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Topic: Are Morals Real?
no photo
Thu 08/29/13 06:47 AM
Edited by sweetestgirl11 on Thu 08/29/13 06:50 AM
Do you have specific identifable moral standards? If so where did you learn or develop them? Were you influenced by anyone or any particular existing moral code(s) ....parents , religion or some such.

Do your moral standards differentiate right from wrong for you, or are you more relativistic ( is that even a word lol)?


my morals are definitely rooted in Chrisianity and my parents were influential but so were other adult mentors. I have also absorbed some morals from religions other than Christianity as new expamded ways of thinking.

I tend to be relativistic & pick & choose to develop my own moral code. I seldom think in terms of "wrong or right" unless its a math problem. (regarding everyday situations, not heinous crime)

How about you?

sybariticguy's photo
Thu 08/29/13 06:55 AM
Interesting perspective! If you want a psychological explanation see Lawrence Kohlbergs stages of moral development wherein he describes the stages of moral development from simple right/wrong to an abstract reasoning with universal ethics. Surprised to see an intelligent inquiry on this dubious site Regards..

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 07:06 AM

Interesting perspective! If you want a psychological explanation see Lawrence Kohlbergs stages of moral development wherein he describes the stages of moral development from simple right/wrong to an abstract reasoning with universal ethics. Surprised to see an intelligent inquiry on this dubious site Regards..


we have actually had similar topics to this one on here in tha past with a variety of responses (and arguments lol). I am not seeking reading material, but someone may find your suggestion useful. Thanks.

The topic is, as a brief reminder, a query as to your own indvidual moral code and its development, rather than a search for reading materials or theories on moral development.

although the developmental psychology aspects are interesting and fit in quite well, thank you.flowerforyou

metalwing's photo
Thu 08/29/13 07:16 AM
I was raised by terrific parents but had a turd for a brother. The contrast growing was clear as he was the perfect example of what "not to do" and the morals involved in many situations were burned deep in my soul. I (for example) think the ten commandments are a good way to start. I don't think you should obey them because it is the word of God. I think you should obey them because it is the right thing to do.

msharmony's photo
Thu 08/29/13 07:16 AM

my specific morals have to do with the big picture of how we are all connected

my idea of 'right' and 'wrong' are more often about 'good choice' and 'bad choice'

which is about, for me, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health


my ideas come from role models, experience, observation, and my religion

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 07:24 AM
Ooooooo, I think I'm going to love reading this thread my sweet, sweet girl!flowerforyou ....Can't help but wonder what provoked you to create itbigsmile

Identifiable moral standards?...Yes, definitely...Unlike you, mine are not "rooted" in Christianity, but I think attending church religiously:tongue: during my childhood helped prepare me for a spiritual lifestyle built upon a foundation of self awareness rather than religious beliefs.... The most important aspect of my self awareness centers around the power "actions" have to positively or negatively affect the people we come in contact with on a daily basis....By paying close attention to "why" i do the things I do (good and bad), I learn to be a better person...It's not always fun and it's certainly isn't easy to acknowledge and work to change my wrong doings, but there is great reward in recognizing and correcting my mistakes and weaknesses before they are pointed out to me by others....Hope this makes sense cause it's not easy to put into words...My moral guidelines are pretty basic...Treat others the way you want to be treated and stay true to yourself....When I practice these two things, everything seems to flow and fall into place...When I stray, things quickly turn to chit....Does this mean I am a moral relativist? laugh

willing2's photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:20 AM
Like sweet, beautiful, sexy, bodacious, Ms Leigh, I also use conscience to help keep me squared away.

I seek truth.
I have fun.
I have strong work ethics. As in, when I was looking for my "dream job",I took what was laid at my feet til the ONE came along.
I am human. Therefore, I err.
I will not ask more of another than I am willing to do myself.

Yada, yada, yada!

Great topic, sweet girl. flowerforyou

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:32 AM
Edited by Conrad_73 on Thu 08/29/13 08:36 AM
Morality



What is morality, or ethics? It is a code of values to guide man’s choices and actions—the choices and actions that determine the purpose and the course of his life. Ethics, as a science, deals with discovering and defining such a code.

The first question that has to be answered, as a precondition of any attempt to define, to judge or to accept any specific system of ethics, is: Why does man need a code of values?

Let me stress this. The first question is not: What particular code of values should man accept? The first question is: Does man need values at all—and why?


Ethics is an objective, metaphysical necessity of man’s survival. . . .

I quote from Galt’s speech: “Man has been called a rational being, but rationality is a matter of choice—and the alternative his nature offers him is: rational being or suicidal animal. Man has to be man—by choice; he has to hold his life as a value—by choice; he has to learn to sustain it—by choice; he has to discover the values it requires and practice his virtues—by choice. A code of values accepted by choice is a code of morality.”

The standard of value of the Objectivist ethics—the standard by which one judges what is good or evil—is man’s life, or: that which is required for man’s survival qua man.

Since reason is man’s basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil. Since everything man needs has to be discovered by his own mind and produced by his own effort, the two essentials of the method of survival proper to a rational being are: thinking and productive work.


Sweep aside those parasites of subsidized classrooms, who live on the profits of the mind of others and proclaim that man needs no morality, no values, no code of behavior. They, who pose as scientists and claim that man is only an animal, do not grant him inclusion in the law of existence they have granted to the lowest of insects. They recognize that every living species has a way of survival demanded by its nature, they do not claim that a fish can live out of water or that a dog can live without its sense of smell—but man, they claim, the most complex of beings, man can survive in any way whatever, man has no identity, no nature, and there’s no practical reason why he cannot live with his means of survival destroyed, with his mind throttled and placed at the disposal of any orders they might care to issue.

Sweep aside those hatred-eaten mystics, who pose as friends of humanity and preach that the highest virtue man can practice is to hold his own life as of no value. Do they tell you that the purpose of morality is to curb man’s instinct of self-preservation? It is for the purpose of self-preservation that man needs a code of morality. The only man who desires to be moral is the man who desires to live.


If I were to speak your kind of language, I would say that man’s only moral commandment is: Thou shalt think. But a “moral commandment” is a contradiction in terms. The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments.

My morality, the morality of reason, is contained in a single axiom: existence exists—and in a single choice: to live. The rest proceeds from these. To live, man must hold three things as the supreme and ruling values of his life: Reason—Purpose—Self-esteem. Reason, as his only tool of knowledge—Purpose, as his choice of the happiness which that tool must proceed to achieve—Self-esteem, as his inviolate certainty that his mind is competent to think and his person is worthy of happiness, which means: is worthy of living. These three values imply and require all of man’s virtues, and all his virtues pertain to the relation of existence and consciousness: rationality, independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, pride.


Morality pertains only to the sphere of man’s free will—only to those actions which are open to his choice.


A sin without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality. If man is evil by birth, he has no will, no power to change it; if he has no will, he can be neither good nor evil; a robot is amoral. To hold, as man’s sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality.


The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.


In spite of all their irrationalities, inconsistencies, hypocrisies and evasions, the majority of men will not act, in major issues, without a sense of being morally right and will not oppose the morality they have accepted. They will break it, they will cheat on it, but they will not oppose it; and when they break it, they take the blame on themselves. The power of morality is the greatest of all intellectual powers—and mankind’s tragedy lies in the fact that the vicious moral code men have accepted destroys them by means of the best within them.

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/morality.html

misswright's photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:32 AM
The Little League Motto: I trust in God, I love my country, and I will respect its laws. I will play fair and strive to win. But win or lose, I will always do my best.

Learned it at a ballpark when I was just a little girl. Still holds true today. Life is just my giant baseball field now.

shades

oldhippie1952's photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:43 AM
I learned from my grandparents, cub scouts and church.

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:46 AM
I have been "fortunate" in my life to have had several adult mentors, positive and negative, who have helped me to interpret the world as I see it now. I am a logical person who has observed and noted consequences to everyday actions/decisions, some logical and most not even close.

I consider myself spiritual in lifestyle as I challenge myself to be honest and true in my daily activities. I appreciate that we all have our paths and burdens to walk with and my goal is to bring a heartfelt smile to shine a little light in someone's darkness! flowerforyou

Geezzzz! I sound like a real sap, don't I? :tongue:

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:46 AM

Like sweet, beautiful, sexy, bodacious, Ms Leigh, I also use conscience to help keep me squared away.

I seek truth.
I have fun.
I have strong work ethics. As in, when I was looking for my "dream job",I took what was laid at my feet til the ONE came along.
I am human. Therefore, I err.
I will not ask more of another than I am willing to do myself.

Yada, yada, yada!

Great topic, sweet girl. flowerforyou


Aún lo llevo en el corazón!!... Gracias!flowerforyou

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:49 AM
yes,they are very real,and can make you or break you!

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 08:55 AM

yes,they are very real,and can make you or break you!


:thumbsup:

waving Hey stranger!flowerforyou

willing2's photo
Thu 08/29/13 09:11 AM
Gracias a ti, hermosa.

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 08/29/13 10:18 AM


yes,they are very real,and can make you or break you!


:thumbsup:

waving Hey stranger!flowerforyou
Hello!
How are you doing?:thumbsup: flowers waving

Shy_Emo_chick's photo
Thu 08/29/13 11:13 AM
For sure they're real, but are other people's? I never question my own, because I know I'll stick with what I choose to be like. The only thing that WOULD make me question my own morals, is if I started having an affair with anyone. That would be a big slap in the face for me. I have very traditional morals. I make laughing the number one priority :)

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 09:10 PM

I was raised by terrific parents but had a turd for a brother. The contrast growing was clear as he was the perfect example of what "not to do" and the morals involved in many situations were burned deep in my soul. I (for example) think the ten commandments are a good way to start. I don't think you should obey them because it is the word of God. I think you should obey them because it is the right thing to do.


yes I think the Commandments are far more significant than some realize. The first time in human history that a relgion commanded us to love, not to kill, not to wallow in envy. This still sets us apart in many ways from some other religions. I take it a step further.

Where the Commandment says thou shall not kill. I interpret that as not just a blood letting...but also the small ways we kill day to day....with an unkind word or gesture...to avoid that sort of death

To not steal....not just physical possessions but also the wealth of one's person by belitting them or denying them the right to be who they are or stealing the dignity of another in any way


and so on. So yes, I agree, and feel there is even more to the commandments that we can understand: the not fully utilized human mind :)

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 09:14 PM


my specific morals have to do with the big picture of how we are all connected

my idea of 'right' and 'wrong' are more often about 'good choice' and 'bad choice'

which is about, for me, physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health


my ideas come from role models, experience, observation, and my religion


thank you harmony. As I am sure you have also noted, we do talk on here about "choices." I think many choices we make have a basis in out inherent morality even when we do not realize it at first thought. Thanks for bringing choice into the discussion. moral choices....I read somewhere once that the happiest people are those whose choices best reflect a consistency with their stated moral belief.

no photo
Thu 08/29/13 09:24 PM

Ooooooo, I think I'm going to love reading this thread my sweet, sweet girl!flowerforyou ....Can't help but wonder what provoked you to create itbigsmile

Identifiable moral standards?...Yes, definitely...Unlike you, mine are not "rooted" in Christianity, but I think attending church religiously:tongue: during my childhood helped prepare me for a spiritual lifestyle built upon a foundation of self awareness rather than religious beliefs.... The most important aspect of my self awareness centers around the power "actions" have to positively or negatively affect the people we come in contact with on a daily basis....By paying close attention to "why" i do the things I do (good and bad), I learn to be a better person...It's not always fun and it's certainly isn't easy to acknowledge and work to change my wrong doings, but there is great reward in recognizing and correcting my mistakes and weaknesses before they are pointed out to me by others....Hope this makes sense cause it's not easy to put into words...My moral guidelines are pretty basic...Treat others the way you want to be treated and stay true to yourself....When I practice these two things, everything seems to flow and fall into place...When I stray, things quickly turn to chit....Does this mean I am a moral relativist? laugh


here's a bit of relativity. I am committed to responding to all posts in a thread I create. It reflects a strong moral value to show appreciation, gratitude and an openess to communication toward others.

I took one look at Conrad's post and decided to make that commitment relative to how long I have left to walk God's green earth. I think the travail of reading Conrad's post would put me in my grave... were I able to read the whole thing before meeting my maker...lol

(just messin' with ya Conrad :)lollaugh :tongue: :wink:

it does sound like you have made a concious choice to "do no harm." Coincidentally that is an integral part of my own morality too.

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