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| Topic: Are Morals Real? | |
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Oh, and to my remark about development age...Like I said, I'm not entirely sure on the starting age; I do believe it was around 9 years old though that you begin to develop your moral and ethical code, this is where you would apply what you have learned to create a character and thought process that will eventually develop into your ethics and morals. Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development...Sorry, bit abrupt, but originally I was saying how I couldn't find the article and found it by mistake. His study started with age 10 and up I believe, so 10 would be what I meant instead of 9. that's OK no one is here to hold anyone's feet to the fire...at least not a thread I start....don't go in for that kinda thing  I think scholarly works are important guideposts. I think even young kids can learn morals and it is a mistake to wait to model or teach values to children based on a presumed age of readiness...even a 3 or 4 yo or younger can understand not to take or break something that belongs to another or learn not to physically harm another sorry for the rant I was a preschool teacher for quite awhile :) Sure...But even then, it still wouldn't apply to me. |
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Edited by
KinBarrie
on
Fri 08/30/13 08:05 PM
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I learned compassion from my parent's. In my experience
It seems that people that really never had to face a whole lot of adversity in their lives, really don't seem to know how to be a compassionate person. I didn't go to church growing up. My parent's were catholic and were forced to go as kids. They fell out of going, when they got into their teens. Still, my Dad had told me about the ten commandments and some other things about the Bible. And the Bible itself is a book about how to be an ethical and moral person. I'd seen my Dad go through some awful things with his severe rheumatoid arthritis, since he was in his mid-thirties. And I myself know what it was like to go through difficult and hard times. I think I'd learned some valuable lessons. And these lessons didn't center on selfishness. I joined the Salvation Army, and go to their church every Sunday. I'm planning on doing some charity work at the mission and store, here in Barrie, Ont. |
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I don't have a "written in stone" type of moral code. I operate more on a moral compass based on what I feel seems right and honorable to ME, then I hold myself to those standards and behaviors and strive to afford others the same.
I think everything and everyone I've been exposed to throughout my entire life, good and bad examples both, have played a part in forming my ideals. |
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Oh, and to my remark about development age...Like I said, I'm not entirely sure on the starting age; I do believe it was around 9 years old though that you begin to develop your moral and ethical code, this is where you would apply what you have learned to create a character and thought process that will eventually develop into your ethics and morals. Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development...Sorry, bit abrupt, but originally I was saying how I couldn't find the article and found it by mistake. His study started with age 10 and up I believe, so 10 would be what I meant instead of 9. that's OK no one is here to hold anyone's feet to the fire...at least not a thread I start....don't go in for that kinda thing I think scholarly works are important guideposts. I think even young kids can learn morals and it is a mistake to wait to model or teach values to children based on a presumed age of readiness...even a 3 or 4 yo or younger can understand not to take or break something that belongs to another or learn not to physically harm another sorry for the rant I was a preschool teacher for quite awhile :) Sure...But even then, it still wouldn't apply to me. your experience is unique. I did not mean that it would apply to you. ...just my experience with young children. someone who has had challeneges at an early age, as you apparently have, and still sees the possibility of the world being a good place...that's exceptional Fear. You have a gift, but then, I have known that since 2008. We could learn alot from you...because you can do that...still see the world as a good place. :) |
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I learned compassion from my parent's. In my experience It seems that people that really never had to face a whole lot of adversity in their lives, really don't seem to know how to be a compassionate person. I didn't go to church growing up. My parent's were catholic and were forced to go as kids. They fell out of going, when they got into their teens. Still, my Dad had told me about the ten commandments and some other things about the Bible. And the Bible itself is a book about how to be an ethical and moral person. I'd seen my Dad go through some awful things with his severe rheumatoid arthritis, since he was in his mid-thirties. And I myself know what it was like to go through difficult and hard times. I think I'd learned some valuable lessons. And these lessons didn't center on selfishness. I joined the Salvation Army, and go to their church every Sunday. I'm planning on doing some charity work at the mission and store, here in Barrie, Ont. beautiful story. thank you. I wish for the best for your fufillment in your endeavors! The salvation army is a wonderful organization. I give to the red pots every Christmas...in fact some stores here banned them from bell ringing at Christmas... I chose my grocery store because they are one of the few retail outlets that still lets them ask for donations at Christmas (Kroger Co. of Cincinnati Ohio)  I do all my christmas meal sho shopping there & all holiday food shopping there for that reason. |
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I don't have a "written in stone" type of moral code. I operate more on a moral compass based on what I feel seems right and honorable to ME, then I hold myself to those standards and behaviors and strive to afford others the same. I think everything and everyone I've been exposed to throughout my entire life, good and bad examples both, have played a part in forming my ideals. yes! marvelous observation! Where does your compass come from...do you think it's inherent? ( kind of a nature vs nurture question) |
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Edited by
Traumer
on
Sat 08/31/13 08:45 PM
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I came to the conclusion long ago, that it (Life) seems to work out best if one is an objective nihilist; baring that, subjective is also ok. One can sum it up as live and let die.
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I was wondering what your topic was all about when you put it as "Are morales real?" Had me expecting you were questioning if morality still existed or something like that.
Personally I do have morales. Like don't steal, cheat, murder, lie and other such things. I was raised in a very religious family and it has had a very strong effect on my moral code. I was religious as a child. but being treated like **** by so many people who I went to church with, people my age or close to it. I eventually got sick of their hypocrisy and stopped going to church. I haven't been to church since and I can't say I feel any different now then I did then. I have never felt like I was in a holy place either in a temple or a church. Place are pretty and that is all they are. My moral code is not set in stone. I am a realistic person and as I learn more about people and that not everything that works for one person works for another. Like not everyone can live a life of being married with one person. Some people can have multiple lovers and not be bothered by it. Even watching their lover be with another person. I try not to judge people for wanting things that I don't want unless it's destructive to others. Like I hate, loath, detest pedophiles. I think they should be executed.Strong feelings perhaps. But I don't see that obvious pedophiles are ever going to stop doing what they do. Unless one happens to marry a person who acts and sounds like a child. But even then they are likely to abuse the children they have. It is simply the way they are wired. |
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I came to the conclusion long ago, that it (Life) seems to work out best if one is an objective nihilist; baring that, subjective is also ok. One can sum it up as live and let die. what is the difference between a subjective nilihist and an objective nilihist? how long ago ...like last week or in a previous milenium....I mean that is kinda relative...lol 
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I was wondering what your topic was all about when you put it as "Are morales real?" Had me expecting you were questioning if morality still existed or something like that. Personally I do have morales. Like don't steal, cheat, murder, lie and other such things. I was raised in a very religious family and it has had a very strong effect on my moral code. I was religious as a child. but being treated like **** by so many people who I went to church with, people my age or close to it. I eventually got sick of their hypocrisy and stopped going to church. I haven't been to church since and I can't say I feel any different now then I did then. I have never felt like I was in a holy place either in a temple or a church. Place are pretty and that is all they are. My moral code is not set in stone. I am a realistic person and as I learn more about people and that not everything that works for one person works for another. Like not everyone can live a life of being married with one person. Some people can have multiple lovers and not be bothered by it. Even watching their lover be with another person. I try not to judge people for wanting things that I don't want unless it's destructive to others. Like I hate, loath, detest pedophiles. I think they should be executed.Strong feelings perhaps. But I don't see that obvious pedophiles are ever going to stop doing what they do. Unless one happens to marry a person who acts and sounds like a child. But even then they are likely to abuse the children they have. It is simply the way they are wired.   good to hear from you! I totally agree on the church thing. church is where ever you are when you feel close to god, or your spiritual self. I had a good friend tho who is a priest explain to me one time tho that yes, people in churches are hypocritical sometimes and that is because they are human. they are in church to improve the same way a sick person goes to the DR to get well. so I thought that was pretty cool as far as explanations go. still, when I do go to a church (which I haven't for years) I spend most of my time staring at the stained glass windows in awe of their beauty and selsdom hear sermons at all. embarrassing, a little, when someone asks what I thought of it (the sermon) lol as far as your question about the title. it really is not meant to be cryptic. when I ask if morals are real, I guess I am asking if folks do take them seriously any more. sometimes the world we live in seems very ammoral.....like sometimes folk will only do the "right" thing if it will benefit them in some way, or if they will be penalized if they don;t....very low level thought in my judgement |
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Most of my morals have come from my intuition, I am a realist and I believe in consequences, not so much right or wrong but I prefer to do right until someone wrongs me. Like Miranda Lambert says, "I need to repent" lol. I come from an affluent society but it lacks morals its a town where repubs and Christians rule the land. I've seen the corruption and therefore I do not rely on mentors, just myself.
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I was wondering what your topic was all about when you put it as "Are morales real?" Had me expecting you were questioning if morality still existed or something like that. Personally I do have morales. Like don't steal, cheat, murder, lie and other such things. I was raised in a very religious family and it has had a very strong effect on my moral code. I was religious as a child. but being treated like **** by so many people who I went to church with, people my age or close to it. I eventually got sick of their hypocrisy and stopped going to church. I haven't been to church since and I can't say I feel any different now then I did then. I have never felt like I was in a holy place either in a temple or a church. Place are pretty and that is all they are. My moral code is not set in stone. I am a realistic person and as I learn more about people and that not everything that works for one person works for another. Like not everyone can live a life of being married with one person. Some people can have multiple lovers and not be bothered by it. Even watching their lover be with another person. I try not to judge people for wanting things that I don't want unless it's destructive to others. Like I hate, loath, detest pedophiles. I think they should be executed.Strong feelings perhaps. But I don't see that obvious pedophiles are ever going to stop doing what they do. Unless one happens to marry a person who acts and sounds like a child. But even then they are likely to abuse the children they have. It is simply the way they are wired. good to hear from you! I totally agree on the church thing. church is where ever you are when you feel close to god, or your spiritual self. I had a good friend tho who is a priest explain to me one time tho that yes, people in churches are hypocritical sometimes and that is because they are human. they are in church to improve the same way a sick person goes to the DR to get well. so I thought that was pretty cool as far as explanations go. still, when I do go to a church (which I haven't for years) I spend most of my time staring at the stained glass windows in awe of their beauty and selsdom hear sermons at all. embarrassing, a little, when someone asks what I thought of it (the sermon) lol as far as your question about the title. it really is not meant to be cryptic. when I ask if morals are real, I guess I am asking if folks do take them seriously any more. sometimes the world we live in seems very ammoral.....like sometimes folk will only do the "right" thing if it will benefit them in some way, or if they will be penalized if they don;t....very low level thought in my judgement There are always going to be those people who are selfish and only do things if they see a reward or have other motives. They have always been around and always will be. Don't let the bad ruin your opinion of those who are good. The idea of someone going to church to get well sounds good. But as I have stated in other places. The man makes the church. The church does not make the man. If the person is just simply bad then then no amount of going to church is going to change that. J. Golden Kimball, a leader in the Mormon church, once said something to the extent of you can baptize an evil person over and over again and it won't make any difference, unless you keep him under. If you want to learn about a very entertaining person. I would suggest researching him. hahaha |
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I don't have a "written in stone" type of moral code. I operate more on a moral compass based on what I feel seems right and honorable to ME, then I hold myself to those standards and behaviors and strive to afford others the same. I think everything and everyone I've been exposed to throughout my entire life, good and bad examples both, have played a part in forming my ideals. yes! marvelous observation! Where does your compass come from...do you think it's inherent? ( kind of a nature vs nurture question) I feel that my own moral compass is based mostly on my conscious efforts to become the person I want to be than anything else. Or in other words, it's based on my personality, which I believe to be partly inherent and partly learned from studying other's behaviors while developing into the person I chose to become.
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So...I just skipped past all the weak crap with other people quoting some random authors iron clad opinions..
I also skipped past other people quoting or reposting same said weak schitt. I just go with what I know. Right is right and wrong is wrong..and whatever weakassed excuse people gotta tell themselves to make it ok to be a dousche...don't fly with me. We are adults..not kids. At this point in life...anyone else's opinion of morality is lost. Either your parents failed to raise a good person and should be dragged out...beaten without mercy and thrown down a well... Or your parents raised you to be kind, compassionate and decent. Quoting someone else to validate what you are or are not...is the ultimate weak rationalization for what you are or are not. Screw everyone else's opionions on morality...you suck or you dont. No one is to blame for your actions ...but you. |
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I was wondering what your topic was all about when you put it as "Are morales real?" Had me expecting you were questioning if morality still existed or something like that. Personally I do have morales. Like don't steal, cheat, murder, lie and other such things. I was raised in a very religious family and it has had a very strong effect on my moral code. I was religious as a child. but being treated like **** by so many people who I went to church with, people my age or close to it. I eventually got sick of their hypocrisy and stopped going to church. I haven't been to church since and I can't say I feel any different now then I did then. I have never felt like I was in a holy place either in a temple or a church. Place are pretty and that is all they are. My moral code is not set in stone. I am a realistic person and as I learn more about people and that not everything that works for one person works for another. Like not everyone can live a life of being married with one person. Some people can have multiple lovers and not be bothered by it. Even watching their lover be with another person. I try not to judge people for wanting things that I don't want unless it's destructive to others. Like I hate, loath, detest pedophiles. I think they should be executed.Strong feelings perhaps. But I don't see that obvious pedophiles are ever going to stop doing what they do. Unless one happens to marry a person who acts and sounds like a child. But even then they are likely to abuse the children they have. It is simply the way they are wired. good to hear from you! I totally agree on the church thing. church is where ever you are when you feel close to god, or your spiritual self. I had a good friend tho who is a priest explain to me one time tho that yes, people in churches are hypocritical sometimes and that is because they are human. they are in church to improve the same way a sick person goes to the DR to get well. so I thought that was pretty cool as far as explanations go. still, when I do go to a church (which I haven't for years) I spend most of my time staring at the stained glass windows in awe of their beauty and selsdom hear sermons at all. embarrassing, a little, when someone asks what I thought of it (the sermon) lol as far as your question about the title. it really is not meant to be cryptic. when I ask if morals are real, I guess I am asking if folks do take them seriously any more. sometimes the world we live in seems very ammoral.....like sometimes folk will only do the "right" thing if it will benefit them in some way, or if they will be penalized if they don;t....very low level thought in my judgement There are always going to be those people who are selfish and only do things if they see a reward or have other motives. They have always been around and always will be. Don't let the bad ruin your opinion of those who are good. The idea of someone going to church to get well sounds good. But as I have stated in other places. The man makes the church. The church does not make the man. If the person is just simply bad then then no amount of going to church is going to change that. J. Golden Kimball, a leader in the Mormon church, once said something to the extent of you can baptize an evil person over and over again and it won't make any difference, unless you keep him under. If you want to learn about a very entertaining person. I would suggest researching him. hahaha seems some good advice in there. Yes, church is a construct of man, not god. Jesus said where ever 2 or more of you gather in my name, there is love. I see no catherdral required there..lol. I am not especially interested in the mormom church...good grief I have enough christian sects in my background....I am really not looking to add to that list. nonetheless thank you for the suggestion as, who knows, I may at some future time want the info, or someone else on here may benefit!
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Most of my morals have come from my intuition, I am a realist and I believe in consequences, not so much right or wrong but I prefer to do right until someone wrongs me. Like Miranda Lambert says, "I need to repent" lol. I come from an affluent society but it lacks morals its a town where repubs and Christians rule the land. I've seen the corruption and therefore I do not rely on mentors, just myself. miranda also says: "You're runnin' with the fastest girl in town..." lol but you must have received or realized insights from something or someone? insights genrally aren't created in a vacuum....how did your insights begin as relates to choices....just after the fact from consequences alone? |
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I don't have a "written in stone" type of moral code. I operate more on a moral compass based on what I feel seems right and honorable to ME, then I hold myself to those standards and behaviors and strive to afford others the same. I think everything and everyone I've been exposed to throughout my entire life, good and bad examples both, have played a part in forming my ideals. yes! marvelous observation! Where does your compass come from...do you think it's inherent? ( kind of a nature vs nurture question) I feel that my own moral compass is based mostly on my conscious efforts to become the person I want to be than anything else. Or in other words, it's based on my personality, which I believe to be partly inherent and partly learned from studying other's behaviors while developing into the person I chose to become. uh huh....don't give me that moral compass stuff girl....you just whisked that football out from under charlie brown AGAIN>>>   lol he's such a sucka
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So...I just skipped past all the weak crap with other people quoting some random authors iron clad opinions.. I also skipped past other people quoting or reposting same said weak schitt. I just go with what I know. Right is right and wrong is wrong..and whatever weakassed excuse people gotta tell themselves to make it ok to be a dousche...don't fly with me. We are adults..not kids. At this point in life...anyone else's opinion of morality is lost. Either your parents failed to raise a good person and should be dragged out...beaten without mercy and thrown down a well... Or your parents raised you to be kind, compassionate and decent. Quoting someone else to validate what you are or are not...is the ultimate weak rationalization for what you are or are not. Screw everyone else's opionions on morality...you suck or you dont. No one is to blame for your actions ...but you. did you have any other adult mentors as a kid? I know you admired your dad as I have seen a few of your other posts regarding your family. My parents taught me some valuable moral lessons, but I also had a few other influential adults in my life who provided additional insights....and honestly, were a little better with positive feedback than my parents were. I think I leaarned more about good choices when I was affirmed for doing so by adults I admired. |
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I came to the conclusion long ago, that it (Life) seems to work out best if one is an objective nihilist; baring that, subjective is also ok. One can sum it up as live and let die. what is the difference between a subjective nilihist and an objective nilihist? how long ago ...like last week or in a previous milenium....I mean that is kinda relative...lol Subjective nihilism is of a personal choice, sometimes based on pre existing bias/ prejudice; Objective is simply taking a larger view of what choices there are to rejecting any type of moralistic viewpoint/ stand; an asymmetric point of view/ interpretation. By the time I was 18 I was a committed nihilist towards most things; beliefs that are run-of-the mill dull, boring, pretentious and what Mr. and Mrs. Joe Sixpak believed in, like Mom, Apple pie and all the rest of what to me were 'bourgeois trailer park morality and beliefs; this .of course led directly to my embracing the anarchist's outlook. I was 'free at last'! Thank you for the flower(blush) same to you gurl
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I came to the conclusion long ago, that it (Life) seems to work out best if one is an objective nihilist; baring that, subjective is also ok. One can sum it up as live and let die. what is the difference between a subjective nilihist and an objective nilihist? how long ago ...like last week or in a previous milenium....I mean that is kinda relative...lol Subjective nihilism is of a personal choice, sometimes based on pre existing bias/ prejudice; Objective is simply taking a larger view of what choices there are to rejecting any type of moralistic viewpoint/ stand; an asymmetric point of view/ interpretation. By the time I was 18 I was a committed nihilist towards most things; beliefs that are run-of-the mill dull, boring, pretentious and what Mr. and Mrs. Joe Sixpak believed in, like Mom, Apple pie and all the rest of what to me were 'bourgeois trailer park morality and beliefs; this .of course led directly to my embracing the anarchist's outlook. I was 'free at last'! Thank you for the flower(blush) same to you gurl you are most welcome....I am a mom/apple pie type tho :) but no trailer parks tho  here ya go...getcha blushing now   I fine it amusing that a nilhilist blushes
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