, is all of a sudden nothing. Off-track here; but neither of my parents knew I had no recollection of before I was 14 until I was 21 and told them.

Anyway; I had to develop everything I am today from the ground up at 14, two years or so away from where, in a generally accepted idea, my development process would end. Not sure exactly, but I think they say you start developing into the person you are at around 9 all the way until you are 16; I was missing 5 integral years of that identity. My moral scope was built throughout life, from then until now, and still it grows...It has been created by things that I view as beneficial, or not beneficial to civilization; I weigh them based on how much I know about them, and if I don't know much about them I read about it until I am satisfied with the knowledge I've gained.

And still they are developing, some even change with the introduction of new information or insight; as opposed to what many might think, I actually do want what is best for our world...Even if it is a bit weird at times.smokin


a bit weird much of the time I'd say. interesting insights. we start to develop "who we are" in the womb as a baby not yet born will respond to it's mother's voice. So you lost a little more time, but then no one really remembers much before the age of 4 or so. Not in concious memory anyway . I like the flexibility that comes through in your explanation of learning and potentially modifying a belief. it's important that a set of moral standards not become stagnant and insisted upon simply because they exist or an authority like church or a parent "says so."

where does that value, to think for oneself and develop a certain objectivity (vs a rote acceptance of authority) come from? me, heh, I am a child of the 60s and raised in a culture where critical thinking was highly valued. How 'bout you?

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:33 AM

Morals well. Mine like most people were developed in the environment I was raised in. Then further developed with the life experiences gained. To me everything in life is a learning experience. Every person I meet every situation faced. Looking at those around me whether learning what to or what not to do to gain a desired effect. Theres an old saying that goes " Do as they do and you will be as they are". So those people I looked up to growing up are whom I wanted to emulate in myself. Whether trying to be like those characters in the books I read or the people i.r.l like my family, friends and enemies.

Now to put into perspective where I come from. I was raised in a large catholic family. Both my parents are still to this day together and very much in love. I have five brothers and two sisters.We were never rich or even middle class for that matter. The basis of all of my early morals came from the churches teachings of right and wrong. Things like the ten commandments and the golden rule. I was an alter boy and a boyscout. As a teen I rebelled and learned some things in life aren't so black and white and how interpreting the gray areas of life left me with a lot of questions. Then later in romantic relationships,my son being born and growing continues to help my own growth as a person.


right, childrearing redirects the moral compass because now we are setting the standard for our child or children and most of us want to do a good job of it....certainly we are moral beings before we are parents. having the kid causes one to take stock though. In the community where i was raised rebellion was viewed as a normal rite of passage and in some ways very much encouraged. I am catholic also but was raised in a Quaker college town in a protestant family. I value highly the quaker influence because of the independent thinking it does encourage. and most or many of my values are influenced by quakers. The catholicism is valuable to me not so much as an authority on right /wrong. I admire catholicism for it's flexibility and acceptance that has been my experience there. thanks for sharing LB. good stories, good stories :)flowerforyou

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:37 AM

For sure they're real, but are other people's? I never question my own, because I know I'll stick with what I choose to be like. The only thing that WOULD make me question my own morals, is if I started having an affair with anyone. That would be a big slap in the face for me. I have very traditional morals. I make laughing the number one priority :)


I tend to be traditional also, but with a twist...lol. nothing wrong with laughter. we could all use a bit more of it. something like having an affair, to me, relates back to what Leigh said about choices. When people make those choices it is often without an examination of the potential consequences....rather a choice to ignore the potential consequences.

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 05:42 AM



The Little League Motto: I trust in God, I love my country, and I will respect its laws. I will play fair and strive to win. But win or lose, I will always do my best.

Learned it at a ballpark when I was just a little girl. Still holds true today. Life is just my giant baseball field now.

shades
:thumbsup:

agree! When I mentioned "other adult mentors" as influential, that defintely included athletic coaches. I have had several over the years and the traditional values of teamwork and respect were hugely influenced by my participation in athletics and I feel neglectful that I did not credit the influence of sports participation sooner.

of course that was before the days of athletes being primadonnas who can be bought by the highest bidder...that was not part of athlete culture when I was a college athlete.


:thumbsup:

explode for that bold part. Makes me ill...that's not what sports should be about!!!


I agree. I don't even pay much attention to the industry any more because it so far afield (sorry for the pun lol) from what is meaningful to me.....I do like a double or triple A bazzball game now & then tho :)

Candiapples's photo
Fri 08/30/13 06:29 AM

Interesting perspective! If you want a psychological explanation see Lawrence Kohlbergs stages of moral development wherein he describes the stages of moral development from simple right/wrong to an abstract reasoning with universal ethics. Surprised to see an intelligent inquiry on this dubious site Regards..

Bites her tongue

Candiapples's photo
Fri 08/30/13 06:34 AM
Can you imagine a world without morals and ethics? Most of us would be barbaric..

msharmony's photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:17 AM

Can you imagine a world without morals and ethics? Most of us would be barbaric..


I can imagine a world where the three morals are

'don't kill' (unless you or your STUFF are threatened)

don't steal

and I got mines and don't have to care how you get yours,,,,


,,pretty much seems american culture is headed there anyway,,,

lionsbrew's photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:23 AM
Edited by lionsbrew on Fri 08/30/13 07:23 AM
How bout Aesop's Fables anyone else get read those as a kid?

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:26 AM

How bout Aesop's Fables anyone else get read those as a kid?


Yep, those were my favorites in school.

msharmony's photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:28 AM

How bout Aesop's Fables anyone else get read those as a kid?


loved Aesop
and school house rock too, though that was more educational,,,lol

willing2's photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:37 AM
I liked the Little Red Hen.

Wonder why that one got censored?

Toodygirl5's photo
Fri 08/30/13 10:04 AM
Edited by Toodygirl5 on Fri 08/30/13 10:11 AM
I am not influenced by Society, because they are setting their own
rules on what is right and wrong. Which is turning out to be, Any thing goes for many people.

My morals are definitely rooted in Christianity and my parents. Also encouraged by family members and friends, who have good moral character.

FearandLoathing's photo
Fri 08/30/13 11:27 AM


I don't think so, but I've been through something very few have been through...My life essentially started at 14, everything before that is beyond the scope of my memory. This obviously puts me in a very, very different situation; everything I was, believed, thought, is all of a sudden nothing. Off-track here; but neither of my parents knew I had no recollection of before I was 14 until I was 21 and told them.

Anyway; I had to develop everything I am today from the ground up at 14, two years or so away from where, in a generally accepted idea, my development process would end. Not sure exactly, but I think they say you start developing into the person you are at around 9 all the way until you are 16; I was missing 5 integral years of that identity. My moral scope was built throughout life, from then until now, and still it grows...It has been created by things that I view as beneficial, or not beneficial to civilization; I weigh them based on how much I know about them, and if I don't know much about them I read about it until I am satisfied with the knowledge I've gained.

And still they are developing, some even change with the introduction of new information or insight; as opposed to what many might think, I actually do want what is best for our world...Even if it is a bit weird at times.smokin


a bit weird much of the time I'd say. interesting insights. we start to develop "who we are" in the womb as a baby not yet born will respond to it's mother's voice. So you lost a little more time, but then no one really remembers much before the age of 4 or so. Not in concious memory anyway . I like the flexibility that comes through in your explanation of learning and potentially modifying a belief. it's important that a set of moral standards not become stagnant and insisted upon simply because they exist or an authority like church or a parent "says so."

where does that value, to think for oneself and develop a certain objectivity (vs a rote acceptance of authority) come from? me, heh, I am a child of the 60s and raised in a culture where critical thinking was highly valued. How 'bout you?


Mine came from an empty memory and a whole lot of self-education...I learned a lot from people older than me, mostly people that grew up in the 50's and 60's. I like the revolutionary type of thinking that exploded out of that era, I just don't like how the people went about their explosion.

That said though, I don't feel I am a revolutionary...I'm more of a Renaissance Man.smokin

FearandLoathing's photo
Fri 08/30/13 11:54 AM
Oh, and to my remark about development age...Like I said, I'm not entirely sure on the starting age; I do believe it was around 9 years old though that you begin to develop your moral and ethical code, this is where you would apply what you have learned to create a character and thought process that will eventually develop into your ethics and morals.

Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development...Sorry, bit abrupt, but originally I was saying how I couldn't find the article and found it by mistake. His study started with age 10 and up I believe, so 10 would be what I meant instead of 9.

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:42 PM

Oh, and to my remark about development age...Like I said, I'm not entirely sure on the starting age; I do believe it was around 9 years old though that you begin to develop your moral and ethical code, this is where you would apply what you have learned to create a character and thought process that will eventually develop into your ethics and morals.

Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development...Sorry, bit abrupt, but originally I was saying how I couldn't find the article and found it by mistake. His study started with age 10 and up I believe, so 10 would be what I meant instead of 9.


that's OK no one is here to hold anyone's feet to the fire...at least not a thread I start....don't go in for that kinda thingdrinker

I think scholarly works are important guideposts. I think even young kids can learn morals and it is a mistake to wait to model or teach values to children based on a presumed age of readiness...even a 3 or 4 yo or younger can understand not to take or break something that belongs to another or learn not to physically harm another


sorry for the rant I was a preschool teacher for quite awhile :)

no photo
Fri 08/30/13 07:43 PM

Can you imagine a world without morals and ethics? Most of us would be barbaric..


ooooo....there are subcultures out there that lean in that direction....trust you don't wanna get too closenoway